Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

2022 eh :shrug:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...cd99ffa877c647

2022 eh as the “silent majority” have to live, not the shrill minorities on the left and right who want to fight never ending culture wars.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-living-crisis

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

2022 eh as the “silent majority” have to live, not the shrill minorities on the left and right who want to fight never ending culture wars.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-living-crisis

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It's all they have left. They aren't trusted on any of the big issues so for the next two years we will constantly hear about how the 'woke brigade' are coming to destroy Britain when in reality, there has always been a few people on the extremes shouting others down.

This kind of nonsense is Tory campaigning 101 and circa 30% of the population are unfortunately hook line and sinker.

Interesting stuff, but you've posted stuff not related to the subject.

This was about a totally different issue (trans right, intolerance on campus, political bigotry, free speech etc)

Anything on that?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Interesting stuff, but you've posted stuff not related to the subject.

This was about a totally different issue (trans right, intolerance on campus, political bigotry, free speech etc)

Anything on that?

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No I couldn't care less either way. Are trans issues and 10 person campus protests close to your heart?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

It's all they have left. They aren't trusted on any of the big issues so for the next two years we will constantly hear about how the 'woke brigade' are coming to destroy Britain when in reality, there has always been a few people on the extremes shouting others down.

This kind of nonsense is Tory campaigning 101 and circa 30% of the population are unfortunately hook line and sinker.

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I'm not saying there is a deep rooted smugness in your post, but I love how it's always others who fall for things. Always others who have the wrong beliefs. Always others who are universally unable to read between the lines or incapable of questioning what they read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

No I couldn't care less either way. Are trans issues close to your heart?

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Why post then? Trans rights are important. Political intolerance is a big problem in this country IMO, so yes, that is an important issue I think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Interesting stuff, but you've posted stuff not related to the subject.

This was about a totally different issue (trans right, intolerance on campus, political bigotry, free speech etc)

Anything on that?

---

No, as I said, shrill minorities on either side more interested in fighting culture wars - Johnson and his Government keep telling us to “move on” from Partygate because there’s far more important things going on and then start talking about sending people to Rwanda, poles, perches and furkins and trying to fight the Brexit “war” again!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I'm not saying there is a deep rooted smugness in your post, but I love how it's always others who fall for things. Always others who have the wrong beliefs. Always others who are universally unable to read between the lines or incapable of questioning what they read.

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Ivory tower twat is literally your entire ccmb persona. Example being the windfall tax, you acted like anybody in favour of it just didn't understand the complexity involved.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

No, as I said, shrill minorities on either side more interested in fighting culture wars - Johnson and his Government keep telling us to “move on” from Partygate because there’s far more important things going on and then start talking about sending people to Rwanda, poles, perches and furkins and trying to fight the Brexit “war” again!

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It's not just the government, James himself told everybody on here to move on because there were more important things, presumably this is one of them!?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

No, as I said, shrill minorities on either side more interested in fighting culture wars - Johnson and his Government keep telling us to “move on” from Partygate because there’s far more important things going on and then start talking about sending people to Rwanda, poles, perches and furkins and trying to fight the Brexit “war” again!

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So are you saying all the government can talk about is partygate cos thats what you want to talk about? The things you mention are in response to other issues because there are other issues going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Ivory tower twat is literally your entire ccmb persona. Example being the windfall tax, you acted like anybody in favour of it just didn't understand the complexity involved.

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:hehe:

So no concerns over the event the other day then? The one in question.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

:hehe:

So no concerns over the event the other day then? The one in question.

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I sobbed at the time but I'm over it now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

It's not just the government, James himself told everybody on here to move on because there were more important things, presumably this is one of them!?

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People can talk about what they like Eric. You won't find me demanding people talk about other things.

I may have said that I think things like the cost of living, jobs, unemployment are more important than cakes and covid rule breaches, but I also said the PM should resign. They may be my views, but I would never shut anyone else down.

Which is why stories like this thread concern me - a growing political intolerance not open minded to debate and alternative views. Perhaps you are part of that, i dunno?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I sobbed at the time but I'm over it now.

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Good to know you've moved onto happier pastimes like shouting at me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

People can talk about what they like Eric. You won't find me demanding people talk about other things.

I may have said that I think things like the cost of living, jobs, unemployment are more important than cakes and covid rule breaches, but I also said the PM should resign. They may be my views, but I would never shut anyone else down.

Which is why stories like this thread concern me - a growing political intolerance not open minded to debate and alternative views. Perhaps you are part of that, i dunno?

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Your evidence of it growing? Because you are hearing/reading more about it? (See mine and bobs first posts and read them this time)

As I said, there have always been people with extreme views shouting people down.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Good to know you've moved onto happier pastimes like shouting at me.

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I will stop right now, I don't want to risk triggering your victim complex.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Your evidence of it growing? Because you are hearing/reading more about it? (See mine and bobs first posts and read them this time)

As I said, there have always been people with extreme views shouting people down.

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There's plenty of evidence of growing political intolerance. I fully understand that people with extreme views have always shouted people down, but they were usually condemned properly. Is this happening now? We have people protesting (ironically whilst purporting to object to hatred) 'tory scum' (which Angela Rayner of course was happy to say) to a very rational minded politician stating a perfectly valid biological point, which no doubt some will disagree with, but he should be allowed to be heard.

Here's some evidence (from the US)
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...xtreme-levels/

Admittedly, this doesn't show a change over time, but a third of Labour voters being upset over their child marrying someone who votes differently. I'd say this is a sign of intolerance. And look how intolerant of different opinions some of those 'remainers' are! Surely, we shouldnt normalise this?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyl...cs-childs-spou

And thats without talking about the examples on twitter and other stories from university campuses.

I just don't understand why you tried to change the topic? There's plenty of spaces to talk about other issues. Why not this one?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I will stop right now, I don't want to risk triggering your victim complex.

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You mean you have nothing to say on it, but was angry that someone was talking about a topic you are less comfortable about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

There's plenty of evidence of growing political intolerance. I fully understand that people with extreme views have always shouted people down, but they were usually condemned properly. Is this happening now? We have people protesting (ironically whilst purporting to object to hatred) 'tory scum' (which Angela Rayner of course was happy to say) to a very rational minded politician stating a perfectly valid biological point, which no doubt some will disagree with, but he should be allowed to be heard.

Here's some evidence (from the US)
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...xtreme-levels/

Admittedly, this doesn't show a change over time, but a third of Labour voters being upset over their child marrying someone who votes differently. I'd say this is a sign of intolerance. And look how intolerant of different opinions some of those 'remainers' are! Surely, we shouldnt normalise this?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyl...cs-childs-spou

And thats without talking about the examples on twitter and other stories from university campuses.

I just don't understand why you tried to change the topic? There's plenty of spaces to talk about other issues. Why not this one?

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I don't think it is changing the topic to suggest that you think it's growing because you are hearing about it more (essentially what you have proved with the above failed attempt to quantify your feeling) and then to explore why you might be hearing about it more. It is the same topic, viewed from a different angle.

Just so we are clear though, this thread is only for discussing potential incidents of intolerance displayed by those who identify as the political left? That's the impression I get from your extensive summary of events above.

If you want to talk intolerance then maybe the conversation should include the state-induced intolerance towards asylum seekers. If you want to talk free speech then maybe we should at least touch upon the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act.

But you never do want to talk about these things do you. You want to talk about a millionaire senior government minister getting shouted at by a rabble.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I don't think it is changing the topic to suggest that you think it's growing because you are hearing about it more (essentially what you have proved with the above failed attempt to quantify your feeling) and then to explore why you might be hearing about it more. It is the same topic, viewed from a different angle.

Just so we are clear though, this thread is only for discussing potential incidents of intolerance displayed by those who identify as the political left? That's the impression I get from your extensive summary of events above.

If you want to talk intolerance then maybe the conversation should include the state-induced intolerance towards asylum seekers. If you want to talk free speech then maybe we should at least touch upon the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act.

But you never do want to talk about these things do you. You want to talk about a millionaire senior government minister getting shouted at by a rabble.

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Again, nothing to say about the matter in hand? Instead, ignore it (and gaslight anyone mentioning it), think it's all fine, change the topic onto something else, go for ad hominem attacks and then make a few nudge nudge wink wink comments about millionaire senior government ministers.

There's plenty of topics to talk about all the things you've mentioned. They are routinely discussed. They are different to the topic here, which you seem to think is fine, perhaps because you are intolerant of different opinions yourself? I'm just speculating on that last point of course.

You also went off on one before I said it was a growing problem too btw. I initially highlighted it as a problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

So are you saying all the government can talk about is partygate cos thats what you want to talk about? The things you mention are in response to other issues because there are other issues going on.

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What I want to talk about is immaterial, I’d willingly move on from Partygate if there weren’t so many stories coming out ensuring it stays in the news. My point is that there is an attempt to pass Partygate off as tittle tattle which people aren’t interested in any more, they want to hear about the more important matters that need tackling.

To be fair, the Government finally did something about the cost of living crisis last week, but, even then, it was hard not to be cynical about the motivation behind it and it’s timing given what had happened the day before.

The best way I can explain what I think is that I’m sure Zahawi and his Cabinet colleagues are perfectly happy for incidents like this to occur because it enables them to go off on tangents unrelated to the things like Cost of Living crisis and the Ukraine war. I just tpbelieve the link I posted has an awful lot more to do with the most important thing facing this country today than the one you did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

What I want to talk about is immaterial, I’d willingly move on from Partygate if there weren’t so many stories coming out ensuring it stays in the news. My point is that there is an attempt to pass Partygate off as tittle tattle which people aren’t interested in any more, they want to hear about the more important matters that need tackling.

To be fair, the Government finally did something about the cost of living crisis last week, but, even then, it was hard not to be cynical about the motivation behind it and it’s timing given what had happened the day before.

The best way I can explain what I think is that I’m sure Zahawi and his Cabinet colleagues are perfectly happy for incidents like this to occur because it enables them to go off on tangents unrelated to the things like Cost of Living crisis and the Ukraine war. I just tpbelieve the link I posted has an awful lot more to do with the most important thing facing this country today than the one you did.

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TBF, given an MP was murdered last year I really don't think they are happy with this kind of endless abuse and hounding, especially when it's described as spreading hatred etc. All pretty strong stuff. I do think we need to be aware of the consequences of issues like this. The ability to listen and respectfully engage is absolutely critical. As if the right to protest of course, but the balance needs to be sought.

I do take your wider point, but even at the height of the party gate investigations (and remember, Covid rules, Covid politics, Sue Grays report and the Police investigation are now all in the past) there were still always other issues on and it's legitimate to talk about other issues without the accusation that it's somehow a deviation from talking about something else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Admittedly, this doesn't show a change over time, but a third of Labour voters being upset over their child marrying someone who votes differently. I'd say this is a sign of intolerance.

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A Labour voter being upset over their child marrying a Tory or UKIP or BNP or similar sounds totally rational to me.

Support for a political party - for their policies, values and culture - is very different from supporting a different football club. When you see hatred or harm to others endorsed by someone your child plans to spend their life with, then a bit of upset is justified!

Not intolerance, just concern for your child and your society.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

A Labour voter being upset over their child marrying a Tory or UKIP or BNP or similar sounds totally rational to me.

Support for a political party - for their policies, values and culture - is very different from supporting a different football club. When you see hatred or harm to others endorsed by someone your child plans to spend their life with, then a bit of upset is justified!

Not intolerance, just concern for your child and your society.

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Thank god most people are more open minded than you are.

For reference:

bigot
/ˈbɪɡət/
noun
a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Thank god most people are more open minded than you are.

For reference:

bigot
/ˈbɪɡət/
noun
a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

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Not really the same thing though is it, membership of a group and affinity with a political party. Depending on "how much" of a Tory, Labourite or whatever you are, your belief in what they stand for can be a fundamental part of what kind of person you are

Quote:

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Not really the same thing though is it, membership of a group and affinity with a political party. Depending on "how much" of a Tory, Labourite or whatever you are, your belief in what they stand for can be a fundamental part of what kind of person you are

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Of course. Just like being a protestant in Northern Ireland is an integral part of many peoples beliefs and identity. Fair enough.

However, if you then turn around and say you would be upset or angry if little Billy married Siobhan cos she's a catholic, then that would probably make you a bigot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Of course. Just like being a protestant in Northern Ireland is an integral part of many peoples beliefs and identity. Fair enough.

However, if you then turn around and say you would be upset or angry if little Billy married Siobhan cos she's a catholic, then that would probably make you a bigot.

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I agree. But that is a different thing from support for a political party. I am bemused by people (including many of my family and friends) who have an irrational belief in the supernatural or affiliation to a religious organisation. But I'm not upset or angry. If however someone close to me decided to adopt or accept the core beliefs of a political organisation that I despise - I would be upset.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Again, nothing to say about the matter in hand? Instead, ignore it (and gaslight anyone mentioning it), think it's all fine, change the topic onto something else, go for ad hominem attacks and then make a few nudge nudge wink wink comments about millionaire senior government ministers.

There's plenty of topics to talk about all the things you've mentioned. They are routinely discussed. They are different to the topic here, which you seem to think is fine, perhaps because you are intolerant of different opinions yourself? I'm just speculating on that last point of course.

You also went off on one before I said it was a growing problem too btw. I initially highlighted it as a problem.

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I don't think it is a problem though, it is a symptom of a society that allows people to think and act freely within a set of laws, some views will be different to yours, some will appear extreme. Some will cross a boundary when it comes to the way they present their views because they feel passionately about them.

Fwiw I have absolutely no skin in the game on trans rights, it is completely beyond me to even formulate an opinion so I just try and avoid it and not upset people. Just because I think you are a plum for falling for obvious government dogwhistling about 'wokeness' doesn't actually mean I agree with what these people are saying, I also probably don't disagree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Of course. Just like being a protestant in Northern Ireland is an integral part of many peoples beliefs and identity. Fair enough.

However, if you then turn around and say you would be upset or angry if little Billy married Siobhan cos she's a catholic, then that would probably make you a bigot.

---

Okay, what if a child of yours was getting cozy with a white supremacist. You would be all fine and dandy with that I presume?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I don't think it is a problem though, it is a symptom of a society that allows people to think and act freely within a set of laws, some views will be different to yours, some will appear extreme. Some will cross a boundary when it comes to the way they present their views because they feel passionately about them.

Fwiw I have absolutely no skin in the game on trans rights, it is completely beyond me to even formulate an opinion so I just try and avoid it and not upset people. Just because I think you are a plum for falling for obvious government dogwhistling about 'wokeness' doesn't actually mean I agree with what these people are saying, I also probably don't disagree.

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The first sentence in your second paragraph sets out my feelings exactly on the subject.

The amount of people in the UK who are petrified of 'wokeness' over things like climate change, poverty and increasing inequality is terrifying to me.

I don't understand how so many can't see they're being manipulated into a 'culture war' by the elite so that we look the other way from how much we're being robbed.

Are women born with a penis is all I need to know politicians are struggling to give a straight yes or no ??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Of course. Just like being a protestant in Northern Ireland is an integral part of many peoples beliefs and identity. Fair enough.

However, if you then turn around and say you would be upset or angry if little Billy married Siobhan cos she's a catholic, then that would probably make you a bigot.

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I still think it's different. If Siobhan is quietly practicing her religion then she's not impacting or hurting anybody else, whereas who you vote for can speak to your core values

There is an irony in this thread that certain posters are completely oblivious of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Not really the same thing though is it, membership of a group and affinity with a political party. Depending on "how much" of a Tory, Labourite or whatever you are, your belief in what they stand for can be a fundamental part of what kind of person you are

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Whilst this is true, you really should not foister your own ideas on anyone else - that's fascism in its truest sense. You should encourage your own children to engage in critical thinking, but to be able to express themselves and articulate themselves in their own individual way.

Should a parent dislike their child marrying someone who follows a different political party, then I'd argue that individual isn't fit to be a parent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I agree. But that is a different thing from support for a political party. I am bemused by people (including many of my family and friends) who have an irrational belief in the supernatural or affiliation to a religious organisation. But I'm not upset or angry. If however someone close to me decided to adopt or accept the core beliefs of a political organisation that I despise - I would be upset.

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If I have read this correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong, but if a family member or close friend decided to hold a different viewpoint than your own, you would be upset?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DryCleaning

If I have read this correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong, but if a family member or close friend decided to hold a different viewpoint than your own, you would be upset?

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You are wrong. Different viewpoints are great - about all sorts of things. But - for example - if a close friend or relative started to hang out with the BNP or adopted white supremacist views or put a poster of Jacob Rees-Mogg up in their hallway, I would be upset.

In my opinion it is the people who would not be upset by that who have a problem.

My best mates support different football teams - fine. Family members vote for many different parties - mostly fine. Friends or family who endorse racist or mysoginistic or reactionary policies and ‘values’ - not fine.

I would probably maintain my relationship and argue with them constantly. But for you and others to be offended by someone in that situation being upset (an emotion) is very disturbing. Even more so when you label the rejection of reactionary or oppressive views as fascistic! Don’t you have any boundaries?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

You are wrong. Different viewpoints are great - about all sorts of things. But - for example - if a close friend or relative started to hang out with the BNP or adopted white supremacist views or put a poster of Jacob Rees-Mogg up in their hallway, I would be upset.

In my opinion it is the people who would not be upset by that who have a problem.

My best mates support different football teams - fine. Family members vote for many different parties - mostly fine. Friends or family who endorse racist or mysoginistic or reactionary policies and ‘values’ - not fine.

I would probably maintain my relationship and argue with them constantly. But for you and others to be offended by someone in that situation being upset (an emotion) is very disturbing. Even more so when you label the rejection of reactionary or oppressive views as fascistic! Don’t you have any boundaries?

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This is different from what you said earlier. You said, quite clearly, that if anyone voted Tory or UKIP or BNP you'd be upset. There are a myriad of reasons why people vote for The Tories or UKIP (not the BNP of course), and many of those reasons don't fall into the narrative you have provided above. We can all agree that any form of bigotry is wrong, and that includes prejudging a persons entire character based on a party that they support at an election (unless it is the BNP or Social Workers Party or other equally dangerous fringe lunatics).

You also start a post with "you are wrong". That's rarely the mark of an open and tolerant mind.

Let me put it to you another way, what would it take to convince you that someone who votes Tory (or previously UKIP) isn't a racist?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by delmbox

I still think it's different. If Siobhan is quietly practicing her religion then she's not impacting or hurting anybody else, whereas who you vote for can speak to your core values

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Therein lies the rub. Many people don't practice their religion quietly. A case in point is the nut jobs in the USA rolling back what we consider to be fundamental rights. Who knew the handmaid's tale was an instruction manual?