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I do wonder if those type of tough , manual or dirty jobs will now attract a decent wage for Abattoirs , Farming Labour , HGV , Care Workers ,Cleaner and hospitality industry workers , as we see a welcome decline on agencies exploiting European migrants workers who are willing to work for far less than a UK worker ..
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Saying that Im looking forward to the punch ups in supermarkets this Christmas with food shortages.
I do know of one HGV driver who is over the moon he just got a £5k rise
If wages rise, the cost of living will rise with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I know of a Doctor who had a HGV licence from his Army days 20 year s ago, that has just been written too by the Department of Transport.
Highlighting the opportunity that exists right now.
I've seen the same letter.Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bluebirds27
Signed by no less than Baroness Vere of Norbiton and one or two others.
https://frinkiac.com/video/S06E14/pc...N3nF-Nzhg=.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
There's lots of emerging anecdotal evidence that what are generally considered working class jobs are seeing some rises above the norm. That's great news, as long as inflation doesn't wipe it out, or it lead to pricing them out of being competitive.
This is probably the time for decades for kids leaving education to get a job and for people looking for news jobs. No one wants supply chain problems, but there is a quite clear potential positive here for many of us and our kids.
lets hope that Agencies now disappear and companies take people on and offer them job security and value them, as in the past they have just been a commodity to pick up an use and then discard when they are done withQuote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
And zero hour contracts abolished forever
I totally get how they can exploit many people, but some people love zero hour contracts. If you have inconsistent work or are a tradesman with unreliable hours or caring responsibilities, it can work in your favour to not have any fixed work commitments, but the ability to earn when you want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Its been emotional
I think having a right to a contract after a set period is a better way to go, personally.
That's capitalism for youQuote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Higher wages will just mean higher prices. For those industrys which wont be getting an increase inflation will cripple us, not to mention those on universal credit.
Especially now they are knocking 80 quid a month off itQuote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
Report on Wales today about a woman from Bettws, Bridgend , a very poor area and what it would mean to her losing 20 quid a week , it's not far off a food bill
It’s a joke for Brexiteers (the architects of it, not the fools who followed them) to claim it was all about raising wages. Laughable. The main reason - apart from xenophobia- was to trash the working pay and conditions and minimum standards that the EU (including UK) had in place.
Yep. The problem is £20 to the person making these ridiculous decisions is a glass of wine. Those in government simply cant comprehend that £20 a week to someone on universal credit is the difference between them just staying afloat or drowning.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Xenophobia was a huge part of brexit , take our borders back , Eastern Europeans taking all our jobs , they are trying to alter the shape of apples etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blue
Grant Schapps said he really understood what people are going throughQuote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
Which is of course cobblers
If prices go up with wages then why is minimum wage such a good idea?
Nonsense of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blue
But it is typical that whenever there is good news, in the absence of any sensible way to counter it, people just call other people racists and xenophobes.
As has been pointed out ad nauseum, the UK always exceeded the EU in terms of conditions at almost every level; maternity leave, holiday pay, minimum wage (which doesnt exist in the EU) were always higher in the UK than the EU. It is an element of the EU which is wholly positive btw - it's helped to raise standards in eastern europe etc.
The argument you make is thus pretty nonsensical, which is probably why you just call people racist.
Incidentally, the hope of raising wages at the lower end was a key plank of the leave campaign - even the In campaign admitted it could be true! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...aign-says.html
There's a reason lower income groups overwhelmingly voted for it and it's not because they are thick and believe everything a paper tells them, or because they are xenophobes.
Well there is a reasonable summary for causes of the collective idiocy that gripped 51% of voters on that shameful day here:Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes...vour_of_Brexit
It doesn't seem to mention an aspiration to raise wages for "less skilled" workers but the other reasons you dismiss seem front and central like 1/3rd of voters mentioned immigration and a half "sovereignty". (Those terms are academic codes for racism BTW.) It also points to the age, gullibility in swallowing rightwing media-fueled tropes, and, educational profile of leave voters being a little closer to the characterizations you dismiss.
Sorry to piss on your chips.
Sorry, you are wrong. Wanting a different immigration system does not equal racism. It may be academic code for racism, but academics suffer from confirmation bias more than anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
Likewise, sovereignty means having greater control over decisions. Estonia wanted sovereignty when it left the USSR. Scottish Independence is about sovereignty. Ireland wanted sovereignty in the 1920's. You need to seperate the two concepts out, rather than apply your intepretation of it and assume everyone has the same conclusion.
Incidentally, votes for far-right and racist parties are far higher in the EU than in western nations outside it, which rather suggests that your analysis isnt true. If people who had concerns over laissez-faire immigration policies or wanted more control over their own laws were just out and out racists, then this would be reflected in which parties they vote for.
Sorry to piss on your fries.
It's not my analysis. I posted evidence. You're conjecturing ... again.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
It's your analysis that wanting managed immigration and greater national sovereignty is "academic codewords for being racist". I'm saying that is fundamentally wrong. Equally, if I said Plaid Cymru or the SNP's driving force was racism and xenophobia, I would be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
I'm also saying the hotbed for global far-right support is in the EU. It is. Loo kat Hungary, 80% support EU membership, and Viktor Orban gets 50% of the vote. A clear cross-over. Even Michel Barnier, as EU as it gets was talking about sovereignty and limiting non EU immigration in the last few weeks
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/25/u...gbr/index.html
Personally I think you should reset your bias and look at these things afresh
Actually you're wrong. By definition all geo-political barriers that prevent the free movement of people are forms of looser or tighter racism.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
That is a plainly absurd statement. If you believe that then you believe that New Zealand and Canada (not to mention everyone else) are currently run by racist governments.Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
I dont doubt that an irrational fear of foreigners is a driving force for some people in how they vote, but you totally over estimate that driving force.
The reality is that the UK will probably become the country in europe that has the fairest immigration policy that bases it's criteria on skills rather than any other factor such as where someone happens to have been born
Use your grey matter. It clearly isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I paraphrase, but you are essentially saying anyone who doesn't support the free movement of people (presumably globally?) is racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
Thats just ridiculous. You can choose to not support a laissez faire immigration policy for dozens of reasons.
It's like saying anyone who opposes the free movement of money across borders does so because they hate money.
Someone can object to how something is managed or organised without objecting to the whole concept of something. You can disagree with an immigration policy without objecting to immigration as a concept and certainly without meaning you are racist towards the people involved
So do you agree with say someone working at Dominoes on a zero hour contract gets called in for 12 middayQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
The shop is very quiet so gets sent home at 1 but then gets asked to come back at 6 because it might be busier then or if it gets busier sooner we will give you are call.
No, in the example given, I dont agree and as said I think people should be offered a contract after a relatively short period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Its been emotional
However, sometimes zero hour contracts suit people. They may want the flexibility for example. It works for some, not for others.
As a main job, I am totally with you - you cannot plan your finances with a zero hour contract at all.
I could have had a job with a company that was subbing work from Welsh water. They paid lads £11 an hour and paid travel time and digs etc. I was less experienced so would have started on £9.50/or £10 the lads told me when trying to convince me to apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
I got £18 an hour off the agency.
Xenophobia was a fecking massive factor in brexitQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Boris and his mob stoked the fires and watched it all burn
People can deny this all day long if they want , I don't give a feck
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1930558.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by 19bluebirds27
“We were quite surprised,” he said. “I’m sure pay and conditions for HGV drivers have improved, but ultimately I have decided to carry on in my role at an investment bank. My wife has never driven anything larger than a Volvo, so she is also intending to decline the exciting opportunity.
:hehe:
Are there any depths to this Government's incompetence?
Bizarre some folk in this thread thinking better wages is not a positive , and folks suggesting folk don't get paid enough and live on the breadline ??
From Bloomberg Article Aug 21
U.K. wage growth hit a record as companies posted more than 1 million new job vacancies for the first time in an unprecedented*scramble*for staff following the loosening of lockdown rules.
Average earnings in the three months through June surged a record 8.8% from a year earlier, the Office for National Statistics said Tuesday. While the figure partly reflects distortions created by the pandemic, underlying wage pressures are also gathering pace.
Meanwhile here in Poland I’m busily employing 400+ people to replace the 400+ jobs (plus supply chain jobs) being lost in UK. Our customers have decided not to place any more business in the UK due to the spiralling costs.
It's bizarre that the Tories who fight tooth and nail against increased wages and minimum wages could inadvertently end up helping increase wages ..Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Those increases though will eat into their corporate pals profits and soon we will see more reductions in corporate taxes and more increases into taxes for working class People.
Increased wages is good.... But what Tories do is screw the working classes who may benefit from those increases with extra taxes & reduced benefits, while further creating conditions where their corporate chums pay less tax.
Trickle down economics pioneered by Reagan and Thatcher ended up with creating a huge divide in society, it doesn't work.
A freeze was put on benefits when Cameron came inQuote:
Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird
For about 6 years
Now someone on 40 k is going to miss a pay rise
But people on benefits struggle and slashing the benefit bill causes so many problems for those dependent on them
Weve also got our public sector on a pay freeze.
It is Boris , also blurted out the other day that companies should pay their workers more and rightly so , back door socialist ideals ?Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird
Not totally trueQuote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Unions representing hundreds of thousands of local government workers have rejected a 1.5% pay offer, describing it as “insulting” to staff who worked hard to keep vital services running throughout the coronavirus pandemic.
The offer came despite the 2021-2022 public-sector pay freeze set out by chancellor Rishi Sunak in November’s spending review, which has meant no annual increase for all but the lowest-paid civil servants. The offer for council staff was tabled by the local government employers, rather than the Ministry of Housing Communities and Local Government.
Unison, the GMB and Unite – which represent 750,000 council and school-support staff across England, Wales and Northern Ireland – said the Local Government Association’s 1.5% offer was “disappointing” when it was made earlier this month. Each has now turned down the offer on behalf of members.
Jon Richards, head of local government at Unison – which is the largest union force among council staff – said 1.5% “simply isn’t good enough”.