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Sala inquest concludes
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Horrible. I suppose the only comfort for his family and friends is that he was probably unconscious as it happened.
We know from his phone calls he was scared though. Such a tragedy.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
I hadn’t seen the part where the pilot reported hearing a loud bang on the outbound flight to the operator, previously. I assume this will have a bearing on the court case, also.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
So McKay organised the flight, and he was working for his Son who was representing Nantes - so is this what CCFC want? Does that absolve them of paying the transfer fee as Nantes and their associates have some responsibility?
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Toadstool
So McKay organised the flight, and he was working for his Son who was representing Nantes - so is this what CCFC want? Does that absolve them of paying the transfer fee as Nantes and their associates have some responsibility?
I don't think it has any bearing on the court case really. that is based around had the transfer completed or not
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I don't think it has any bearing on the court case really. that is based around had the transfer completed or not
I can’t see the club winning the case if that’s what the reason for non payment ?
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
I can’t see the club winning the case if that’s what the reason for non payment ?
Hasn't that always been the reason for non-payment?
The CAS hearing (Cardiff appeal against the September 2019 FIFA ruling) has finished - although those who know say the decision may not be announced for months - so the inquest outcome cannot affect it.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Toadstool
So McKay organised the flight, and he was working for his Son who was representing Nantes - so is this what CCFC want? Does that absolve them of paying the transfer fee as Nantes and their associates have some responsibility?
Does not absolve city but a fair conclusion would be a 3 way share of the fee between Nantes, city and the Sala family.
Nantes and McKay are definitely guilty of ratcheting up the final fee so they do not deserve 100%, which I fear is going to happen.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DubaiDai
Does not absolve city but a fair conclusion would be a 3 way share of the fee between Nantes, city and the Sala family.
Nantes and McKay are definitely guilty of ratcheting up the final fee so they do not deserve 100%, which I fear is going to happen.
I don't see how that could be a possible outcome.
we will pay all or nothing
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I don't think it has any bearing on the court case really. that is based around had the transfer completed or not
Hasn't the CAS case been and gone already on 3rd and 4th March ? And wasn't it purely contractual anyway and what happened on the flight and who arranged it not relevant ?
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Enoch Mort
Hasn't the CAS case been and gone already on 3rd and 4th March ? And wasn't it purely contractual anyway and what happened on the flight and who arranged it not relevant ?
Perhaps City/Nantes will go after McKay for the money after this?
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
Perhaps City/Nantes will go after McKay for the money after this?
That’s a good question. I think we have provided for £21m in the accounts which infers £6m of legal costs. Whatever happens at CAS we could go after Nantes in the French Courts if we think that Nantes or those acting for them were negligent in the flight arrangements. No point going after Mackay as he’s an in discharged bankrupt. One thing we know is that Vincent Tan is not afraid of litigation.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
If we end up paying the transfer fee or Nantes lose a player the club should go after the unscrupulous people who were involved in the flight arrangements.
They need to be excluded from football transfers, in any capacity, for life.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Apologies for a rather crude analogy but:
Say you purchased something online from PC world, who in turn used Hermes to deliver it to you. If the parcel never turned up you might need to talk to PC world, you might need to talk to hemes but you certainly wouldn't pay for it yourself. Now this case has proven McKay organised the flights on behalf of Nates because they didn't like the commercial flights Cardiff were offering it presumably should have an impact on who pays the costs.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
I cant help feeling that this may eventually be paid via insurance, now liability has clearly been proven.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ManBearPig
Apologies for a rather crude analogy but:
Say you purchased something online from PC world, who in turn used Hermes to deliver it to you. If the parcel never turned up you might need to talk to PC world, you might need to talk to hemes but you certainly wouldn't pay for it yourself. Now this case has proven McKay organised the flights on behalf of Nates because they didn't like the commercial flights Cardiff were offering it presumably should have an impact on who pays the costs.
Except Sala did “turn up” and may or may not have signed a legitimate contract.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Former Labour leader
I cant help feeling that this may eventually be paid via insurance, now liability has clearly been proven.
The insurance company would have certainly wanted the club to exhaust all avenues before paying up. Whether he was insured who knows, except the club.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
Except Sala did “turn up” and may or may not have signed a legitimate contract.
In which way did he turn up and have signed a legitimate contract?
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ManBearPig
Apologies for a rather crude analogy but:
Say you purchased something online from PC world, who in turn used Hermes to deliver it to you. If the parcel never turned up you might need to talk to PC world, you might need to talk to hemes but you certainly wouldn't pay for it yourself. Now this case has proven McKay organised the flights on behalf of Nates because they didn't like the commercial flights Cardiff were offering it presumably should have an impact on who pays the costs.
Digging deeper into contracts, I can guess that players' contracts are billions of pages long with clauses of about anything, just in case they crop up. If it had been proven that Sala was contractually a City player at the time, and there's nothing in his contract about seeking alternative transport, how can we claim on that?
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
In which way did he turn up and have signed a legitimate contract?
In the way where he was at the CCS and signing contracts before he went back to France. The club even released photos of him at the signing.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
In the way where he was at the CCS and signing contracts before he went back to France. The club even released photos of him at the signing.
I'm guessing by this that you think we should be paying the full transfer fee.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
I'm guessing by this that you think we should be paying the full transfer fee.
Isn't that what CAS is investigating and that this is an appeal as the previous legal case said we were responsible?
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
In the way where he was at the CCS and signing contracts before he went back to France. The club even released photos of him at the signing.
Do you know for certain that Sala was signing his contract in those photos? I'm never convinced that players are in these situations and it's just something staged for publicity, with his actual contract being signed somewhere else at another time.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
"Like phoning a taxi for a friend" - is that how he operates? If you're arranging transport for a £15m player, would you just bung them in an unknown taxi?
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Bloop
Do you know for certain that Sala was signing his contract in those photos? I'm never convinced that players are in these situations and it's just something staged for publicity, with his actual contract being signed somewhere else at another time.
But, if we're talking about legal judgements, any football club which announces the signing of a new player on their website and then bases their defence on trying to claim that he wasn't actually signed at the time are going to have a tough time proving, to the Court's satisfaction, that what they're now saying is true.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
How disgustingly sickly was that read, words like overjoyed, happy to help, my thoughts will always be with him, how I wish I could bring him back........ the man is an utter disgrace. You’d like to think that experienced people who’d have been in charge of the inquest would see right through this piece of shit. What a dreadful, dreadful character.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
But, if we're talking about legal judgements, any football club which announces the signing of a new player on their website and then bases their defence on trying to claim that he wasn't actually signed at the time are going to have a tough time proving, to the Court's satisfaction, that what they're now saying is true.
Does the contract have to be verified by the football authorities though? In this case the Premier League, does it invalidate it if discrepancies are found. I don’t know but there may be a bit more involved for it to be set in stone as opposed to signing a run of the mill contract, even they have a cooling off period. Perhaps the time between the club signing and the Premier League approval is a sort of cooling off period.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Bloop
Do you know for certain that Sala was signing his contract in those photos? I'm never convinced that players are in these situations and it's just something staged for publicity, with his actual contract being signed somewhere else at another time.
The photo's has nothing to do with it, he was announced as a city player and the reason we are in the CAS court is we were found responsible for the fee by the governing body but we are challenging that decision on some technicality.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
I don't think either club has deviated from expected behaviour of a football club/business here. Looks like the McKay family are going to get away with it unfortunately, thankfully Tan is vindictive and this guy has multiple closets of skeletons, bankruptcy might be the least of his worries.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OurManFlint II
The photo's has nothing to do with it, he was announced as a city player and the reason we are in the CAS court is we were found responsible for the fee by the governing body but we are challenging that decision on some technicality.
To do with registration wasn't it? Might be wrong but I am thinking of it like the whole transfer deadline day shenanigans, until 'the paperwork' is through with the league then the player hasn't moved. That might not be the clubs argument but it sounds like it to me. I don't have a scooby about the legal process behind this but many a deal has fallen through on deadline day because the paperwork wasn't in.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OurManFlint II
The photo's has nothing to do with it, he was announced as a city player and the reason we are in the CAS court is we were found responsible for the fee by the governing body but we are challenging that decision on some technicality.
My reference to the photo was in response to Canton Kev, but yes I take your point. I think the technical point is regarding registration post signing as alluded to elsewhere.
Doesn't the CAS case revolve around the first installment though and not the whole fee?
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Willie McKay's attempts to portray himself and his family as the victims in the aftermath of the crash are pathetic. As are his claims that he only arranged the flights for Emiliano Sala out of pure human kindness.
But I do wonder if his interest in staying close to the deal at that stage (and his big agent fee) is some evidence that the contract was not yet tied up, and that further revisions and fresh signatures were expected on Sala's return to Cardiff. I'm not sure if the inquest has established who paid for the flights - except that it was not Cardiff City. The only candidates are McKay himself (via his son Mark) or Nantes FC (surely not Sala's agent)?
McKay acts for self interest - he is not a charity.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Willie McKay's attempts to portray himself and his family as the victims in the aftermath of the crash are pathetic. As are his claims that he only arranged the flights for Emiliano Sala out of pure human kindness.
But I do wonder if his interest in staying close to the deal at that stage (and his big agent fee) is some evidence that the contract was not yet tied up, and that further revisions and fresh signatures were expected on Sala's return to Cardiff. I'm not sure if the inquest has established who paid for the flights - except that it was not Cardiff City. The only candidates are McKay himself (via his son Mark) or Nantes FC (surely not Sala's agent)?
McKay acts for self interest - he is not a charity.
Yes, I’d not thought of thatJon. I’ve always tried to approach the point of that club website piece from the sort of dispassionate viewpoint a court or judge would and that only makes me think that they’d struggle to prove their innocence, but maybe you’re on to something there.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OurManFlint II
The photo's has nothing to do with it, he was announced as a city player and the reason we are in the CAS court is we were found responsible for the fee by the governing body but we are challenging that decision on some technicality.
An announcement is not a legally binding contract though.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
I'm guessing by this that you think we should be paying the full transfer fee.
I honestly don’t know because I don’t know the full details of the court case. My point is this is a very complex case and can’t be simplified by comparing it to having a laptop delivered to your house.
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
An announcement is not a legally binding contract though.
Yeah i know this, but that is not what we are challenging with CAS is it. What we are currently challenging in court, is the governing body over the contract, that said we are responsible. If nothing was signed i could represent the case*!
*i have 100% win rate in representing myself in court
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Re: Sala inquest concludes
As I understand it, fee was agreed (albeit at a highly inflated price), contract signed and relevant paperwork to register Sala with PL was subsequently rejected. Sala died before the paperwork could be amended and returned to PL to complete his registration. City's case is pinned on the fact that he wasn't a registered PL player and therefore the deal wasn't complete so no payment should be made. Its a similar situation to buying a house. Solicitors exchange contracts but until completion you do not legally own the house you are buying.