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Dalman and Choo have to go
The car salesmen have played a blinder. We’ve ended up weaker than last year following Murphy’s departure. We now have one winger at the football club when playing with a target man and one 19
Year old left back.
The club is literally going no where, there is no long term plan. The youth are being played out of necessity rather than a structural change to the clubs operations.
We’re left with a style for football which is awful, dwindling attendances, PR disasters and no business plan.
It’s a miss and a deserved management who are progressive and engaged
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Logic would indicated that loaning out with some of his salary paid lessens the impact of a player, not likely to play, during the final year of their contract.
Research however provides zero evidence he has gone anywhere.
EDIT:
Only sauce for said "gone to Preston" claim is a thread on **** board, with the person making the claim conveniently knowing a Preston fan.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Where has Murphy gone?
About 5 yards outside the penalty box, no options, turned back on himself and gave the ball to Ralls.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Walesonline, bbc and the mirror and a few have reported it
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
Walesonline, bbc and the mirror and a few have reported it
Just saw this too https://www.deepdaledigest.com/news/...g-for-preston/
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Surely I can't be alone in hating our players being loaned to teams in the same division?
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
It’s the lack of recruitment planning and strategy. Murphy leaving is one thing but not to replace him is just plain stupid. If Giles is recalled we’ll have no senior wingers, in a system which relies on crosses
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
of course we are weaker than last season, we have half as much money to work with.
we've done well to still be as close as we are to last year.
Murphy probably won't play so if we can get rid of the wage then that's a good thing for us
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
It’s the lack of recruitment planning and strategy. Murphy leaving is one thing but not to replace him is just plain stupid. If Giles is recalled we’ll have no senior wingers, in a system which relies on crosses
if that happens then we will play a different way.
you can play with 3 narrow central strikers and rely on the wingbacks for width.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
We don’t have a choice with the lack of pace. Complete shambles
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
of course we are weaker than last season, we have half as much money to work with.
we've done well to still be as close as we are to last year.
Murphy probably won't play so if we can get rid of the wage then that's a good thing for us
But why to one of our competitors in the same division? I don't like it. That's two clubs in the same division we've loaned a player to.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
The car salesmen have played a blinder. We’ve ended up weaker than last year following Murphy’s departure. We now have one winger at the football club when playing with a target man and one 19
Year old left back.
The club is literally going no where, there is no long term plan. The youth are being played out of necessity rather than a structural change to the clubs operations.
We’re left with a style for football which is awful, dwindling attendances, PR disasters and no business plan.
It’s a miss and a deserved management who are progressive and engaged
Hhmmm
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
It’s the lack of recruitment planning and strategy. Murphy leaving is one thing but not to replace him is just plain stupid. If Giles is recalled we’ll have no senior wingers, in a system which relies on crosses
Just a suggestion - we could always recall Murphy !!
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
The car salesmen have played a blinder. We’ve ended up weaker than last year following Murphy’s departure. We now have one winger at the football club when playing with a target man and one 19
Year old left back.
The club is literally going no where, there is no long term plan. The youth are being played out of necessity rather than a structural change to the clubs operations.
We’re left with a style for football which is awful, dwindling attendances, PR disasters and no business plan.
It’s a miss and a deserved management who are progressive and engaged
Dalman and Choo have been running this club for the last 10 years. They are hardly inexperienced therefore and certainly not car salesman as you have put it. Chill out for goodness sake. Plus, please explain how our attendances are ‘dwindling’.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Dalman and Choo have been running this club for the last 10 years. They are hardly inexperienced therefore and certainly not car salesman as you have put it. Chill out for goodness sake. Plus, please explain how our attendances are ‘dwindling’.
They have senior roles at HR Owen and both live in west London. They are inexperienced in football
Roles and refuse to supplement the boardroom with football men who can add expert direction.
I won’t chill out because the club is going no where. What is the strategic plan? Come on tell me? Sack a manger every two years?
We’re drifting in mid table going absolutely no where.
Attendances will drop, the football is painful to watch. It’s not an attractive proposition
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logic
Logic would indicated that loaning out with some of his salary paid lessens the impact of a player, not likely to play, during the final year of their contract.
Research however provides zero evidence he has gone anywhere.
EDIT:
Only sauce for said "gone to Preston" claim is a thread on **** board, with the person making the claim conveniently knowing a Preston fan.
HP?
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Dalman and Choo have been running this club for the last 10 years.
Incorrect. Dalman was appointed as Chairman in July 2013 and Choo was appointed as CEO in November 2014.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Dalman and Choo have been running this club for the last 10 years. They are hardly inexperienced therefore and certainly not car salesman as you have put it. Chill out for goodness sake. Plus, please explain how our attendances are ‘dwindling’.
You speak as if them being in their jobs for almost a decade is some sort of endorsement, I would have thought that given where we were when they arrived and where we are now, it's hardly that.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
About 5 yards outside the penalty box, no options, turned back on himself and gave the ball to Ralls.
Lol….if we got 10% of the fee we paid back it would be a miracle. Looking at all the players who have gone our wage bill must have dropped quite a lot this season, which is to be expected.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
They have senior roles at HR Owen and both live in west London. They are inexperienced in football
Roles and refuse to supplement the boardroom with football men who can add expert direction.
I won’t chill out because the club is going no where. What is the strategic plan? Come on tell me? Sack a manger every two years?
We’re drifting in mid table going absolutely no where.
Attendances will drop, the football is painful to watch. It’s not an attractive proposition
Ripe for a takeover though, which is what VT will want us to be.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Shouldn't we judge whether we're weaker based on contribution rather than profile of name and therefore it's something to assess in run-up to January and at end of the year rather than 5 games in?
We're definitely shorter in terms of senior attacking players but how much did Hoilett, Murphy, Whyte, Watters, Jonny Williams actually do for us on the pitch last year?
Expected difference from those missing being in terms of squad depth - what do we do in games where Giles needs a rest? - and buzz around club away from pitch. Bigger difference on the pitch being that Giles will probably fall in between contributions of Wilson and Ojo and we haven't yet got anyone to make up the difference.
Is saving a possible £1million worth it? They'll argue yes but that's an statement about previous year's mismanagement more than anything.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
They have senior roles at HR Owen and both live in west London. They are inexperienced in football
Roles and refuse to supplement the boardroom with football men who can add expert direction.
I won’t chill out because the club is going no where. What is the strategic plan? Come on tell me? Sack a manger every two years?
We’re drifting in mid table going absolutely no where.
Attendances will drop, the football is painful to watch. It’s not an attractive proposition
So attendances aren't ‘dwindling’ - it is just your opinion on what could happen. Also, how can any team be ‘drifting in mid table’ after five games ? - ridiculous comment. The strategic plan is to bring through a number of young players, who are showing great promise, from the academy and under 23’s which is something many people have been crying out for, for many years. To be self sufficient with players should be the objective of every club outside the elite. Choo and Dalman have been running a successful top six championship side for a number of years and to say they are inexperienced at doing it is rubbish.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Slightly OT but as discussing Dalman, has anybody ever ready Kleptopia? It's a book by Tom Burgis, in which Dalman features from his time working on the board of a dodgy Kazakhstan-based mining company called ENRC. Interesting read...
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Just a suggestion - we could always recall Murphy !!
I'm not sure you can recall season long loans any more
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Incorrect. Dalman was appointed as Chairman in July 2013 and Choo was appointed as CEO in November 2014.
Mr know all and pedantic, strikes again. Bravo. Dalman joined the club as a board member in 2012 by the way, so you should check your sources a bit better.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I'm not sure you can recall season long loans any more
Giles is on a season long loan to us from Wolves, with a recall clause in January. This is standard apparently.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Lol….if we got 10% of the fee we paid back it would be a miracle. Looking at all the players who have gone our wage bill must have dropped quite a lot this season, which is to be expected.
has it dropped by £35 million though?
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Dalman joined the club as a board member in 2012 by the way, so you should check your sources a bit better.
I'm aware of that. However, he didn't become the Emperor's chief stooge until July 2013.
Are we now in 2022?
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Choo and Dalman have been running a successful top six championship side for a number of years and to say they are inexperienced at doing it is rubbish.
2014/15 - 11th
2015/16 - 8th
2016/17 - 12th
2020/21 - 8th
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Lol….if we got 10% of the fee we paid back it would be a miracle. Looking at all the players who have gone our wage bill must have dropped quite a lot this season, which is to be expected.
I've done a very rough estimate based on a lot of dubious information, and come up with a first team wage bill of around £20 million last season and about 12 million this season, which if we aren't much worse in the league is actually good progress.
once we get the remaining high earners off the books (or offer a new contract on a sensible wage) and if some of the youngsters start to make an impression then we won't be in a bad place.
at the moment too much if our operating budget has been chewed up by players who aren't delivering a proportional amount of impact. (Tomlin, Murphy, smithies etc etc).
that has meant we aren't competing with our full resources available - it's like fighting with one hand tied behind our backs.
in one or two seasons, if we bring the youth through, and are not wasting half our budget then we might be a much better bet for Tan to have another push (assuming we don't make too many losses in the meantime that ffp would preclude that)
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
2014/15 - 11th
2015/16 - 8th
2016/17 - 12th
2020/21 - 8th
2017/18 - 2nd
2018/19 Relegated from premier league
2019-20 - 5th
Just filling in the blanks :thumbup:
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I've done a very rough estimate based on a lot of dubious information, and come up with a first team wage bill of around £20 million last season and about 12 million this season, which if we aren't much worse in the league is actually good progress.
once we get the remaining high earners off the books (or offer a new contract on a sensible wage) and if some of the youngsters start to make an impression then we won't be in a bad place.
at the moment too much if our operating budget has been chewed up by players who aren't delivering a proportional amount of impact. (Tomlin, Murphy, smithies etc etc).
that has meant we aren't competing with our full resources available - it's like fighting with one hand tied behind our backs.
in one or two seasons, if we bring the youth through, and are not wasting half our budget then we might be a much better bet for Tan to have another push (assuming we don't make too many losses in the meantime that ffp would preclude that)
I honestly think it's over with Tan and there won't ever be another push. I think we've had our chances and blown them. I'm completely at odds with current thinking and see us as a club in decline. This wasn't just about losing Murphy, this was about no buzz or excitement for the fans (or prospective fans) on the final day of the transfer season. I'm not embarrassed by this reaction as I think there's too much groupthink about our current situation and I'm very comfortable being at odds with the majority (that's never bothered me). I've said before, we're a spreadsheet now and not a living breathing club. There's money. There's just no will. What we're doing will never work out well. Football doesn't play by City's and the board's rules.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
The board are always damned if they do and damned if they don't. They will never please everyone.
Its not exactly wonderful football with the current standard but good to see he's bringing in the youth who do look promising. Would like to think a 6th place may be achievable but won't be crying if we don't. Money is tight and I accept that, some of the mental contracts from Warnocks era are shocking so at least the club are trying to live within their means.
Just enjoying getting down there, have a beer or 4 and watch the game.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
I honestly think it's over with Tan and there won't ever be another push. I think we've had our chances and blown them. I'm completely at odds with current thinking and see us as a club in decline. This wasn't just about losing Murphy, this was about no buzz or excitement for the fans (or prospective fans) on the final day of the transfer season. I'm not embarrassed by this reaction as I think there's too much groupthink about our current situation and I'm very comfortable being at odds with the majority (that's never bothered me). I've said before, we're a spreadsheet now and not a living breathing club. There's money. There's just no will. What we're doing will never work out well. Football doesn't play by City's and the board's rules.
Excitement on the last day? We kept our star striker which is exciting in itself.
Clubs leaving business to last day is usually a sign of things going wrong earlier and for once that wasn't us.
If fans can only get up when seeing new players come in then football's gone wrong.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
I honestly think it's over with Tan and there won't ever be another push. I think we've had our chances and blown them. I'm completely at odds with current thinking and see us as a club in decline. This wasn't just about losing Murphy, this was about no buzz or excitement for the fans (or prospective fans) on the final day of the transfer season. I'm not embarrassed by this reaction as I think there's too much groupthink about our current situation and I'm very comfortable being at odds with the majority (that's never bothered me). I've said before, we're a spreadsheet now and not a living breathing club. There's money. There's just no will. What we're doing will never work out well. Football doesn't play by City's and the board's rules.
You could easily be right with Tan, but he obviously still has an interest in football, he now owns 3 clubs again.
There aren't too many times over the past few years when investing more in us would have been worthwhile. We could easily have spend an extra 20-30 million and still have been favourites to be relegated in the premier league, and spending 10-20 million more in the championship probably wouldn't have made us favourites to go up in any of our seasons here. Of course it could have worked but it's leaving a lot to chance and gambling isn't a good way to run a club in the long term.
IF and it is a big IF, we get rid of the big wages, and some of the youngsters fulfil their promise then we can use that as a basis to rebuild.
At the same time if we are buying players who's value is likely to increase then that makes it a easier investment for Tan even if we aren't promoted.
The current managed decline of the team is inevitable given the reduction of income - I think it shows good leadership by the board that they are taking steps to address it, rather than doing what fans would do and going for boom or bust re-promotion with a squad that clearly isn't good enough. How many big sides have we seen try that over the years and end up getting relegated to league one?
It takes a bit of readjustment in the mindset of fans, but I think I'll be able to enjoy this season and feel positive about the future.
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
You could easily be right with Tan, but he obviously still has an interest in football, he now owns 3 clubs again.
There aren't too many times over the past few years when investing more in us would have been worthwhile. We could easily have spend an extra 20-30 million and still have been favourites to be relegated in the premier league, and spending 10-20 million more in the championship probably wouldn't have made us favourites to go up in any of our seasons here. Of course it could have worked but it's leaving a lot to chance and gambling isn't a good way to run a club in the long term.
IF and it is a big IF, we get rid of the big wages, and some of the youngsters fulfil their promise then we can use that as a basis to rebuild.
At the same time if we are buying players who's value is likely to increase then that makes it a easier investment for Tan even if we aren't promoted.
The current managed decline of the team is inevitable given the reduction of income - I think it shows good leadership by the board that they are taking steps to address it, rather than doing what fans would do and going for boom or bust re-promotion with a squad that clearly isn't good enough. How many big sides have we seen try that over the years and end up getting relegated to league one?
It takes a bit of readjustment in the mindset of fans, but I think I'll be able to enjoy this season and feel positive about the future.
Another major component is the Sala fee, which I believe is still hanging over our heads.
I have no doubt FIFA or UEFA will find for Nantes and we will be forced to pay quite a chunk of the reported fee.
Any responsible club would be continually making a provision for that
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Monster munch
The board are always damned if they do and damned if they don't. They will never please everyone.
Its not exactly wonderful football with the current standard but good to see he's bringing in the youth who do look promising. Would like to think a 6th place may be achievable but won't be crying if we don't. Money is tight and I accept that, some of the mental contracts from Warnocks era are shocking so at least the club are trying to live within their means.
Just enjoying getting down there, have a beer or 4 and watch the game.
This every day of the week and twice on Sunday - don't care who owns then or who plays to an extent as long as the players play to their best - we know owners in the main are ore out for themselves 👍
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Re: Dalman and Choo have to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
2014/15 - 11th
2015/16 - 8th
2016/17 - 12th
2020/21 - 8th
Idiot.