-
Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Wages Growth vs inflation is obviously key to determining quality of life growth.
EU v UK is interesting in helping to determine, or rule out, what is causing the issues.
None of this is good news, our wage growth is outstripped by inflation, but the EU's is significantly worse. Something is going to have to give here.
UK Wage growth 6.8%
UK inflation 9%
EU wage growth 2.7%
EU annual inflation 8.1%
Euro Area Wage Growth - 2022 Data - 2023 Forecast - https://tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/wage-growth
United Kingdom Average Weekly Earnings Growth - May 2022 Data - 2001-2021 Historical
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/wage-growth
Inflation Rate - Countries - List | Europe
https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
I'm not sure those numbers are directly comparable.
Also if you strip the "bonuses" figure out of the UK wages the increase is a lot lower, and plenty of people don't get any bonus.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
We've in the UK, so we need to look at the UK figures. We are no longer in the EU. This thread is as pointless as two bald men arguing over a comb
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
There are of course some inevitable variables when comparing any two areas. But I follow this stuff and have seen nothing that suggests the UK is doing worse than the EU here.
Inflation is high in both areas; slightly higher in the UK at present, but that changes each month/quarter, but wage growth is consistently higher in the UK.
Just pointing it out.
Main thing is to stress that something has to give on this, because those EU show a near 5.4% real terms cut across the board, so no doubt some countries are probably closer to 10%
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
There are of course some inevitable variables when comparing any two areas. But I follow this stuff and have seen nothing that suggests the UK is doing worse than the EU here.
Inflation is high in both areas; slightly higher in the UK at present, but that changes each month/quarter, but wage growth is consistently higher in the UK.
Just pointing it out.
Main thing is to stress that something has to give on this, because those EU show a near 5.4% real terms cut across the board, so no doubt some countries are probably closer to 10%
I have worked with this stuff too. You have presented a superficial snapshot of data, and seem to be trying to make some point about comparing UK and EU, together with dark warnings about "something having to give". What are you getting at? Come on, James, spit it out.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Completely failed to mention how little wages in the UK have grown compared to Europe since 2010.
Also these inflation figures don't take into account electric and gas, fuel, housing etc. This entire thread is pointless.
I've got some cherries you can pick.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Presumably all this hypothesis translates into the relative strength of currencies as judged by world markets rather than hyperlinks.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
The spending power of people's income and savings will continue to shrink.While they are collecting more than ever before in wages and/or benefits, inflation will ensure they will effectively become poorer, and this contrived demolition into penury has hardly begun.
Cost of living crisis: Britons cannot expect pay rises to keep up with inflation, Treasury warns - https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-l...warns-12636041
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Presumably all this hypothesis translates into the relative strength of currencies as judged by world markets rather than hyperlinks.
You will be aware that the Euro is at 20 year low against the dollar?
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Completely failed to mention how little wages in the UK have grown compared to Europe since 2010.
Also these inflation figures don't take into account electric and gas, fuel, housing etc. This entire thread is pointless.
I've got some cherries you can pick.
Yes, wage growth vs inflation is a completely useless statistic. Okay. Good one.
You are just annoyed that the narrative that the UK is the worst place in Europe is incorrect.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
You will be aware that the Euro is at 20 year low against the dollar?
I'm not really sure how this adds anything to the debate but here we are.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DryCleaning
I'm not really sure how this adds anything to the debate but here we are.
Cyril mentioned currencies..
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Stripping away all the point scoring fundamental questions :
should folk get 11% ??
what happens when inflation falls to 2% do we apply wage cuts ??
can UK afford it ??
should public sector get better rises than private ?
if private sector did get the same as public would business cost rise resulting in redundancies ?
should public sector pensions be eased for the taxpayer to fund wage increases , as this is a benefit the private sector doesn't get and not factored in very often ..
if something like 11% is issued guess costs to consumer go up , business go the wall and services become cut ??
will more jobs go off shore especially those call centres type roles that can be done anywhere .?
will pay rises bring about less full time workers
I'm sure I've got it wrong but it all sniffs of opportunity country is coming out of Covid struggling to recover best to kick it now whilst its down rather than allow any sort of recovery classic union tactics ...
The part I struggle with is kids need to be in school after two years of pain and absence , hospital staff need to get into work on transport to save lives and get the lengthy waiting lists down rather than wait and see folk die ??
We could have a much worse unemployment situation due to Covid thankfully we don't due to the excellent billions of pounds of Furlough / business support measures .
Sadly a lot of folk had to take a 20% cut in wages to survive in work , whilst the public sector had 100% payments and in some case not working , or working in a restricted manner , got a feeling RMT workers maybe have been on full pay ,no mention of that benefit though ??
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Cyril mentioned currencies..
vis a vis the euro and sterling, and not the dollar.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DryCleaning
vis a vis the euro and sterling, and not the dollar.
Remarkably stable in the last 6 years
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?f...o=EUR&view=10Y
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Stripping away all the point scoring fundamental questions :
should folk get 11% ??
I can't think of any reason why they shouldn't ask for it within our economic model.
Quote:
what happens when inflation falls to 2% do we apply wage cuts ??
Why would you cut wages when the value of them is still decreasing?
Quote:
can UK afford it ??
The UK is a capitalist country, this isn't a relevant question unless you are going to apply it to every transaction that takes place.
Quote:
should public sector get better rises than private ?
I don't think so, no. I would be very surprised if that has happened in the recent past, or will in the near future. Should you point score and play public vs private, I don't think so, no.
Quote:
if private sector did get the same as public would business cost rise resulting in redundancies ?
Some might, It sounds like you think wages should be kept artificially low to keep failing businesses afloat?
Quote:
should public sector pensions be eased for the taxpayer to fund wage increases , as this is a benefit the private sector doesn't get and not factored in very often ..
I don't think it is a good idea to ask somebody to pay into something based on a future promise and then renege on it
Quote:
if something like 11% is issued guess costs to consumer go up , business go the wall and services become cut ??
Not too sure what you mean here
Quote:
will more jobs go off shore especially those call centres type roles that can be done anywhere .?
Heaven forbid call centre jobs to go offshore, just imagine if that happened (it has already happened)
Quote:
will pay rises bring about less full time workers
Yeah if I get the mythical 11%, I will probably cut back to 4-5 hours a week, why work?! I will be rolling in it.
Quote:
I'm sure I've got it wrong but it all sniffs of opportunity country is coming out of Covid struggling to recover best to kick it now whilst its down rather than allow any sort of recovery classic union tactics ...
Stop talking the country down, I won't have it.
Quote:
The part I struggle with is kids need to be in school after two years of pain and absence , hospital staff need to get into work on transport to save lives and get the lengthy waiting lists down rather than wait and see folk die ??
If the public transport system has this much influence over peoples lives then perhaps it shouldn't be run by a hundred different companies all primarily concerned by profit margin. Renationalising transport would allow for an integrated system based around what the country needs and a system by which the elected government can be held to account for its failings (i.e. they can't say 'sorry, nothing to do with us', as per this week).
Quote:
We could have a much worse unemployment situation due to Covid thankfully we don't due to the excellent billions of pounds of Furlough / business support measures .
Sadly a lot of folk had to take a 20% cut in wages to survive in work , whilst the public sector had 100% payments and in some case not working , or working in a restricted manner , got a feeling RMT workers maybe have been on full pay ,no mention of that benefit though ??
I am missing the point here. They are considered a vital service so continued working during the pandemic, shouldn't they be praised for this?
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Stripping away all the point scoring fundamental questions :
should folk get 11% ??
I can't think of any reason why they shouldn't ask for it within our economic model.
Quote:
what happens when inflation falls to 2% do we apply wage cuts ??
Why would you cut wages when the value of them is still decreasing?
Quote:
can UK afford it ??
The UK is a capitalist country, this isn't a relevant question unless you are going to apply it to every transaction that takes place.
Quote:
should public sector get better rises than private ?
I don't think so, no. I would be very surprised if that has happened in the recent past, or will in the near future. Should you point score and play public vs private, I don't think so, no.
Quote:
if private sector did get the same as public would business cost rise resulting in redundancies ?
Some might, It sounds like you think wages should be kept artificially low to keep failing businesses afloat?
Quote:
should public sector pensions be eased for the taxpayer to fund wage increases , as this is a benefit the private sector doesn't get and not factored in very often ..
I don't think it is a good idea to ask somebody to pay into something based on a future promise and then renege on it
Quote:
if something like 11% is issued guess costs to consumer go up , business go the wall and services become cut ??
Not too sure what you mean here
Quote:
will more jobs go off shore especially those call centres type roles that can be done anywhere .?
Heaven forbid call centre jobs to go offshore, just imagine if that happened (it has already happened)
Quote:
will pay rises bring about less full time workers
Yeah if I get the mythical 11%, I will probably cut back to 4-5 hours a week, why work?! I will be rolling in it.
Quote:
I'm sure I've got it wrong but it all sniffs of opportunity country is coming out of Covid struggling to recover best to kick it now whilst its down rather than allow any sort of recovery classic union tactics ...
Stop talking the country down, I won't have it.
Quote:
The part I struggle with is kids need to be in school after two years of pain and absence , hospital staff need to get into work on transport to save lives and get the lengthy waiting lists down rather than wait and see folk die ??
If the public transport system has this much influence over peoples lives then perhaps it shouldn't be run by a hundred different companies all primarily concerned by profit margin. Renationalising transport would allow for an integrated system based around what the country needs and a system by which the elected government can be held to account for its failings (i.e. they can't say 'sorry, nothing to do with us', as per this week).
Quote:
We could have a much worse unemployment situation due to Covid thankfully we don't due to the excellent billions of pounds of Furlough / business support measures .
Sadly a lot of folk had to take a 20% cut in wages to survive in work , whilst the public sector had 100% payments and in some case not working , or working in a restricted manner , got a feeling RMT workers maybe have been on full pay ,no mention of that benefit though ??
I am missing the point here. They are considered a vital service so continued working during the pandemic, shouldn't they be praised for this?
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
So good, I posted it twice.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
So good, I posted it twice.
Quite right too. :thumbup:
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Yes, wage growth vs inflation is a completely useless statistic. Okay. Good one.
You are just annoyed that the narrative that the UK is the worst place in Europe is incorrect.
Did you even read what I said?
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Have you ever heard a government minister say landlords should hold rent below inflation? Or told business owners they should hold down prices and take a hit on profits? Because we’re hearing a lot of them demand that of workers today!</p>— Michael Walker (@michaeljswalker) <a href="https://twitter.com/michaeljswalker/status/1538787758780596230?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 20, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
:sherlock:
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Did you even read what I said?
Of course I did. Amongst other things, such as presenting a different topic you said "the entire thread is pointless".
When it is official statistics taken on the comparison between wages and inflation, which is the prime statistic used in the analysis of cost of living.
You are just upset that the same situation (And worse) is occuring outside the UK and therefore your default and sole reasoning (its the Tories fault!) is thus clearly not the answer.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I'm still not sure why you referenced the dollar, which is what I was really asking
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Of course I did. Amongst other things, such as presenting a different topic you said "the entire thread is pointless".
When it is official statistics taken on the comparison between wages and inflation, which is the prime statistic used in the analysis of cost of living.
You are just upset that the same situation (And worse) is occuring outside the UK and therefore your default and sole reasoning (its the Tories fault!) is thus clearly not the answer.
I don't think you've understood what I've said otherwise you wouldn't have said that last paragraph.
The inflation rates you've posted mean nothing as they don't include house prices, rent, electric and gas and fuel. In France for example their bills have increased by what, 4%? Not sure what the average here is but mine have increased by about 50%. But you're here saying our wage to inflation ratio is better, you're lying through your teeth.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
I don't think you've understood what I've said otherwise you wouldn't have said that last paragraph.
The inflation rates you've posted mean nothing as they don't include house prices, rent, electric and gas and fuel. In France for example their bills have increased by what, 4%? Not sure what the average here is but mine have increased by about 50%. But you're here saying our wage to inflation ratio is better, you're lying through your teeth.
Inflation rarely includes house prices, unless I'm mistaken - and I agree, it makes a lot of inflation data less useful as a result.
Eurostat themselves say that energy costs are a key driver of inflation, so they are included and I'll take the EU's statistical bodies word on it over yours.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/economy/eus...in-may/2616081
You just need to accept, this is a continent and world wide issue and thus the solutions lie there too. I'm not asking you to accept more than the truth. It shouldnt be this hard.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
so JamesWales as your the font of knowledge regarding inflation I saw these figures this morning regarding price rises .UK price rises in the past 12 months
▪️Domestic gas 95%
▪️Domestic electricity 54%
▪️Pasta 48%
▪️Fuel 40%
▪️Used cars 30%
▪️Bread 16%
▪️Rice 15%
how come headline inflation is currently 9% ?
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOZZER2
so JamesWales as your the font of knowledge regarding inflation I saw these figures this morning regarding price rises .UK price rises in the past 12 months
▪️Domestic gas 95%
▪️Domestic electricity 54%
▪️Pasta 48%
▪️Fuel 40%
▪️Used cars 30%
▪️Bread 16%
▪️Rice 15%
how come headline inflation is currently 9% ?
I'm not the font of all knowledge, but off the top of my head;
1 - Thats only a small selection of goods
2 - Many of those costs may be what the products cost at source, but won't be passed onto retailers
3 - They may be temporary rises
4 - In some cases they only form a small part of the economy. For example, if I have £200 to spend a week and bread has gone from 65p to 75p that is a significant rise, but has no real impact on general inflation.
I don't work for national statistics though, all I'm saying is that as bad as things are, they are just as bad and in some cases worse elsewhere.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOZZER2
so JamesWales as your the font of knowledge regarding inflation I saw these figures this morning regarding price rises .UK price rises in the past 12 months
▪️Domestic gas 95%
▪️Domestic electricity 54%
▪️Pasta 48%
▪️Fuel 40%
▪️Used cars 30%
▪️Bread 16%
▪️Rice 15%
how come headline inflation is currently 9% ?
Need some clarity :
Will the world be now holding strike ballots , to teach Boris a lesson ??
Is inflation only happening here ??
If flour and jam go up we will not see any cake gate parties
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I'm not the font of all knowledge, but off the top of my head;
1 - Thats only a small selection of goods
2 - Many of those costs may be what the products cost at source, but won't be passed onto retailers
3 - They may be temporary rises
4 - In some cases they only form a small part of the economy. For example, if I have £200 to spend a week and bread has gone from 65p to 75p that is a significant rise, but has no real impact on general inflation.
I don't work for national statistics though, all I'm saying is that as bad as things are, they are just as bad and in some cases worse elsewhere.
'Gas, electricity and fuel only a small selection of goods' :hehe::hehe::hehe:
These are absolute essentials that people have to spend money on. Gas and electric bills are far cheaper in most other countries, why not here?
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
'Gas, electricity and fuel only a small selection of goods' :hehe::hehe::hehe:
These are absolute essentials that people have to spend money on. Gas and electric bills are far cheaper in most other countries, why not here?
Of course they are essential, and that will feed into other costs, but gas going up by X% doesn't mean that everything else will go up by the same X%.
Are you sure bills are far cheaper in most other countries?
We've done this before but I see you keep repeating it.
This data is of course from pre-Ukraine. I think you seem to think that only the UK is impacted by things and that the UK makes uniquely awful decisions. Probably read it on twitter, but it isn't so.
https://www.saveonenergy.com/uk/how-...across-europe/
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
'Gas, electricity and fuel only a small selection of goods' :hehe::hehe::hehe:
These are absolute essentials that people have to spend money on. Gas and electric bills are far cheaper in most other countries, why not here?
It's almost as if fuel poverty doesn't exist
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Klaus and the Davos mob want us plebs off of fossil fuels. That's the long and the short of it.
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Need some clarity :
Will the world be now holding strike ballots , to teach Boris a lesson ??
Is inflation only happening here ??
If flour and jam go up we will not see any cake gate parties
good lord no we are as organ would say part of the reset !
just looking at the German figures today
German producer price inflation surges to 33.6 percent in May, the highest level ever recorded since 1949.
on the same day Germany will restart coal plants and take steps to conserve gas amid concerns about Russian supplies
Russian oil exports to China have increased by 55% over the past year Russia's ruble hits seven-year high against US Dollar !
None of it makes any sense . weren't the sanctions against the ruskies supposed to hurt there economy ?
Loos like Brazil , China and India are filling in the gaps ! can't see inflation coming down any day soon :frown:
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOZZER2
good lord no we are as organ would say part of the reset !
just looking at the German figures today
German producer price inflation surges to 33.6 percent in May, the highest level ever recorded since 1949.
on the same day Germany will restart coal plants and take steps to conserve gas amid concerns about Russian supplies
Russian oil exports to China have increased by 55% over the past year Russia's ruble hits seven-year high against US Dollar !
None of it makes any sense . weren't the sanctions against the ruskies supposed to hurt there economy ?
Loos like Brazil , China and India are filling in the gaps ! can't see inflation coming down any day soon :frown:
This was always the problem. Europe slaps sanctions on Russia, Russia in turn finds other markets for their produce who get it at a better price, and Europe is worse off as a result. But there is no right answer here.
Check out the Ruble. It's absolutely surging.
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?f...o=EUR&view=10Y
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
This was always the problem. Europe slaps sanctions on Russia, Russia in turn finds other markets for their produce who get it at a better price, and Europe is worse off as a result. But there is no right answer here.
Check out the Ruble. It's absolutely surging.
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?f...o=EUR&view=10Y
whilst Germany have started the ball rolling on opening up coal power plants .Italy expected to follow suit
https://mqworld.com/2022/06/20/germa...gest%20economy.
don't think Greta will be too happy !
-
Re: Wages growth vs. Inflation; EU and UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOZZER2
Germany never stopped did they?
Whereas here in the UK, our government are satan for approving a coal plant in cumbria to supply coal for a steel plant which would otherwise import it. Or close.
