When is this spineless answer to Putin going to stop?

Now is the time to hit Russia with a strategic hammer blow. There is no point in negotiating with Putin and the only way a palace coup will take place will be if Russia is hit and hit hard. His coterie of sycophants will hopefully then topple him and make humanity and common sense prevail. NATO has overwhelming force of arms in every department. The sight of Macron sitting at the end of a 40ft. table having “peace talks” with Putin must rank as one of the most humiliating scenes in politics of modern times. If Putin wins then where does he stop because his perception of NATO is an organisation being both spineless and gutless. Ben Wallace, Defence Minister, epitomises this.
Lessons from history must be learned. The time for vigils, prayers, acceptance of refugees, clapping Ukrainian politicians, professing solidarity for Ukraine and the like is past. Putin doesn’t give a shit. It’s time to take some action and not just sanctions.!!!

There seems to be very little that can be done

In reality Ukraine is being fed to Putin in exchange for peace in Europe

It's a load of cack

If NATO gets stuck in, then 💩tin will be able to say “I told ewe”, even though he started this thing.
The answer is first the Russian people to topple him, so the real war is the information one.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

There seems to be very little that can be done

In reality Ukraine is being fed to Putin in exchange for peace in Europe

It's a load of cack

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Russians are tough...my arse...the internet is down and the banks have no money they cant buy anything and there's no footie....boo ****ing hoo

NATO is a defense organisation, so they can't initiate an attack another country. Any action would have to be taken outside of NATO as things stand.

NATO will look after their own. They won't get involved militarily unless Putin invades a NATO country. Then it's WWIII.
Sanctions are already starting to hurt Russia, but Putin cares more about lines on a map than the welfare of his own citizens.

Best option : his own cronies realise that he's unhinged and take him out.
Second best :Black ops take him out
Worst option, Nato fires a shot - Putin fires a nuke.

This is a six-minute video of an English-speaking Russian who has an entirely different perspective on what's happening in Ukraine today and why. He also mentions uncomfortable reminders about all those freedom and democracy loving bombs that rained down on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan by NATO and its member countries.

A Little insight into the "Russian invasion". Warning: This isn't mainstream. https://www.bitchute.com/video/GAH7af5xe3Qp/

So Nuclear weapons, whilst being touted as a deterrent, also allow crackpot Dictators to cold bloodily murder thousands of innocent people, and blow buildings to bits, and basically just get away with it, whilst the rest of the world looks on.
What a monster we’ve created!

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

Now is the time to hit Russia with a strategic hammer blow. There is no point in negotiating with Putin and the only way a palace coup will take place will be if Russia is hit and hit hard. His coterie of sycophants will hopefully then topple him and make humanity and common sense prevail. NATO has overwhelming force of arms in every department. The sight of Macron sitting at the end of a 40ft. table having “peace talks” with Putin must rank as one of the most humiliating scenes in politics of modern times. If Putin wins then where does he stop because his perception of NATO is an organisation being both spineless and gutless. Ben Wallace, Defence Minister, epitomises this.
Lessons from history must be learned. The time for vigils, prayers, acceptance of refugees, clapping Ukrainian politicians, professing solidarity for Ukraine and the like is past. Putin doesn’t give a shit. It’s time to take some action and not just sanctions.!!!

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what do you suggest?

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Originally Posted by delmbox

what do you suggest?

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My preferred option would be to inform Putin that unless hostilities cease by a certain time and date Moscow would be erased from the map. This is obviously not going to happen as unfortunately no Western leader comes close to JFK. At the least we should impose a no fly zone and make sure that no seaborne landings around Odessa are fruitless with the strongest appropriate defensive weapons put in place.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

NATO is a defense organisation, so they can't initiate an attack another country. Any action would have to be taken outside of NATO as things stand.

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Bosnia, Afghanistan, Libya.....

The rhetoric is one thing - with Article 5 being an exception to the normal rule - the reality another.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

This is a six-minute video of an English-speaking Russian who has an entirely different perspective on what's happening in Ukraine today and why. He also mentions uncomfortable reminders about all those freedom and democracy loving bombs that rained down on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan by NATO and its member countries.

A Little insight into the "Russian invasion". Warning: This isn't mainstream. https://www.bitchute.com/video/GAH7af5xe3Qp/

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Is it insight? Or is it just some bloke's opinion that you happen to like or agree with?

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Originally Posted by bobh

Best option : his own cronies realise that he's unhinged and take him out.
Second best :Black ops take him out
Worst option, Nato fires a shot - Putin fires a nuke.

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Then it's game over for Russia as USA can out nuke them. If Putin is suffering from dementia or has a terminal illness and doesn't give a phuck anymore.Then all his family will die too.

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

My preferred option would be to inform Putin that unless hostilities cease by a certain time and date Moscow would be erased from the map. This is obviously not going to happen as unfortunately no Western leader comes close to JFK. At the least we should impose a no fly zone and make sure that no seaborne landings around Odessa are fruitless with the strongest appropriate defensive weapons put in place.

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What happens if hostilities don't cease by the time and date given? (as would likely be the case)

What's your next move?

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Originally Posted by delmbox

What happens if hostilities don't cease by the time and date given? (as would likely be the case)

What's your next move?

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Attachment 4829

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Originally Posted by delmbox

What happens if hostilities don't cease by the time and date given? (as would likely be the case)

What's your next move?

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Moscow would be erased from the map.
Can’t you read !!!! 😁

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

This is a six-minute video of an English-speaking Russian who has an entirely different perspective on what's happening in Ukraine today and why.

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A Russian has a different perspective? Amazing.

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

My preferred option would be to inform Putin that unless hostilities cease by a certain time and date Moscow would be erased from the map. This is obviously not going to happen as unfortunately no Western leader comes close to JFK. At the least we should impose a no fly zone and make sure that no seaborne landings around Odessa are fruitless with the strongest appropriate defensive weapons put in place.

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I'm glad you're not in charge of diplomatic relations :hehe: threatening to murder 12 million Russian civilians probably ain't the best idea. And the consensus seems to be that trying to impose a no-fly zone would also likely lead to nuclear war as it would mean the world's two largest air forces going head to head.

This 'NATO can out-nuke them' idea is a funny one. Dr. David Kelly helped expose the Soviet Union's biological weapons programme decades ago; the implication being that bio weapons would be used in conjunction with nuclear weapons to ensure total annihilation. Nobody is winning that fight.

A diplomatic resolution is surely the preferred way to solve this? Western leaders need to handle this one with care.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Moscow would be erased from the map.
Can’t you read !!!! ��

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It's a plan genius in its simplicity

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Originally Posted by Raymond Holt

I'm glad you're not in charge of diplomatic relations :hehe: threatening to murder 12 million Russian civilians probably ain't the best idea. And the consensus seems to be that trying to impose a no-fly zone would also likely lead to nuclear war as it would mean the world's two largest air forces going head to head.

This 'NATO can out-nuke them' idea is a funny one. Dr. David Kelly helped expose the Soviet Union's biological weapons programme decades ago; the implication being that bio weapons would be used in conjunction with nuclear weapons to ensure total annihilation. Nobody is winning that fight.

A diplomatic resolution is surely the preferred way to solve this? Western leaders need to handle this one with care.

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Crazily the world's two largest air forces are the US Air Force and the US Navy. Obviously if you're lumping them into one country Russia is second though

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Crazily the world's two largest air forces are the US Air Force and the US Navy. Obviously if you're lumping them into one country Russia is second though

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Ooh, good stat :thumbup:

He will stop when he has enough of Ukraine he wants , and slowly but surely we will start to drop away sanctions , and Germany will cozy back up to them for the gas it so desperately needs.

He wins.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Crazily the world's two largest air forces are the US Air Force and the US Navy. Obviously if you're lumping them into one country Russia is second though

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Many of Russia's pilots are inexperienced and some are just not very good

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

This is a six-minute video of an English-speaking Russian who has an entirely different perspective on what's happening in Ukraine today and why. He also mentions uncomfortable reminders about all those freedom and democracy loving bombs that rained down on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan by NATO and its member countries.

A Little insight into the "Russian invasion". Warning: This isn't mainstream. https://www.bitchute.com/video/GAH7af5xe3Qp/

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And I voted for “regime change” in 2005 in the UK because of what happened in Iraq, I also supported stop the war movements financially and by other methods. I had the chance to those things. Does your typical Russian watching state controlled media and banned from using websites which portray a differing view have the chance to do the same? So I resent some sanctimonious Russian preaching to me about not supporting the actions taken by his country in the interests of “denazifying” Ukraine - what a sick word that is coming from the mouth of the modern day Hitler.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

So Nuclear weapons, whilst being touted as a deterrent, also allow crackpot Dictators to cold bloodily murder thousands of innocent people, and blow buildings to bits, and basically just get away with it, whilst the rest of the world looks on.
What a monster we’ve created!

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Exactly and a narrative that often gets left out of these conversations.

Deterrent they are not!

Various disarmament treaties have never gone far enough - INF Treaty (1987) and START I (1991) and START 2 (2003 I think).

Remember that the US withdrew from the INF Treaty in 2019 under president Donald Trump!!

Why have they not resulted in the eradication of nuclear weapons.... in the US the arms industry have lobbied, bribed, lied and cajoled to force the US to keep weapons while Russia.. well, under Putin have always been bad actors.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

He will stop when he has enough of Ukraine he wants , and slowly but surely we will start to drop away sanctions , and Germany will cozy back up to them for the gas it so desperately needs.

He wins.

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I don’t think so, it’s a wake up call for Western Europe, putin is a an arsehole who can’t be reasoned with. A massive mistake by the Germans to be be so reliant on them for Gas etc, I’m not sure where we get ours from but only 5% from Russia. I can see them being frozen out of everything now for years until Putin has gone.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

And I voted for “regime change” in 2005 in the UK because of what happened in Iraq, I also supported stop the war movements financially and by other methods. I had the chance to those things. Does your typical Russian watching state controlled media and banned from using websites which portray a differing view have the chance to do the same? So I resent some sanctimonious Russian preaching to me about not supporting the actions taken by his country in the interests of “denazifying” Ukraine - what a sick word that is coming from the mouth of the modern day Hitler.

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Even more worse as Zelensky has family who were killed by the nazi regime apparently….putin accusing him of being part of a regime that killed his own family ffs. How low can he go? We always here about these tough Russians that can take anything, where are they now? They know what’s really going on by now….time to rise up

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Originally Posted by goats

Even more worse as Zelensky has family who were killed by the nazi regime apparently….putin accusing him of being part of a regime that killed his own family ffs. How low can he go? We always here about these tough Russians that can take anything, where are they now? They know what’s really going on by now….time to rise up

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They’re shelling nuclear energy plants now :facepalm:

Unfortunately this thing is going to run and run. Until Putin is somehow removed from power then we need to prepare for years of this turmoil. The Article 5 of NATO is all well and good but if the Americans get cold feet and don’t want to get involved in another European war then Putin has the whole continent in his pocket.

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Originally Posted by Grangenders

Unfortunately this thing is going to run and run. Until Putin is somehow removed from power then we need to prepare for years of this turmoil. The Article 5 of NATO is all well and good but if the Americans get cold feet and don’t want to get involved in another European war then Putin has the whole continent in his pocket.

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If Putin steps into another country we will have a huge war, no question about it. I think behind the scenes, moves to take him out will be underway from now on….

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Originally Posted by goats

If Putin steps into another country we will have a huge war, no question about it. I think behind the scenes, moves to take him out will be underway from now on….

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Absolutely. Putin knows this though and i very much doubt his plan is to go for Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia because they are in Nato (As much as he'd like to). Its as if he's been given free reign of Ukraine.
Although Moldova and Georgia are getting very sweaty as they aren't part of it so wouldn't surprise me if he goes for them next depending how this turns out.

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Originally Posted by Grangenders

Unfortunately this thing is going to run and run. Until Putin is somehow removed from power then we need to prepare for years of this turmoil. The Article 5 of NATO is all well and good but if the Americans get cold feet and don’t want to get involved in another European war then Putin has the whole continent in his pocket.

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Uncle Sam would never get cold feet when it comes to the Russkies. It'll take just one russian renegade or soldier to enter, assault, fire a gun or fart in a Nato country and the yanks will be all bets in, pummelling Russian territory with cruise missiles. I wonder how many attack submarines are currently in the Baltic sea at the moment doing laps with itchy trigger fingers.
That's what i'm scared of the most.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

He also mentions uncomfortable reminders about all those freedom and democracy loving bombs that rained down on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan by NATO and its member countries.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/GAH7af5xe3Qp/

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Thing is... most on here, as thoughtful and intelligent adults can hold a number of conflicting opinions at the same time....

NATO has been pretty useless for 20 years, overreached and provide protectionism to larger member states to continue to control oil and infrastructure - BUT still offers some protection to members so sovereign states have every right to join, or not.

We can be critical (I have and continue to be) of our own governments who 'rained down bombs on Libya, Serbia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan' by NATO and its member countries' and STILL be critical of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

We can also be critical and cynical of our own governments and NATO's lack of response in Yemen and other countries and still see Russia as a bad actor under Putin.

We can also all acknowledge that we have failed for years to counter Russia's misbehaviour - funding of terrorists, appeasing bad actors, funding misinformation, buying political favours, laundering money and poisoning people on British soil.

All of the above positions can be true and coexist in our minds. We don't have to appease Russia's behaviour because our governments have also acted badly.

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Originally Posted by Monster munch

Absolutely. Putin knows this though and i very much doubt his plan is to go for Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia because they are in Nato (As much as he'd like to). Its as if he's been given free reign of Ukraine.
Although Moldova and Georgia are getting very sweaty as they aren't part of it so wouldn't surprise me if he goes for them next depending how this turns out.

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Both Moldova and Georgia have areas of their countries under Russian control/influence and which are off-limits to the two governments within whose boundaries they fall.

Is it possible that the reason the infamous column of tanks/artillery north of Kiev is not moving is not that there is a problem with it per se but rather that why should Putin risk losing thousands more Russian troops when he can first destroy the city as he has done in the south of Ukraine, and probably the morale of the people, using long range weapons like rockets and missiles? The fact that this is mass murder of civilians presumably doesn't concern him.

African Bluebird - I have sent you a PM.

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Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird

We can also be critical and cynical of our own governments and NATO's lack of response in Yemen and other countries and still see Russia as a bad actor under Putin.

We can also all acknowledge that we have failed for years to counter Russia's misbehaviour - funding of terrorists, appeasing bad actors, funding misinformation, buying political favours, laundering money and poisoning people on British soil.

All of the above positions can be true and coexist in our minds. We don't have to appease Russia's behaviour because our governments have also acted badly.

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Agree with the jist of your post and much of what you've said. But if NATO responded to the conflict in Yemen they'd be fighting themselves. The UK trains Saudi pilots and BAE has thousands of staff there maintaining the Saudi aircraft's weaponry.

https://questions-statements.parliam...21-06-04/10169

It seems we are also funding our own "information" campaigns in states surrounding Russia:

https://declassifieduk.org/uk-spends...around-russia/

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Crazily the world's two largest air forces are the US Air Force and the US Navy. Obviously if you're lumping them into one country Russia is second though

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Someone is being paid by Hollywood to promote the forthcoming Top Gun film.

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Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird

Exactly and a narrative that often gets left out of these conversations.

Deterrent they are not!

Various disarmament treaties have never gone far enough - INF Treaty (1987) and START I (1991) and START 2 (2003 I think).

Remember that the US withdrew from the INF Treaty in 2019 under president Donald Trump!!

Why have they not resulted in the eradication of nuclear weapons.... in the US the arms industry have lobbied, bribed, lied and cajoled to force the US to keep weapons while Russia.. well, under Putin have always been bad actors.

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The Trouble with disarmament treaties is that ALL parties need to abide by it, and with Russia thats never going to happen, so why run the risk of us, france and the USA disarming and leaving ourselves open to Russia ? ? ? he wouldn't be stopping at the Ukrainian border if he was the only one holding the button for Nukes, it'll be, free pass or I'm pressing it

so in that aspect it is a deterrent