Rebuilding the Team

After watching the extended highlights of the Swans game, it struck me what an enormous job MM has on his hands if he wants to improve our style of play next season.

Zero composure, panic passing all over the field and no discernible pattern of play. A bit like watching an Under 11's schoolboy team.

I love the attitude he's instilled into the players and the passion he still has for the game but for the club to progress we absolutely must add a higher degree of skill to our play. All should become clearer when we discover his transfer targets for next season.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

After watching the extended highlights of the Swans game, it struck me what an enormous job MM has on his hands if he wants to improve our style of play next season.

Zero composure, panic passing all over the field and no discernible pattern of play. A bit like watching an Under 11's schoolboy team.

I love the attitude he's instilled into the players and the passion he still has for the game but for the club to progress we absolutely must add a higher degree of skill to our play. All should become clearer when we discover his transfer targets for next season.

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51% successful pass rate is appalling. And Mick will be well aware of that.

The issue is that even the decent passing players have been groomed by successive managers to hoof the ball.

Changing that mentality and approach doesn't change overnight.

However, to be positive, if we added more composure, passing and technical ability to the team we would be a real force when you combine those attributes with the passion, determination, workrate and set-pieces.

I imagine that will mainly be resolved on the training pitch and pre season with a few additions.

we've been saying this for the best part of 10 years so I don't think too much is going to change in the foreseeable future

the club needs a massive restructure from top to bottom if we are going to be a threat in playing the passing game . How much I'd love to see us play like wolves and Leicester down the stadium when we are allowed back in

then again some posters like the way we play now ! each to there own

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Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird

51% successful pass rate is appalling. And Mick will be well aware of that.

The issue is that even the decent passing players have been groomed by successive managers to hoof the ball.

Changing that mentality and approach doesn't change overnight.

However, to be positive, if we added more composure, passing and technical ability to the team we would be a real force when you combine those attributes with the passion, determination, workrate and set-pieces.

I imagine that will mainly be resolved on the training pitch and pre season with a few additions.

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Who do you think are the decent passers of a ball that we've got?

I will tell you the ones I think are NOT capable of passing well. No matter if they were instructed by the manager to put their foot on the ball and pick a pass, the following would always struggle....
Vaulks, Ralls, Flint, Morrison, Nelson, Bacuna are all poor at passing. If they had it in them to pass well we would have seen it by now.

I think mm record since taking over has been amazing

We have won a shedload of games

And we recently won a local Derby against a top 3 side heavily tipped for promotion

That will do for me

The bad-passing affliction seems to have been picked up by Marlon Pack. He used to be able to see a pass and occasionally successfully completed one or two but now he does very much the same as the rest of the side, either a hopeful punt forward or a pass to a man in the wrong colour shirt.

There seems to constant talk of changing the style of play. I get every fan wants to see beautiful football but I think some people need to accept that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I think any dramatic change in style would mean being a lot less successful and would no way guarantee getting back to where we have been for the past 10 years.

Can’t see any rebuilding this summer. Replace the loans with more loans and buy Keiffer mark 2 that’ll be the limit

I think the difference is going into the summer we have a few talented youngsters who will claim a start in the squad of 18
Soon we could be watching Phillips, Ng Sang Bagan Brown Colwell, Harris all in the first team, and who knows what other promising youngsters are coming through.
I wonder what Sang would look like playing in the middle of the park as he looks decent on the ball and composed, the loan players will I expect all go back to their parent clubs, I don't think we'd be in a position to buy any of them?
Maybe sell Smithies and buy back Etheridge and the 2-3 million pounds difference goes straight into a war chest for Mick.
One things for certain if there is any change in style it will certainly be an evolution rather than revolution under Mick.
His current record demonstrates that he knows exactly what he is doing to give a team a fighting chance of the top 6 finish for next year

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Originally Posted by olderblue

I think the difference is going into the summer we have a few talented youngsters who will claim a start in the squad of 18
Soon we could be watching Phillips, Ng Sang Bagan Brown Colwell, Harris all in the first team, and who knows what other promising youngsters are coming through.
I wonder what Sang would look like playing in the middle of the park as he looks decent on the ball and composed, the loan players will I expect all go back to their parent clubs, I don't think we'd be in a position to buy any of them?
Maybe sell Smithies and buy back Etheridge and the 2-3 million pounds difference goes straight into a war chest for Mick.
One things for certain if there is any change in style it will certainly be an evolution rather than revolution under Mick.
His current record demonstrates that he knows exactly what he is doing to give a team a fighting chance of the top 6 finish for next year

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Agree with a lot of that but why on earth would we buy back Etheridge?

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Originally Posted by mazadona10

There seems to constant talk of changing the style of play. I get every fan wants to see beautiful football but I think some people need to accept that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I think any dramatic change in style would mean being a lot less successful and would no way guarantee getting back to where we have been for the past 10 years.

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I'd suggest it's more changing our skillset instead of changing the style. Nothing wrong with defending like we did for 45 minutes on Saturday just as long as you have the capacity to play long passes (or several short passes) to get you up the pitch at the right moment rather than just hoofing it away.

How much of that was down to player fatigue though?

Let’s see what our squad looks like when we go back to seven subs - I’m not convinced that our desire to include youngsters will be so strong then.

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Originally Posted by mazadona10

There seems to constant talk of changing the style of play. I get every fan wants to see beautiful football but I think some people need to accept that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I think any dramatic change in style would mean being a lot less successful and would no way guarantee getting back to where we have been for the past 10 years.

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I don't think every fan wants to see beautiful football. On the contrary, this board provides clear evidence every day that plenty of fans are more than happy with the kind of football City are currently playing, which is anything but beautiful.

As regards your suggestion that a change of style would result in the team being a lot less successful, I guess that would depend on how you actually measure success.

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Originally Posted by surge

How much of that was down to player fatigue though?

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There was an incident towards the end of the first half on Saturday when the ball fell to Ciaran Brown on the left-hand side of the penalty area following a Swansea corner. He carried the ball five or six yards and then simply whacked it forty or fifty yards into the opposition half. He made no attempt whatsoever to play the ball to a teammate. I don't think that was down to fatigue.

Mick McCarthy has inherited a squad full of a certain type of player who play the game a certain type of way. Whether he has any desire to change the current footballing philosophy at the club will become apparent during the summer, but based on what we've seen so far I can't believe any change in style will be significant.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I don't think every fan wants to see beautiful football. On the contrary, this board provides clear evidence every day that plenty of fans are more than happy with the kind of football City are currently playing, which is anything but beautiful.

As regards your suggestion that a change of style would result in the team being a lot less successful, I guess that would depend on how you actually measure success.

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Beautiful football ? Just football would be something..

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Originally Posted by mazadona10

There seems to constant talk of changing the style of play. I get every fan wants to see beautiful football but I think some people need to accept that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I think any dramatic change in style would mean being a lot less successful and would no way guarantee getting back to where we have been for the past 10 years.

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True, a change of style will not guarantee success but in my initial post I stated that we would need to add a higher degree of skill to our play in order for us to progress and I stand by this.

The game itself has never stood still and neither should we if a) we want to remain at the level we are currently at or b) if we want to establish ourselves as a top 20 club in the future.

Personally, I think any changes to our style of play will have to be made incrementally so as not to upset the balance of the team but MM has already seamlessly introduced a back 3 system when Harris' attempt to do so went disastrously wrong. In my opinion MM has the managerial/coaching skills to introduce a more accurate passing game whilst still maintaining the strengths we currently possess.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Let’s see what our squad looks like when we go back to seven subs - I’m not convinced that our desire to include youngsters will be so strong then.

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Neither do I, though I suppose it depends on whether Mick is given any money in the summer. Hoilett, Bennett & Williams will be out of contract. I imagine he'll try and move on some of the players he doesn't fancy and we'll of course lose the loanees so I guess we'll have to wait and see

I do remember reading that Mick has a decent record with youth development, whether brought through the club's youth system or signed from elsewhere so there is hope

I don't expect our style much to change at all even if MM is given a war chest. I don't think MM has ever been known for free flowing football.

The club have decided to stick to our current style as far as I'm concerned. It's worked in the past for results but I still question it this is a long term plan that will work.

I just think it is what it is now while MM here, I'm not expecting a new style of football.

I doubt there’s going to be an overhaul but we must address the midfield. Get a couple of players in who can accept the ball and not sh1t themselves. We’re pretty solid in defense and not shy of goals but the bit in-between is severely lacking. If only we could control games from time to time to blend in with the rough and tumble, we would be a top side at this level.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

There was an incident towards the end of the first half on Saturday when the ball fell to Ciaran Brown on the left-hand side of the penalty area following a Swansea corner. He carried the ball five or six yards and then simply whacked it forty or fifty yards into the opposition half. He made no attempt whatsoever to play the ball to a teammate. I don't think that was down to fatigue.

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I remember it well. I recall shouting something like "surely you're a better footballer than that" or obcenities to that effect at the TV when he did it.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I remember it well. I recall shouting something like "surely you're a better footballer than that" or obcenities to that effect at the TV when he did it.

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I just fell about laughing. I think it's what's called no-nonsense football.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I don't think every fan wants to see beautiful football. On the contrary, this board provides clear evidence every day that plenty of fans are more than happy with the kind of football City are currently playing, which is anything but beautiful.

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I also reckon that it caused us problems on Saturday. We gave the ball away time and again so cheaply that we were undoubtedly fortunate Swansea didn't take their chances.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I just fell about laughing. I think it's what's called no-nonsense football.

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:hehe: At one point we managed 3 or 4 passes in succession and me and my boy started chanting "It's just like watching Brazil"!

I can't see Flint leaving but an extension to his contract would suggest no new style of football. Likewise, starting with a trio of CB's of Morrison, Flint and one of Nelson/Brown tells us we're not going to be initiating any passing moves from the back so for all the talk about a midfield I think a new CB is needed as well.

Interesting to see if we try to cash in on Murphy or look to negotiate a cheaper deal.

These conversations are best left for the summer but i) we're likely to end up still with a mainly Warnock style defence or midfield next year for all the good and bad that entails and ii) transfer business will tell us a lot about direction club is heading in. We're signing up a lot of youth players so there is sign that it's a desire to be more comfortable on the ball, and finally having some time on training pitch could see some players mentioned in this thread develop that skill.

Right now I'd say MM has done lots of good things (several, obvious) and some bad (use of bench to rest players and pursue win against Stoke) but we can't really judge if extending his contract was right thing to do or not until we see his plans for next season and beyond.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I also reckon that it caused us problems on Saturday. We gave the ball away time and again so cheaply that we were undoubtedly fortunate Swansea didn't take their chances.

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I know it's a statement of the obvious, but one of the main reasons City's possession stats are so consistently low is the players give the ball away so frequently and cheaply. They were up against a Swansea side on Saturday who are by no means a possession-based team themselves this season, but City had just 25% of the ball.

There were long periods in the second half in particular when the set-up was similar to what you'd expect from a team in the lower leagues who were playing a Premier League side in the cup, or a team battling against relegation who were up against an automatic promotion candidate. Instead, it was a team going for a play-off spot against a jaded side already in those positions. A great advert for the Championship it was not, but then the division really is a poor standard this year. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

Theres no doubt we need to be better in possession of the ball.

However so much of 75 per cent in relation to Swansea was them slowly passing the ball between themselves and getting nowhere. Even in the last minute it was going sideways outside our box maybe about 15 passes for moves going nowhere. Probably the best chance of the 2nd half was ours with Wilson one end of the pitch to another and I think 3 passes in the move.

We should have had more composure to counter better. 2 genuine wing backs in Ng and Bennett/ Bagan would help.

Im sure even with the players we have now we should be far better with the ball.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I remember it well. I recall shouting something like "surely you're a better footballer than that" or obcenities to that effect at the TV when he did it.

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I also remember that well and shouting something very similar at the TV. Brown was under no particular pressure at the time either, I can only conclude it was an instruction to get rid.

Significantly the only time in the 2nd half we strung 3 passes together was the only time I noticed Harry Wilson was on the pitch and from the one decent pass to his feet he nearly scored.

I do not want the 3 centre backs passing the ball slowly amongst themselves before hurriedly clearing it away anyway and we’ve missed Bennett and No playing as wing backs in the last few games but we must be able to retain the ball a little better than in the last few games

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

I also remember that well and shouting something very similar at the TV. Brown was under no particular pressure at the time either, I can only conclude it was an instruction to get rid.

Significantly the only time in the 2nd half we strung 3 passes together was the only time I noticed Harry Wilson was on the pitch and from the one decent pass to his feet he nearly scored.

I do not want the 3 centre backs passing the ball slowly amongst themselves before hurriedly clearing it away anyway and we’ve missed Bennett and No playing as wing backs in the last few games but we must be able to retain the ball a little better than in the last few games

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The CCTV commentary said Wilson was screaming for it when Brown lumped it.

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Originally Posted by olderblue

I think the difference is going into the summer we have a few talented youngsters who will claim a start in the squad of 18
Soon we could be watching Phillips, Ng Sang Bagan Brown Colwell, Harris all in the first team, and who knows what other promising youngsters are coming through.
I wonder what Sang would look like playing in the middle of the park as he looks decent on the ball and composed, the loan players will I expect all go back to their parent clubs, I don't think we'd be in a position to buy any of them?
Maybe sell Smithies and buy back Etheridge and the 2-3 million pounds difference goes straight into a war chest for Mick.
One things for certain if there is any change in style it will certainly be an evolution rather than revolution under Mick.
His current record demonstrates that he knows exactly what he is doing to give a team a fighting chance of the top 6 finish for next year

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Sorry, 2 - 3 million does not constitute a "War Chest", kitty at most.

I don't think it's a case of needing to transform the way we play. I think it's more a case of either recruiting players or coaching the current ones to just be braver on the ball. To play in triangles to get out of tight spaces and consolidate possession, rather than lumping it blindly down the line at the first hint of pressure. To play around the corner when they're getting the ball to feet. To actually come deep and want it in the first place.

You can still look to play over the top and find runners (Liverpool have, for all intents and purposes, done this for the last 5 years). You can still even play percentage balls with runners off of Moore. But when the space is closed off or your front 3 are tired/being lazy, you need to have a different way of managing games in your locker.

Ive said it on another thread - if we can sign a player who does what Pack does but quicker and more consistently, it would make such a difference to us.

I wrote going into a war chest, none of us know how much if anything he will have to play with