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Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Pity Cardiff don’t do anything about our filthy lot !!!
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/footb...utrage-3356865
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Our racist chanting?
Ewe nose itts bout dat “pedo” chant
You naughty boy
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
Ewe nose itts bout dat “pedo” chant
You naughty boy
Thought after pages and pages the general census was that, even though its in bad taste it wasn't breaking any law?
Racist behaviour deserves a ban.
I won't defend peopsinging a sick song, but as far as I'm aware there is no precedent for banning people for singing such a song? I say "as far as I am aware" because I've kit seen it, some keyboard savvy member on here may find an example on the Internet.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Thought after pages and pages the general census was that, even though its in bad taste it wasn't breaking any law?
Racist behaviour deserves a ban.
I won't defend peopsinging a sick song, but as far as I'm aware there is no precedent for banning people for singing such a song? I say "as far as I am aware" because I've kit seen it, some keyboard savvy member on here may find an example on the Internet.
Public Order Act 1986 section 5 , section 4
Racist behaviour deserves a ban , offensive, insulting behaviour doesn't......
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Has a fan ever been banned for singing the song?
Wouldn't the club have done something by now if they had a cause to ban people who sing the song? I mean, everyone is aware of it, it's no secret it's sang at games so staff and officials at the club will be aware of it.
Has anyone been banned?
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
I've danced enough with you in the other thread on this, if you're just going to repeat yourself over and over, save your effort, if you're going to answer me, fine, I'll await your sensible post with a list of fans banned for singing the song.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Celtic added: “If reports are accurate then such sickening and pathetic racist behaviour directed towards Kyogo Furuhashi deserves absolute condemnation.
"Unfortunately, a number of Celtic players in recent years have suffered similar racist abuse.
“As a club open to all, we stand firmly against racism in all its forms and we will give Kyogo our full support. All stakeholders must work together in tackling all forms of bigotry.”
Racism has no part to play in any walks of life.
But Celtic are by no means innocent in racism and bigotry and it's not as one sided as they are trying to make out.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
I've danced enough with you in the other thread on this, if you're just going to repeat yourself over and over, save your effort, if you're going to answer me, fine, I'll await your sensible post with a list of fans banned for singing the song.
The fact that nobody , as yet , has been arrested , charged or banned over this chant does not mean that the chant itself is not breaking the law ......which you are suggesting
I can assure that it is
The lack of arrests is more to do with a lack of previous action by the club , a lack of people reporting such chanting and the difficulty police have in targeting and catching offenders
The club now openly invite people to report such chanting and have a Web page link to do so , anonymously
So between the fans , the club and the police things will either get done or they won't
But the argument that the chant itself is not illegal behaviour is wrong
It most certainly is
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stan butler
Celtic added: “If reports are accurate then such sickening and pathetic racist behaviour directed towards Kyogo Furuhashi deserves absolute condemnation.
"Unfortunately, a number of Celtic players in recent years have suffered similar racist abuse.
“As a club open to all, we stand firmly against racism in all its forms and we will give Kyogo our full support. All stakeholders must work together in tackling all forms of bigotry.”
Racism has no part to play in any walks of life.
But Celtic are by no means innocent in racism and bigotry and it's not as one sided as they are trying to make out.
Celtic fans are as guilty as rangers of religious bigotry but I am not aware of them having a history of racist behaviour
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
The fact that nobody , as yet , has been arrested , charged or banned over this chant does not mean that the chant itself is not breaking the law ......which you are suggesting
I can assure that it is
The lack of arrests is more to do with a lack of previous action by the club , a lack of people reporting such chanting and the difficulty police have in targeting and catching offenders
The club now openly invite people to report such chanting and have a Web page link to do so , anonymously
So between the fans , the club and the police things will either get done or they won't
But the argument that the chant itself is not illegal behaviour is wrong
It most certainly is
Here we go again :facepalm:
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Celtic fans are as guilty as rangers of religious bigotry but I am not aware of them having a history of racist behaviour
Both have had issues with racism over the years not much but it has been there.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stan butler
Here we go again :facepalm:
I am just correcting his error
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stan butler
Here we go again :facepalm:
Not happening.
Hes just repeating himself.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stan butler
Celtic added: “If reports are accurate then such sickening and pathetic racist behaviour directed towards Kyogo Furuhashi deserves absolute condemnation.
"Unfortunately, a number of Celtic players in recent years have suffered similar racist abuse.
“As a club open to all, we stand firmly against racism in all its forms and we will give Kyogo our full support. All stakeholders must work together in tackling all forms of bigotry.”
Racism has no part to play in any walks of life.
But Celtic are by no means innocent in racism and bigotry and it's not as one sided as they are trying to make out.
It is one sided. Kyogo has been racially abused, isn't that what this is about?
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
Tuerto
It is one sided. Kyogo has been racially abused, isn't that what this is about?
I thought that. Hardly the time for rangers to say "well they have done it too"
Its not a playground argument. Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
I thought that. Hardly the time for rangers to say "well they have done it too"
Its not a playground argument. Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up.
Yup, i don't know if celtic fans have been racist in the past or are now, if they are or have been, then they need sorting, but bringing it up during the subject of Kyogo being racially abused, somehow takes the focus off what has happened to him, dilutes it slightly, in my opinion.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
Tuerto
It is one sided. Kyogo has been racially abused, isn't that what this is about?
I wasn't debating that i was talking about the part they say "Unfortunately, a number of Celtic players in recent years have suffered similar racist abuse" .
As a club open to all we stand firmly against racism in all its forms and we will give Kyogo our full support.
All stakeholders must work together in tackling all forms of bigotry.”
Over the years there have been racist problems at both clubs.
Celtic hardly stands firmly against racism nor bigotry and in my opinion are using the incident to have a pop at a rival rather than concentrating on the Kyogo incident..
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Yup, i don't know if celtic fans have been racist in the past or are now, if they are or have been, then they need sorting, but bringing it up during the subject of Kyogo being racially abused, somehow takes the focus off what has happened to him, dilutes it slightly, in my opinion.
Hopefully all involved will be fined , banned or jailed..
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I am just correcting his error
:popcorn:
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stan butler
I wasn't debating that i was talking about the part they say "Unfortunately, a number of Celtic players in recent years have suffered similar racist abuse" .
As a club open to all we stand firmly against racism in all its forms and we will give Kyogo our full support.
All stakeholders must work together in tackling all forms of bigotry.”
Over the years there have been racist problems at both clubs.
Celtic hardly stands firmly against racism nor bigotry and in my opinion are using the incident to have a pop at a rival rather than concentrating on the Kyogo incident..
Fair enough Stan, if that's what you think, i have no reason to doubt you. I've not seen anything about celtic fans singling out people of colour and using racist words, although i've not been looking. Send me in the direction of such behaviour and how the club reacted to it. I'd be interested to read about it.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
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Originally Posted by
stan butler
Hopefully all involved will be fined , banned or jailed..
The rangers fans have been given indefinite bans. Rangers have reacted very well to this in my opinion.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stan butler
:popcorn:
Already replied to you once...
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Public Order Act 1986 section 5 , section 4
Racist behaviour deserves a ban , offensive, insulting behaviour doesn't......
Who is the song going to cause distress (s5) or provoke violence (s4)?
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Who is the song going to cause distress (s5) or provoke violence (s4)?
To who is it going to cause distress ?
A song about child abuse ?
To people who have been abused
To relatives of people who have been abused
And to people who don't wasnt to hear that kind of distressing song
That's just for a start
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Who is the song going to cause distress (s5) or provoke violence (s4)?
Here goes groundhog day. One man repeating himself 57 times.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
To who is it going to cause distress ?
A song about child abuse ?
To people who have been abused
To relatives of people who have been abused
And to people who don't wasnt to hear that kind of distressing song
That's just for a start
Any evidence the victims or family members/friends are in the ground?
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Any evidence the victims or family members/friends are in the ground?
Totally irrelevant
South Wales Police say that that song constitutes an offence under the public order act and also outrages public decency
How do you think the Southampton fans doing the aeroplane gesture were charged and convicted when we played them away ?
Sala wasn't there , nor were his family
The club are taking action about this chanting and the information has been passed onto Cardiff City Football Liason officer
Now clearly you would never sing such a chant but if you want to discuss the legal in and outs of offensive chanting or gestures at football matches I would write to your MP or something
I know you know a lot about accountancy but if you are here to defend the right of people to sing that song , however obscene then you will be arguing with yourself . And if you don't think the song fits in with the law then good luck .
The only thing that stops the police arresting people over this is matching recordings of the song being sung by individuals either in person by police officers , or on film . The fact that they are going to find this extremely difficult doesn't mean that offences have not been committed.
Good luck on your legal journey .
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Here goes groundhog day. One man repeating himself 57 times.
That's Feedback for you
You are wrong , as is he .
Enchante
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Not happening.
Hes just repeating himself.
I know
Some people need educating
Some are forever lost
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
I await the first ban.
Have a feeling we will be waiting a while.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Totally irrelevant
South Wales Police say that that song constitutes an offence under the public order act and also outrages public decency
How do you think the Southampton fans doing the aeroplane gesture were charged and convicted when we played them away ?
Sala wasn't there , nor were his family
The club are taking action about this chanting and the information has been passed onto Cardiff City Football Liason officer
Now clearly you would never sing such a chant but if you want to discuss the legal in and outs of offensive chanting or gestures at football matches I would write to your MP or something
I know you know a lot about accountancy but if you are here to defend the right of people to sing that song , however obscene then you will be arguing with yourself . And if you don't think the song fits in with the law then good luck .
The only thing that stops the police arresting people over this is matching recordings of the song being sung by individuals either in person by police officers , or on film . The fact that they are going to find this extremely difficult doesn't mean that offences have not been committed.
Good luck on your legal journey .
I'm not defending anything sludge, I'm suggesting you may not be correct in your interpretation of the law.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
"Can I be prosecuted for chanting at football matches? - InBrief.co.uk" https://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-l...football-fans/
"Indecent chanting is more difficult to prove, because the Act does not define what constitutes ‘indecent’ for these purposes. This means cases will be considered on an individual basis and will depend on the facts of each case."
Also..
"Chants which are in poor taste may not be indecent, but chants relating to sexual orientation can be. Homophobic abuse can constitute indecent chanting: a football fan was recently fined for chanting ‘queer’ three times at rival supporters during a football match in Brighton."
The chanting isn't racist, homophobic or discriminating.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
I'm amazed such nastiness is sung in Scotland, they're usually so well behavoured with little history of offensive insults directed towards others and religious beliefs.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
I'm not defending anything sludge, I'm suggesting you may not be correct in your interpretation of the law.
BBC News - Emiliano Sala: Southampton fans banned for plane taunts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-50332809
Threatening words or behaviour likely to cause alarm or distress , public order offences
The issue is not whether an offence has taken place , its working together to try and convict individuals
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
"Can I be prosecuted for chanting at football matches? - InBrief.co.uk"
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-l...football-fans/
"Indecent chanting is more difficult to prove, because the Act does not define what constitutes ‘indecent’ for these purposes. This means cases will be considered on an individual basis and will depend on the facts of each case."
Also..
"Chants which are in poor taste may not be indecent, but chants relating to sexual orientation can be. Homophobic abuse can constitute indecent chanting: a football fan was recently fined for chanting ‘queer’ three times at rival supporters during a football match in Brighton."
The chanting isn't racist, homophobic or discriminating.
BBC News - Emiliano Sala: Southampton fans banned for plane taunts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-50332809
Convicted of public order offences , words actions or behaviour likely to cause alarm or distress
Offences have clearly been committed, it's putting people before the court
It's why offensive , threatening or indecent chanting is so hard to stamp out
It's not that the police , fans groups and the authorities are generally not interested , its just a difficult area to deal with given people have to be recorded saying the words on film and audio matched to cctv
That doesn't mean we do nothing though . There is a club meeting this week . My vibe is the club may start making announcements but I don't know .
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
I'm not defending anything sludge, I'm suggesting you may not be correct in your interpretation of the law.
As someone who works with victims of child abuse, I can tell you this chant is awful and anyone at the ground, watching or listening who has been subjected to sexual abuse, and there will be 1000's, will be at best uncomfortable or at the worst re-traumatised with potentially devastating effects.
The Sexual Offences Act doesn't really address the issue of chants at football matches about child abuse - it does though talk about communication with and in front of children and the fact that children will be in the ground and watching while this chant is going on COULD be an infringement of the Sexual Offences Act.
However there are plenty of other laws which do restrict the use of sexual language in public and that is certainly being breeched in this case.
City fans chanting it - just stop. It's childish and pathetic. It may be a 'bit of fun' for morons but for the rest of society, it's not, especially for survivors of abuse and their families.
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Any evidence the victims or family members/friends are in the ground?
What a poor argument. Even if there aren't any in the ground, which there undoubtedly will be, that doesn't make the chant acceptable
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
BBC News - Emiliano Sala: Southampton fans banned for plane taunts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-50332809
Threatening words or behaviour likely to cause alarm or distress , public order offences
The issue is not whether an offence has taken place , its working together to try and convict individuals
I'll ask again, who in the ground is going to be offended by that song being sung?
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Re: Glasgow Rangers fans banned for racial abuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UNDERHILL1927
What a poor argument. Even if there aren't any in the ground, which there undoubtedly will be, that doesn't make the chant acceptable
Sludge was citing POA86, which is about causing distress or perceived harm to an individual.
If no one is distressed etc, then there is no infringement of the law.