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James Collins - England
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Re: James Collins - England
I think there's an element of truth in this though. I watched the Germany game in the Church Inn in Llanishen and the cheers that went up for England goals and the end of the game were pretty loud! There was nearly a fight between two guys over why the one was supporting Germany.
Don't get me wrong the last thing I want to see is them winning the thing, but it's mainly because how over the top the "British" media will be
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Re: James Collins - England
Jonathan Davies tweeted similar to what Collins said here, and took a leathering for being anti-English rugby but pro-English football which is about as classic a Welsh rugby fan move as possible. At least be consistent.
Btw Welsh people who don't like England at football or rugby but will happily cheer them on in cricket, give your heads a wobble. The blatant disrespect they show wales, is a joke.
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Re: James Collins - England
Well I'm with James here, and I know some who have supported them, particularly when Wales never made these tournaments. I also know plenty that seem almost pre occupied by them wanting nothing but failure for England.
I also know many people who couldn't give a monkeys either way.
Probably the most bizarre kind are those who say we and us whilst declaring their love for Liverpool and co but then say they hate England and want them to lose.
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Re: James Collins - England
Collins and Davies (I think to a lesser extent) have lived and worked in England for years so there's bound to be some attachment.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
Collins and Davies (I think to a lesser extent) have lived and worked in England for years so there's bound to be some attachment.
I'm not sure that follows. I have lived and worked in England most of my life and I have never supported England. In most sports I am neutral when England play, but when it comes to football (and to a lesser extent rugby union) I have got so sick of many of their fans and media that I slip into the ABE camp. It is usually light-hearted and based on banter at work and with my partner's family (Coventry), but constant exposure to 'Little Engerlanders' can produce anything but attachment. They are also the source of the rare but real examples of ant-Welsh abuse or prejudice I have experienced on this side of the border.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I'm not sure that follows. I have lived and worked in England most of my life and I have never supported England. In most sports I am neutral when England play, but when it comes to football (and to a lesser extent rugby union) I have got so sick of many of their fans and media that I slip into the ABE camp. It is usually light-hearted and based on banter at work and with my partner's family (Coventry), but constant exposure to 'Little Engerlanders' can produce anything but attachment. They are also the source of the rare but real examples of ant-Welsh abuse or prejudice I have experienced on this side of the border.
Okay, not "bound to be" then, but I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to get swept along by their adopted nation, even against the evidence you highlight. Perhaps Collins and Davies are little Britishers?
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Punxsutawney Phil
I think there's an element of truth in this though. I watched the Germany game in the Church Inn in Llanishen and the cheers that went up for England goals and the end of the game were pretty loud! There was nearly a fight between two guys over why the one was supporting Germany.
Don't get me wrong the last thing I want to see is them winning the thing, but it's mainly because how over the top the "British" media will be
I remember a similar experience during the 86 World Cup. England were in danger of going out in the group stages and had to beat Poland in their final game. Went to the Church Inn hoping to be amongst plenty of people wishing Poland well. Lineker scores a hat-trick and more than 90% of the punters were euphoric.
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Re: James Collins - England
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Originally Posted by
Der Kaiser
Jonathan Davies tweeted similar to what Collins said here, and took a leathering for being anti-English rugby but pro-English football which is about as classic a Welsh rugby fan move as possible. At least be consistent.
Btw Welsh people who don't like England at football or rugby but will happily cheer them on in cricket, give your heads a wobble. The blatant disrespect they show wales, is a joke.
I wan't them to lose at everything.
Rugby, football, cricket, the Olympics, British Lions.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
Well I'm with James here, and I know some who have supported them, particularly when Wales never made these tournaments. I also know plenty that seem almost pre occupied by them wanting nothing but failure for England.
I also know many people who couldn't give a monkeys either way.
Probably the most bizarre kind are those who say we and us whilst declaring their love for Liverpool and co but then say they hate England and want them to lose.
And me .
I watched Wales triumphs in 2016 via the English media and was well impressed with their commitment to our cause , and when it comes to Rugby they are equally complementary.
I also know a lot of folk in England who always cheer Wales on .
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
And me .
I watched Wales triumphs in 2016 via the English media and was well impressed with their commitment to our cause , and when it comes to Rugby they are equally complementary.
I also know a lot of folk in England who always cheer Wales on .
My English colleagues were genuinely shocked when I told them I was supporting whoever England was playing as they were cheering Wales on.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Punxsutawney Phil
I think there's an element of truth in this though. I watched the Germany game in the Church Inn in Llanishen and the cheers that went up for England goals and the end of the game were pretty loud! There was nearly a fight between two guys over why the one was supporting Germany.
Don't get me wrong the last thing I want to see is them winning the thing, but it's mainly because how over the top the "British" media will be
That would be opposed to the calm measured almost indifferent approach the media in Brazil Germany Italy etc take to their national team winning tournaments.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
Collins and Davies (I think to a lesser extent) have lived and worked in England for years so there's bound to be some attachment.
Ive said it before, move out of / away from Wales and the " chip on your shoulder " appears to diminish
Ive also said before when We ( Wales ) were doing well in the Euro 16's, alot of people i knew were supporting Wales
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Re: James Collins - England
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Originally Posted by
blue matt
Ive said it before, move out of / away from Wales and the " chip on your shoulder " appears to diminish
Ive also said before when We ( Wales ) were doing well in the Euro 16's, alot of people i knew were supporting Wales
Why does not supporting England equate to having a chip on your shoulder.
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Re: James Collins - England
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Originally Posted by
Harry Paget Flashman
Why does not supporting England equate to having a chip on your shoulder.
He probably means when you go out of your way to support whoever they play. In your case in any sport including tiddly winks and dwarf wrestling.
I get if someone isn't English, has no connection there and doesn't care either way, but the commitment to want nothing but failure for them I've never understood.
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Re: James Collins - England
Sport, particularly football, very often has a tradition of not wanting your closest neighbours to succeed whether your side are involved or not. We see that in the local derbies and indeed if your local rival is playing anyone else. Like it or not the majority of us have got a deep, ingrained dislike of Swansea and Bristol City (Rovers seems to get a free pass). The success of these rivals though isn’t rammed down your throat 24/7, the media, who are the real villains, go overboard with any glimmer of English success and we can’t escape it given the papers we buy and the television we watch. A lot of us have most probably admired many English players over the years but it’s difficult not to gloat when it inevitably goes tits up and the media goes into meltdown. Turn the tables though and they win this thing are we going to face an avalanche of back slapping and self congratulation on a scale we’ve never seen before? I reckon we will, much bigger than immediately after 1966 when things were a touch more reserved. I can’t f*cking wait......:facepalm:
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I'm not sure that follows. I have lived and worked in England most of my life and I have never supported England. In most sports I am neutral when England play, but when it comes to football (and to a lesser extent rugby union) I have got so sick of many of their fans and media that I slip into the ABE camp. It is usually light-hearted and based on banter at work and with my partner's family (Coventry), but constant exposure to 'Little Engerlanders' can produce anything but attachment. They are also the source of the rare but real examples of ant-Welsh abuse or prejudice I have experienced on this side of the border.
Like you, I have spent more of my life in England than in Wales but my England football-supporting colleagues, neighbours and acquaintances are very pleasant people and I am happy for them if their team does well - and the vast majority of them want Wales to do well.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
He probably means when you go out of your way to support whoever they play. In your case in any sport including tiddly winks and dwarf wrestling.
I get if someone isn't English, has no connection there and doesn't care either way, but the commitment to want nothing but failure for them I've never understood.
I suppose for me it’s deeper than just sport, I dislike Englands impact on the world and wish nothing but misery for their ruling classes. Regular Joe’s are no different than the rest of us. But then losing at sport is one in the eye for the pricks.
I’m apathetic about any football team other than Cardiff City. I don’t care who wins the premier league, champions league etc.
But for National English sports teams and their fans, media coverage it may as well be Brexit distilled into 90 mins.
The way they get portrayed as being the worlds best, founders of sport or it coming home just makes me think they are all *****.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Paget Flashman
Why does not supporting England equate to having a chip on your shoulder.
Trigger has replied in a way i couldnt add anything :thumbup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
He probably means when you go out of your way to support whoever they play. In your case in any sport including tiddly winks and dwarf wrestling.
I get if someone isn't English, has no connection there and doesn't care either way, but the commitment to want nothing but failure for them I've never understood.
Indeed, if you are not English and dont support them, fair enough, but the idea to support the team they are playing in anything and wishing England fail in everything, if thats not a chip on your shoulder, then i am not sure what is
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Paget Flashman
I suppose for me it’s deeper than just sport, I dislike Englands impact on the world and wish nothing but misery for their ruling classes. Regular Joe’s are no different than the rest of us. But then losing at sport is one in the eye for the pricks.
I’m apathetic about any football team other than Cardiff City. I don’t care who wins the premier league, champions league etc.
But for National English sports teams and their fans, media coverage it may as well be Brexit distilled into 90 mins.
The way they get portrayed as being the worlds best, founders of sport or it coming home just makes me think they are all *****.
losing in sports hardly effect the " ruling classes " but it does effect the average Joe imho
anyway, your post does look like the example of my example of the chip on the shoulder
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
Ive said it before, move out of / away from Wales and the " chip on your shoulder " appears to diminish
Ive also said before when We ( Wales ) were doing well in the Euro 16's, alot of people i knew were supporting Wales
Wales' run at Euro 16 was a rare joy ride with little or none of the pompous posturing that often comes with a good England run, so it's not really a fair comparison. There were some snippy comments about the parade afterwards though.
With regard to Collins and Davies, it's likely they didn't have a chip in the first place - they're mercenaries who would rock up anywhere that would pay them. They've also travelled all over the country hearing the same attitudes wherever they go.
Perhaps when we look at (part of) England's support people are reminded just how ridiculous football supporting can be. All that pent up anger and swagger about others' achievements. Why take it so seriously? It takes away the joy and sullies the party, and, unfortunately for those who just want to have fun, what's highlighted with England is the boorish arse who thinks it's all about him.
And of course it's not just a small country chip - a lot of English people aren't so keen on their national team because of it.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
Wales' run at Euro 16 was a rare joy ride with little or none of the pompous posturing that often comes with a good England run, so it's not really a fair comparison. There were some snippy comments about the parade afterwards though.
With regard to Collins and Davies, it's likely they didn't have a chip in the first place - they're mercenaries who would rock up anywhere that would pay them. They've also travelled all over the country hearing the same attitudes wherever they go.
Perhaps when we look at (part of) England's support people are reminded just how ridiculous football supporting can be. All that pent up anger and swagger about others' achievements. Why take it so seriously? It takes away the joy and sullies the party, and, unfortunately for those who just want to have fun, what's highlighted with England is the boorish arse who thinks it's all about him.
And of course it's not just a small country chip - a lot of English people aren't so keen on their national team because of it.
By Matts logic the whole world must have a chip on its shoulder.
**** England.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Paget Flashman
I suppose for me it’s deeper than just sport, I dislike Englands impact on the world and wish nothing but misery for their ruling classes. Regular Joe’s are no different than the rest of us. But then losing at sport is one in the eye for the pricks.
I’m apathetic about any football team other than Cardiff City. I don’t care who wins the premier league, champions league etc.
But for National English sports teams and their fans, media coverage it may as well be Brexit distilled into 90 mins.
The way they get portrayed as being the worlds best, founders of sport or it coming home just makes me think they are all *****.
If you dislike England because of their impact on the world. Surely there is a bit of a conflict when they play Portugal, France, Spain, Germany, Russia etc. They've all got histories that are quite colourful
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Re: James Collins - England
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Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Like you, I have spent more of my life in England than in Wales but my England football-supporting colleagues, neighbours and acquaintances are very pleasant people and I am happy for them if their team does well - and the vast majority of them want Wales to do well.
Well said. I watched the Wales v Portugal semi final of euro 16 on a cruise ship and the support for Wales was incredible. The cruise company had Welsh banners everywhere and made a big thing of the fact that a British team had gone so far in the competition. I'm fairly confident the vast majority of passengers were English.
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Re: James Collins - England
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Originally Posted by
Vindec
Well said. I watched the Wales v Portugal semi final of euro 16 on a cruise ship and the support for Wales was incredible. The cruise company had Welsh banners everywhere and made a big thing of the fact that a British team had gone so far in the competition. I'm fairly confident the vast majority of passengers were English.
Ive relayed a few stories about wearing my Welsh shirt ( especially during the euro 16 ) and People have said " hope you win / your lot are having a great tournament / good luck / etc etc " which is strange and many on here would have you believe English people are supporting whoever Wales are playing :hehe:
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
Ive relayed a few stories about wearing my Welsh shirt ( especially during the euro 16 ) and People have said " hope you win / your lot are having a great tournament / good luck / etc etc " which is strange and many on here would have you believe English people are supporting whoever Wales are playing :hehe:
You know what I think its possible that in a country of 56 million there were both people who wanted Wales to win and those who didn't want Wales to win
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
Trigger has replied in a way i couldnt add anything :thumbup:
Indeed, if you are not English and dont support them, fair enough, but the idea to support the team they are playing in anything and wishing England fail in everything, if thats not a chip on your shoulder, then i am not sure what is
losing in sports hardly effect the " ruling classes " but it does effect the average Joe imho
anyway, your post does look like the example of my example of the chip on the shoulder
I say, Marmaduke, our chaps have done a super job tonight. How do you fancy putting on our smoking jackets and celebrating with a cucumber sandwich and a tea cake?
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Re: James Collins - England
There are both nice England supporters who will wish Wales well and England supporters who, if you tell them they haven't been away from home yet this tournament, will be quick to tell you that Wales wouldn't survive without England or will shout "come on England" in the Millenium Stadium when watching the UK play Olympic football - a country of 68 million having both good and bad to it shocker!!
England football does what they think is right for England football though: they've pushed for an Olympics' team because it's right for England despite concerns about what it means for other home nations independent football status, they broke away from home nations youth cup because it was right for England despite it being a knock to other home nations and they pushed David Gill to be lead representative for governing body despite it being the Welsh official's turn because it was right for England football.
There are also many in Wales who will be quick to enjoy this summer but weren't bothered by 2016 because they don't want to see Wales as a nation in any small way. Welsh Tories are second biggest party in the Senedd and basically ran a campaign of "we're doing too much thinking for ourselves" while several other parties picked up hundreds of votes wanting to unwind any sense of nation status. There are MP's (Shrewsbury MP, Uxbridge and South Ruislip MP) in England who would likely agree.
James Collins has right to support whoever he wants, it's really not any different from him saying he'll support Spain now, but doesn't have right to say he's speaking for everyone. A small adjustment to his wording would likely see a different reaction from most.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Sport, particularly football, very often has a tradition of not wanting your closest neighbours to succeed whether your side are involved or not. We see that in the local derbies and indeed if your local rival is playing anyone else. Like it or not the majority of us have got a deep, ingrained dislike of Swansea and Bristol City (Rovers seems to get a free pass). The success of these rivals though isn’t rammed down your throat 24/7, the media, who are the real villains, go overboard with any glimmer of English success and we can’t escape it given the papers we buy and the television we watch. A lot of us have most probably admired many English players over the years but it’s difficult not to gloat when it inevitably goes tits up and the media goes into meltdown. Turn the tables though and they win this thing are we going to face an avalanche of back slapping and self congratulation on a scale we’ve never seen before? I reckon we will, much bigger than immediately after 1966 when things were a touch more reserved. I can’t f*cking wait......:facepalm:
The irony being that the press have harangued the England team a great deal over the last half-century due to their lack of success.
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Re: James Collins - England
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Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
The irony being that the press have harangued the England team a great deal over the last half-century due to their lack of success.
Build them up and them knock them down
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Re: James Collins - England
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Originally Posted by
blue matt
Build them up and them knock them down
Indeed. And it happens in most other countries, of course. The media need a story either way.
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Re: James Collins - England
I'd prefer to see the Jacks winning the premier league, especially if their team had a number of welsh lads.... and I dont like them very much at all.
Unlike many on here who claim the english premier league is boring, I enjoy watching it.... I don't begrudge Mount or Henderson winning the champions league either.
When it comes to their international team it wouldn't hurt me if they won it (nothing like losing the Denmark game) but I can help but feel life would be better if they didn't.
If they did win it, it shouldn't come as a shock considering they probably have one of the richest FA's in the game who have invested big time in a country with one of the bigger populations in Europe.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Indeed. And it happens in most other countries, of course. The media need a story either way.
I don't think it does happen to the same extent in other countries. I was listening to the Euro leagues podcast and Guillem Balague and Julien Laurens were commenting on the extent to which people in England are the only people who talk about a final before they had even got beyond the quarters......they mentioned how arrogant the "coming home" chant is...........I was thinking " Finally, someone else understands!! It's not the chip on the shoulder after all and they actually ARE unbearable".
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Divine Wright
I don't think it does happen to the same extent in other countries. I was listening to the Euro leagues podcast and Guillem Balague and Julien Laurens were commenting on the extent to which people in England are the only people who talk about a final before they had even got beyond the quarters......they mentioned how arrogant the "coming home" chant is...........I was thinking " Finally, someone else understands!! It's not the chip on the shoulder after all and they actually ARE unbearable".
Well I have lived in England for over 40 years and I can't say that I have usually heard much talk about England being in a final at such an early stage of a competition. And the ditty to which you refer is a light-hearted aspirational song penned by a couple of chaps and reflects an historical link that England has with the game. Some people on here think that the English are two-headed monsters and have unique, negatives attributes that do not exist elsewhere.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Well I have lived in England for over 40 years and I can't say that I have usually heard much talk about England being in a final at such an early stage of a competition. And the ditty to which you refer is a light-hearted aspirational song penned by a couple of chaps and reflects an historical link that England has with the game. Some people on here think that the English are two-headed monsters and have unique, negatives attributes that do not exist elsewhere.
Not only some people on here it seems but those from other countries without any ties to England think they are two-headed monsters as you so melodramatically put it. The ditty is fine, it's just taken to another level when chanted in a football stadium by people dressed as english crusaders. Again, not just me or other petty welshmen who think that. I do realise there are perfectly humble england supporters btw. I don't feel any ill-will towards them.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Well I have lived in England for over 40 years and I can't say that I have usually heard much talk about England being in a final at such an early stage of a competition. And the ditty to which you refer is a light-hearted aspirational song penned by a couple of chaps and reflects an historical link that England has with the game. Some people on here think that the English are two-headed monsters and have unique, negatives attributes that do not exist elsewhere.
If Luka Modric, Guillem Balague and Julien Laurens are saying they find the singing of that song arrogant then even if not written with that in mind it could mean it's sung in an arrogant way.
Hard not to find Jenas' commentary at 1-0 to England far too dismissive of Ukraine's chances. Although, this year majority of English press has been almost afraid to speak up their chances so, up until Germany result, the arrogance had gone.
I think it's interesting to see online reaction to Gunter's instagram post. In Wales there was recognition of it being how we felt and being accurate but even some of the most even-handed of twitter English fans were quite negative about it, felt it was sour grapes and were quite mocking. If this is your only experience of an England football fan then can see why some are more negative, but no need to see English football fans as one two-headed monster.
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
If Luka Modric, Guillem Balague and Julien Laurens are saying they find the singing of that song arrogant then even if not written with that in mind it could mean it's sung in an arrogant way.
Hard not to find Jenas' commentary at 1-0 to England far too dismissive of Ukraine's chances. Although, this year majority of English press has been almost afraid to speak up their chances so, up until Germany result, the arrogance had gone.
I think it's interesting to see online reaction to Gunter's instagram post. In Wales there was recognition of it being how we felt and being accurate but even some of the most even-handed of twitter English fans were quite negative about it, felt it was sour grapes and were quite mocking. If this is your only experience of an England football fan then can see why some are more negative, but no need to see English football fans as one two-headed monster.
Keep talking Mate.
It’s going make the fckers winning it less painful to me.
It’s going to happen this year.
We all know it...
Time to start the * campaign.
2020 not 21 home games, terrible format, Covid, Banned Welsh Fans, Denmark missing Erickson, Italy’s left back getting injured.
#startthe*
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Re: James Collins - England
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
If Luka Modric, Guillem Balague and Julien Laurens are saying they find the singing of that song arrogant then even if not written with that in mind it could mean it's sung in an arrogant way.
Hard not to find Jenas' commentary at 1-0 to England far too dismissive of Ukraine's chances. Although, this year majority of English press has been almost afraid to speak up their chances so, up until Germany result, the arrogance had gone.
I think it's interesting to see online reaction to Gunter's instagram post. In Wales there was recognition of it being how we felt and being accurate but even some of the most even-handed of twitter English fans were quite negative about it, felt it was sour grapes and were quite mocking. If this is your only experience of an England football fan then can see why some are more negative, but no need to see English football fans as one two-headed monster.
I have mentioned on here myself about the patronising remarks made by English-speaking commentators and why I sometimes tune into broadcasts of the games in German for a more fair-minded perspective. However, bearing a grudge against the England team and their fans as a whole due to some people in the media and on Twitter seems to be a case of misdirection, in my opinion.
Similarly, I don't like being judged by any knuckle-dragging behaviour of people who support the same club as me.
Most football fans are not bigoted idiots even if the latter make the greatest noise.
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Re: James Collins - England
I can't get too worked up about this subject. Surely the truth has to be that there are plenty of Welsh people who wanted England to win last night and will hope that they end up lifting the trophy? On the other hand, it has to be wrong for James Collins or anyone else for that matter to claim they are speaking for our country when they say they want England to win for the simple reason that they do not speak for at least one Welsh person - me!
As a confirmed member of the anyone but England club, I look back and to try to understand why I'm like I am. Some of it is quite pathetic really - I can remember loving it so much in 1973 when Poland knocked England out of the World Cup 1974 by topping their qualifying group, for no other reason than it shoved the arrogant, entitled and disparaging (when it came to the Poles) words of Brian Clough and Malcolm Allison (two men I had a lot of time for in the main) down their throats.
I shouldn't have let something like that form my opinion to such an extent, but it did - although I would say that my anyone but England feelings back then were more along the lines of the sort of good natured joshing you get between rival football fans.
I know the exact time and place where my feelings crystalised into something more serious - Twickenham car park after the England v Wales match in 1980 (the Paul Ringer game). What I saw after that match, which England won 9-8 with a very late penalty to make it three of them to our two tries really took me aback - it was pure hatred of the Welsh team and, by implication, Wales. It wasn't the odd one or two either, there were hundreds of them - now, I'm sensible enough to know that what I saw that day did not represent the views of most English men/women, but I'd also say that what I saw that day was proof that the sort of attitude some have mentioned in this thread is not just limited to the likes of Tommy Robinson.
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Re: James Collins - England
Given that the vast majority of Cardiff City players are not Welsh, and most probably English, I find it difficult to understand the anti English bias by some on this forum on this forum. If Cardiff City with no Welsh players played Swansea City with 4 Welsh players would we all support Swansea City? Of course not.
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Re: James Collins - England
You will be pleased to hear that my word bag is now empty regarding this subject matter. I'm off to lead a walk in the thunder, lightning and rain in the Quantocks....