No thank you
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No thank you
We cancelled his contract, It's not an option anyway. I've never seen a player where the fans and the player had no idea what was going to happen when he was in possession. He was like Frank Spencer with a ball at his feet and had the touch of a jagged rock.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY
Yup, head down and locked into "I'm going to do my own thing" mode.
Not a team player, and as you said - an awful first touch!
However, In full-stride with space in front of him, he could be devastating (perhaps 'devastating is too strong a word, but certainly very effective).
Too creative for us.
We are in the process of culling any creativity this squad has and filling the gaps with cut price kids. It goes right against that plan.
I don't understand this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
13 goals and 10 assists in his time here.
In 87 games.
I am saying he is too much of a flair player. All of our flair players are either crocked or loaned out. Our manager is not a fan of the luxury player and is happy to see players like Murphy and Whyte on loan at other clubs and persist with his brand of footballing dambusters.Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior
I am saying that it would be another wage when we seem to be loaning out anything but the bare bones to save as much as possible. We would prefer to put a cheap kid in his place and model it as giving youth a chance when it is nothing more than a cost cutting measure and playing them out of necessity because our squad is threadbare.
He's a hit and run playerQuote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
Flair would be a hard sell.
I liked him in patches, but he wasn't flair or creative.
I mean flair as in he tries to beat a man, doesn't lump it straight forward, doesn't track back.Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior
We have no wingers and have loaned out Whyte and Murphy. That shows anybody how high wingers are on the clubs list of priorities.
Knocking the ball 10 yards ahead of yourself and chasing after it isn't flair mate. He had a touch like an elephant and literally knocked the ball forward to chase it.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
It's too much flair for Mick.Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior
Mick is more a 'Ave It type of bloke.
We get your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
the lower league game needs more like him, yes his only trick was the knock ball past player and beat said player, but when attacking it was exciting, when it worked you were up on your feet roaring him on
It was exciting at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
I'm just saying I don't think it qualified as flair.
He was strong, quick and had a decent shot on him, but he wasn't what I'd call intelligent or skillful. Not sure you can put your chips in with NML and moan about lack of skill in our style of play.
Warnock's best football here was with him in the side though whether that was with Hoilett and Zohore or the Premier League days at Brighton or Man United but those moments were far too rare.
Hope he gets back on his feet and then does work to help others.
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior
That was when Warnock played him and hoilett on the right sides. He changed it after a few games (5 wins in a row wasn't it) and they never had the same threat again.Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
Give it a rest your boring kentQuote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
Seems strange he doesn't have any club after an OK stint at Boro. Let's hope he isn't suspended again.
Mendez-Laing down the left side was a monster. He had a blistering start to that season partly due to that and we rarely saw him in that position again. Baffling.Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior
I'll post what I want. Thanks for the advice though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Hill
Not sure why posting something fairly obvious gets people so worked up. Tell me what flair players Mick had in the team Saturday? He doesn't seem to like them. Dembe doesn't think he'd be a flair player but I think he is. I know if NML was in our team he would be the only one likely to do a stepover, at least until Mick introduced fines for doing them.
It isn't my intention when I post to wind people up but if it does then it is a little bonus.
Flair players like NML , Gavin Whyte with Arter and Wintle in the middle.
Lewj should be next manager.🤣
Any worse than what we've got there now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Did you watch the game Saturday?
We had two shots on target all game. One per half, at home against the footballing giant that is Bournemouth. Yeah, the current crop are outstanding.
Add those two shots on target to the one shot on target we had in 90 plus minutes at Coventry.
Yeah stick with what we've got I say. We're putting teams to the sword without breaking a sweat. 👍
Out of interest what do you think should happen next in an ideal world?Quote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
In an ideal world we get a director of football in.Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
The money Tan would pay this individual would be more than saved by the football savvy he would bring to the football operations. Large wages and long contracts for average players would be a thing of the past.
I would bring in a manager whose style fits in with the way the academy play and at least try to play some modern football where we try to keep it a bit
attack and drop the underdog attitude. We are as big as teams like Bournemouth. I could take Warnock bigging up teams in the Premier League (just) but not the Bournemouths of this world.
If our aim is to just tread water for a few years then why not get a more forward thinking manager now. Or do we just ask the new fella to change it up overnight with Mick's squad and act as though the situation has crept up on us, like we have a tendency to do.
I would use academy players when they are ready. I cannot agree under any circumstances that our academy is producing players of the required quality overnight in such numbers having produced nothing for seasons. One or two maybe but not to that level.
I would look into why we are signing players to supplement the midfield and then making excuses and loaning them out.
Of course the above would be somebody who is not a yes man to Tan (The DOF) and somebody that may well tell him he hasn't been doing things the right way, which isn't something that happens here.
So, in short I'd bring in a director of football, I'd bring in a younger manager that has some clue what a modern football team plays like that is more aligned with what we're asking the academy to do and I would not force players into the team if they are not good enough yet, that only ends one way.
Finally I'd look at why, at a time when we have next to no money, we seem to think we have the luxury to sign players and loan them out. If we were rolling in it then yes take a chance. We need that money spent on somebody featuring in the first team now.
I'd like to see us bring in a director of football too, but many of the things you'd want a DoF to be doing we seem to have already started - i.e. bringing youth through, targeting players who have the potential to gain in value etc. So I think the right kind of voices must be getting heard from somewhere. That's ultimately what matters - not whether or not there's someone with a specific job title.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
Of course I'd like a more progressive playing style. That isn't going to happen under mick, but that's where we are. If mick keeps us away from trouble while we clear out the high earners and develop some of the young players then that leaves us in a good position to bring in a more modern manager net time around perhaps. Not ideal, but it is what it is.
Finally I think the Wintle deal is one of the smartest things we've done in some time.
We've picked up a highly rated player on a free, he will gain championship experience while someone else pays his wages then come back to us as a more valuable player at the time we are losing vaulks, pack and ralls due to their contracts expiring.
that suggests an element of forward planning that has been missing from this club for a long time.
If we kept him here it would either mean he gets less game time, or we have to pay one of the existing midfield their inflated wages to sit on the bench.
He might be a better player than our existing players already - but with or without him we won't be going up this season, so we are better off planning for a couple of seasons ahead.
Lewj wanted us to sign Harry Arter. Now Wintle is suddenly the next Pirlo and our youngsters are not up to it.
Well im backing our youngsters to succeed. Few old heads out in the summer and the rebuild continues.
I would say we need a director of football because I don't think the people we have there at the moment know what is required or have the knowledge to deliver it. We shall see in time but just throwing kids in is not evidence of a great academy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
You've said yourself you would like a more progressive style and that won't happen under Mick. Surely it makes sense then that continuing with Mick and giving him money to carry this on is just wasted time and money?
We will have to disagree on the Wintle deal too. Signing a player and loaning him to a club where he is playing better than our current midfield is good business? I'm not sure I understand what a good and clever bit of business is if actively strengthening a Championship rival and continuing with our toothless midfield is an example of it.
People also talk of the inflated wages like they are something a previous owner and board gave out. These wages were discussed and signed off by the same people we will be letting spend money going forward. If people can't see any issue with that then I can't really paint it any more clearly.
We can moan about Malky shafting the owner and board with some of his signings, we can moan Trollope, Neil Harris and the like were rubbish and that Warnock built an expensive squad and legged it but there are only so many constant factors here. The owner and board who oversaw almost all of what these people did and picked them (with the exception of Malky) are the only constant.
These people oversee the appointment of managers and signings but then point the finger elsewhere when things go wrong.
You can bet your bottom dollar that if this throw in the kids experiment doesn't work then it will be Mick's fault and he will pay the price while nothing above him changes.
Would I trust the current lot to put an academy in place and know what finances and expertise it would take to produce a conveyor belt of future stars? No. I wouldn't trust them to put the cones out straight before training if I'm honest.
I think everyone is aware we've made mistakes, but we do seem to be doing things differently for the time being at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
A director of football might improve things, or if we appoint the wrong one could be a disaster. Christ there were even people on here hoping that Warnock would be "moved upstairs" not too long ago.
There are many different kinds of footballing directors, with completely different remits - what's important is someone is looking out for the longer term interests of the club in footbll terms, rather than the manager who will understandably always be short term thinking due to the precarious nature of their job.
MM being seemingly overruled on Marley Watkins would seem to suggest an element of that is already happening.
Or maybe loaning out a midfielder that could and should be in the team and Marley Watkins being rejected points to us having zero money to spend and that we are saving what we can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
For me the DOF issue is a simple one. Do I think they would do a better job at identifying possible signings, negotiating contracts and knowing what direction the club should be going in than the people we have there currently. I have no doubt that they would.
If anything it is quite scary that the Watkins deal was overruled as it shows that the manager has very little say on this. He wouldn't have broken the bank in Championship financial terms, yet was rejected.
I also don't think Mick would be picking as many academy players if he wasn't specifically told to from above. When a manager can't put his stamp on the team because other people have other ideas then that is when cracks start to appear.
Back on the subject of NML my guess is he's still got a problem so no-one would touch him with a barge pole under those circumstances.I always wondered why he blew so hot and cold and that would account for it.
so you want a director of football, bit you also think the manager should have a free hand to bring in whatever players he wants?Quote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
I'm not sure you've thought this through.
Looking at the players we've recently brought in (transfers or academy) and players we've let go (sales or not renewing deals) it looks like we have somewhat turned a corner - there is more football know how here than previously though obviously this can go further.Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
Academy reportedly is playing more like first team while still a more attractive version.
However, I wonder if Tan is ready to trust a younger manager having had bad experiences with past choices and I wonder if that trust is more likely if younger person has an older head next to him or someone Tan is familiar with and likes?
In order to change the style within the 90 minutes we probably (not definitely) need a different manager and in order to keep fans coming back next year we probably need to send them a signal towards end of the year/in the summer.
We probably don't have funds to buy Mick out and hire new manager and fund new signing. That means doing something bold away from dugout without completely changing what we have been doing for past 2 years...
My ideal next step is to see if we can get.the Norwich City DoF to leave them and come here on the basis that:
I) it sends a more obvious signal that things have changed to keep interest up,
ii) it helps build that relationship with Tan a year early so younger manager can come in and continue to take us from Jackett's Wolves to Nuno's
iii) it's not completely unrealistic on basis that Norwich might want to change and he might want to change if they're relegated again and we're not a million miles from where Norwich were when he arrived. If we can sell us as a better prospect on basis of bigger stadium and perhaps Tan being willing to spend a bit more in the future than Norwich can then it might be possible.
We're already evolving but perhaps need to make it more obvious and perhaps need to be willing to go a bit further than previously planned.
I totally agree that this is something that we should do.
Sadly, if we were looking at anybody in the Norwich area we would probably be more likely to bring on board the CEO of Colman's than the Norwich City DOF.
Just to add, we have a fairly strong connection with Wolves already since Mick came in and Norwich DoF spent a couple of years at Wolves - admittedly the two years directly after Mick left - which might make Mick happier living with a DoF for the year.
I very much doubt he'll be leaving Norwich to come here. he seems highly rated and even if Norwich go straight back down they are in a better position than us.Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
It would take a lot of things going for us but wouldn't you agree that Norwich will want to change something if they get relegated again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Of course, DoF is meant to provide stability despite what happens on the pitch so is the least likely thing they change. For that reason I would say it's very unrealistic and would take him wanting to leave as well.
I think it answers "in an ideal world' without saying something completely unrealistic though.
Says the bloke who is more than happy with 3 shots on target in 180 minutes plus extra time. Nice one 😄Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Then again you did say survival is success so if you set the bar low enough then anybody can achieve success I suppose.
It was good viewing. That kind of thing would have kept my daughter interested, instead we all know what happened after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee