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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ssia-clampdown
Why is our response to Russia so pathetic? Oh because our government has been bought out by them and London is the laundering money capital of the world.
I don't know how this can be defended especially in the face of plummeting living standards.
Lots of the usual bluster from Johnson at PMQs this week, but that chart is a national embarrassment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
You armchair gung-ho boys will hopefully spare the rest of us from any bleating should you suffer painful financial consequences in the months ahead when trying to keep pace with rocketing prices. Take it stoically and with a stiff upper lip because you were cheerleaders.
A sobering read from Zero Hedge today - Russia "Recommends" Fertilizer Makers To Halt All Exports https://www.zerohedge.com/commoditie...lt-all-exports - which highlights the world's dependency on Russia's supply and what may happen to food prices without it.
Agreed. Although judging by the scale of the Russian donations to the Tory party, it's highly likely that's a big factor in there being very little in the way of sanctions from the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
The other factor that makes that graph appear so pathetic is the fact that maybe the UK just not that significant anymore in the grand scheme of things and sanctioning Russia wouldn't really add much value. If we were still part of the EU I imagine the same people would be slapping each other on the back and saying how great it is that we've sanctioned Russia so heavily, despite not knowing the UK's role in ordering them.
Putin’s energy shock is becoming a world food crisis. Brace for rationing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/mark...04-p5a1m8.html
Crikey, that was a depressing read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
'Every society is three meals away from chaos.' — Vladimir Lenin.
Freeze dried grub - mashed potato, porridge, etc - last eons. Tinned food remains edible for a very long time too. Spam is up there with the most disgusting food I've tried as it's loaded with so much salt, but would no doubt taste delicious for anyone who hasn't eaten for a few days.
We can all remember when bog roll mania reached Britain's shores. If people get spooked then supermarket aisles will be filled with those having a tug of war over the last packet, box or tin of whatever they need.
God you talk some nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
Starting point is UK is bad and you work back from that.
Try doing things in reverse. There are numerous sanctions we are tougher on. Energy for example. There are also elements of support we are stronger - for example the military.
There is also the question on what good sanctions do and in terms of oligarchs the fact that Putin has wanted them repatriated for years.
Honestly, I don't get the self loathing that drives some of you. It's out of all proportion. And you never arrive at that position from lookint at evidence - you start there and select evidence to suit it.
It's weird as hell tbh.
We already are suffering consequences, your suppositions about the lack of intelligence of anyone who does not align themselves with the so self satisfied, know everything about everything group on here are deeply insulting. Do you really think that anyone who thinks differently to you believes that life will just carry on as normal if the UK started to take tougher sanctions against Russia and Belarus? As it is, the level of financial support for the Governing party from Russia and their relative lack of support for measures taken by other countries and communities is bound to invite questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
Well when you see plumeeting living standards, child poverty growing at huge rates, electric and gas bills doubling, an older generation seemingly who cares more about woke than climate change, a government mired in corruption and then limited sanctions against Russia it's hard to see how the UK is good in any way.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I've asked you this about 5 times now, tell me one thing that's getting better in the UK, every single time you ignore this question.
Love how you completely ignore the statistics in the article and bring up two points with no evidence whatsoever to say it doesn't matter.
The fact is you completely ignore evidence that doesn't support your tory mates every single time.
And the sad thing is all of this was planned well in advance. However, I don't think many would have heeded any warnings, as they prefer to shoot the messenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
Yes, Bobsy, we are in the beginning throes of an economic Armageddon as you already know from seeing your new energy tariffs and being an avid fan of I and Mr Wales-Bales' profound Great Reset insights.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
You are a lucky fellow to be fearful of taking to your bed when sleepy as your bedroom ceilings should be bowed with the weight of the food and other provisions you have stored in the loft to aid your survival in an imminent Mad Max-like Britain after the currency's purchasing power is hyperinflated to worthlessness and the unprepared go berserk upon realising their entire life savings and monthly income won't be enough to purchase a single onion.
While your neighbours queue at the nearest food bank for their government rations of one ounce of butter, eight cream crackers and a tin of mulligatawny soup per person each week, you will remain at home noshing your way through the contents of your still bulging chest freezer. As they all become emaciated, you will be piling on the pounds from gorging on scampi and plump chicken breasts.
You will need to keep a very low profile for should anyone suspect you're not suffering to the extent they are then they will try to rob you of your goodies faster than an Eritrean stood on the Calais shoreline can embark an English Channel UK Border Force shuttle service vessel to Dover.
Few know precisely what hardships Klaus Schwab and his Young Global Leader Boris Johnson have planned for Britons to endure. We do know though the intent is for citizens here and elsewhere to beg for an easing of their privations. Hold on tight, Bobsy, it's going to be a terrifying ride.
East HamQuote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
Our esteemed Home Secretary was telling all and sundry that their were Home Office staff stationed in Calais as part of the Government’s drive to enable Ukrainian refugees to come here as part of her response to criticism about how little the UK was doing for refugees compared to other countries. Well today, the Government are admitting there’s no Home Office staff in Calais to aid the immigration process so Patel lied. Increasingly, it’s becoming clear that, in true Johnson Government style, we’re talking a good game while doing less than many other countries who are not so keen on blowing their own trumpet.
The situation in Calais is shameful. But is anyone suprised?
This sums up a good deal of the nature of this government. It proclaims so much yet achieves so little. The Emperor has no clothes but unfortunately people only hear the strident false claims of the government propaganda.
It's clearly not on. Are these isolated cases or the general state of affairs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Germany and Netherlands still refusing to cut Russian gas reliance. Which I can understand incidentally.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60656673
The world's committing economic suicide because of Ukraine-Russia.
The consequences will be a horror show for all of us.
I've got family in S.E. Asia living out in the sticks on fertile land. In hindsight, it's looking like the best bit of procreating I ever did. I'm so glad I don't have any kids or grandchildren here, I'd never be able to sleep at night knowing that their futures are about to be tossed away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
Former Ukrainian president praising the UK here:
https://twitter.com/BelfastTory/stat...24138134474753
Zelenskyy praised the UK in parliament yesterday.
Why are people here so keen to run us down?
People are not running 'us' down - they are running the government down. They are rightly doing it because the sanctions package put forward by the UK government was initially pathetic, and is still way less than others, and gives his oligarch backers weeks or months to evade the effects. They are also doing it because the response to the Ukranian refugee crisis is equally pathetic as well as inept. This is all presented with the usual cocktail of lies, bluster and bullshit from Johnson, Patel etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Zelensky is a smart politician. He will say what he thinks is most effective to get the response he wants from his allies in this war. Of course he praised the UK in his address to parliament. It doesn't mean he is impressed by UK sanctions, material support to Ukraine or what passes for 'our' (by which I mean the government) refugee relief effort.
Why are you so keen to give Johnson and his government a free pass in the face of overwhelming evidence of their corruption, lies and ineptitude?
Just an observation. I dont think there is overwhelming evidence of what you cite.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
It's more that I think we are doing alright in sanctions (perhaps slowly on oligarchs, certainly quicker on fuel imports etc), we are doing better than most on military support, better than most from what I have read on humanitarian aid in Ukraine, and clearly need to do better on the process of coming here once you reach Calais etc etc.
I just think it's a mixed bag, but we only hear vitriolic criticism from many on the British left. It's strange, and seems to go against what even those in Ukraine say.
400 million in so far for a single country's contribution that's not bad ?
We are one of the most welcoming and generous countries on earth.
I wouldn't gauge public opinion on narrow political view's .
:hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
They're talking about government actions, not public opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Doing nothing are people blind ?? The UK has frozen over 250bn of russian bank assest EU 34bn .
We also provided defensive weapons well before the EU and still are .
We now supplying the sophisticated Starstreak anti-air missiles to Ukraine to fire at Russian aircraft that will cause chaos to Putin's air force we have already supplied 3,500 NLAW anti-tank missiles that have battered Putins tanks .
Why are folk so anti UK
It's strange, anyone being critical of the UK Government’s, not the UK’s,response to the refugee crisis is seen as being unpatriotic in some quarters, despite me not having seen any criticism (apart from an MP on the Farage wing of the Tory party) saying they are doing too much - it’s always to say they should be doing more.
Here’s an example of the sort of thing which gets me annoyed about this Government. Johnson’s claim in PMQs yesterday that “we’ve done more to resettle vulnerable people in the UK than any other European country since 2015” is not a lie, but it is a very political answer designed to distort the reality about our Government’s true record(look at the numbers of people involved in the two charts in this link).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60679290
Agree. The word "boosterism" seems to be attached to Johnson's government. There is nothing wrong with emphasising the achievements of the country or the government but time and again there is this fast and loose approach with claims that are not supported by fact or official statistics. He has been reprimanded a few times recently by the head of the Office for National Statistics for false or dubious claims. I guess it's an extension of Johnson's character that permeates down.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
In this instance LoM's claims about the UK freezing nearly £260 billion of Russian assets against a paltry amount in the EU came from a Daily Telegraph article that in turn came from a Jacob Rees-Mogg tweet.
Factcheckeres were unable to verify this and the Foreign Office, which was the source were unable or unwilling to provide any clarifying details. It leaves you with the feeling that the search for a headline that shows the UK in its most glittering light is more important than actually delivering a tangible outcome.
https://fullfact.org/economy/russia-...erg-sanctions/
Still good to see that 7 oligarchs including a couple who passed the FA's fit and proper test for football club ownership have finally been sanctioned.
Yes. More disinformation lapped up by those (if we're being kind) with confirmation bias, or (if we are being less kind) who are totally gullible.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
I do accept that in a situation where none of us really know the full facts, there is huge scope for interpreting things in a way which fits our own narrative. Given the 'boosterism' tendency that you have highlighted, it is why people need to engage their own 'reality checks' and stop just parroting claims which appear to support their own views. It makes them look a bit silly.
For me personally, the issue that bugs me is how black and white people are about it. The reality of the situation is that there are numerous ways our country is and should be helping Ukraine;Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Economic sanctions on Russia - Okay by all accounts. Hard to verify and monitor the real world impact. Given the importance of London financially, we could probably do less than others and have a bigger impact. Maybe we are weaker on sanctions on people but stronger on raw material sanctions?
Humanitarian support on the ground - I think we are doing well. And it's something the UK is generally good at and our foriegn aid spending is generally well above other nations (even after proposed future cuts). If our families were in this situation this is also the literal life savers on the ground. We should generally be proud.
Military support - pretty good. Better than most. Hands understandably tied by NATO issues etc, but again, OK.
Refugees - Not as good as it could be. Situation is different as the UK is a long way from Ukraine so understandably numbers would be less. Also the situation in Calais and our inability to deal with that properly - many of whom are NOT legitimate refugees, even if you want to think otherwise. And on Hong Kong, we were WAY ahead of other countries - I just get tired of people not recognising things like that
Political support - pretty good by all accounts. Clearly we have clout on the world stage and are using it. Support is in line with all countries in presenting a unified stance.
So overall, I'd say the UK is doing okay. It's fine to wish we were doing better, but it's the way people talk about us, always the negative, always using somewhat hysterical language and never focuses on the good. It just frustrates me because it is not reflective of reality, it's presenting a distorted vision of the truth.
Ireland is even further away, and if you believe what was stated yesterday at PMQ (again, needs verification) they have taken 3 times as many people from Ukraine as us. Also, UK and HK is a special case surely?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I personally believe that we have less clout on the world stage than we had (certainly amongst our European neighbours), but as a nuclear power it is inevitable that the UK's stance will be listened to.
Apart from that I don't disagree with much of what you say.
Ireland is further away, but just see who ends up taking more refugees ultimately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Peter
Also, of course HK is a different matter, but so is Ukraines relationship with eastern and central Europe. Lviv used to be part of Poland, as did much of Ukraine. Moldova and Ukraine were both in the same state until 1991. But yes, I can recognise that Hong Kong has historic links to the UK without labelling Poland or France as pathetic in response to Hong Kong, so why can't others do the same?
There is a good thread here on some of Britains work in Ukraine
https://twitter.com/thatfoxxybloke/s...28163570667525
I read someone label this kind of thing as 'self loathing liberal brain-rot'. Which I dont agree with, mainly because there is nothing liberal about getting hysterical about Britains response to Ukraine. It is tiresomely predictable though and does require the deliberate closing off of information to come to such a non nuanced view that the UK is somehow uniquely awful, which many do.
The Russia collusion hoax is a very fine example of that, and the majority of the populations in the west all fell for it, so you are quite right in saying people should question everything. Another lazyism is accusing people of being far-left/far-right wing supporters or conspiracy theorists, based purely on media narratives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Peter
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
the media have alot to answer for
The Uk government does deserve recognition much more than some of our European neighbours i.e. Germany
perhaps worth a read
https://researchbriefings.files.parl...35/SN07135.pdf
Defence and security links between Ukraine and NATO members and other Western countries, started soon after Ukraine’s independence in 1991. They intensified further when Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, but primarily took the form of training and the provision of non-lethal military equipment.
Since Russia’s military operations against Ukraine began on 24 February 2022, a large number of NATO members started supplying or approved supplying lethal weapons to Ukraine, including Belgium, Canada, the Czech Republic, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Latvia, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, the United Kingdom and the United States.
For some countries such as Germany this was a significant reversal of their previous defence policies, which had ruled out providing offensive weapons.
The European Union announced it would provide a €450 million lethal arms support package through its European Peace Facility (EPF), the first time the bloc had in its history approved the supply of lethal weapons to a third country.
The US announced an additional $350 million of military assistance to Ukraine once Russian military operations began, taking the total security assistance the US had approved for Ukraine to $1 billion over the past year.
The UK Government has said that there is not, and will not, be any prospect of UK or NATO forces providing active military support in Ukraine itself, and no NATO alliance member has proposed putting troops on the ground. It has not provided precise details of what military equipment it is currently supplying to Ukraine for “operational security reasons”.
The UK has also ruled out creating a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
How much money has Ireland provided in weaponry and training Ukraine armed forces .Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Peter
Its not just about refugees , Ukrainian leaders would prefer they stayed closer to home so they can return to their homeland .
Ukraine wants air support and weaponry as a first option , not visas or oligarch money
If I was UK i'd pile money into Poland to help create safe havens for them rather than expect them to haul woman , children and elderly and unwell on long journeys though many safe European countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I did wonder if that was Douglas Murray, as you've quoted him before. But it comes from the Guido Fawkes website. What a surprise.
Ireland - as the issue at hand was the speed of the initial response, the point stands. I'd certainly hope that you're right and the numbers in the UK will end up being higher. And not just absolute, but pro-rata.
Who is David Foxx? That link, taken at face value, gives some useful references to some real positives. I thought you, as the champion of posting with fair-minded balance might have found something a bit more rounded and nuanced though.
We waffle on about bad UK just to score immigration type political points , whilst Ukraine die in hospitals .
Time NATO stood up and went in the create safe haven for injured and needy .