Thought they were going to scrape home in the West Country.
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Thought they were going to scrape home in the West Country.
Appreciate it’s a by-election but a 30% swing is big.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Don't understand why it wasn't even bigger defeats, I mean who are still voting tory after everything they've seen or are 30% of the country just permanently deluded no matter what.
The problem is Labour are garbage as well I’d never vote for them under the current leadershipQuote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
True, I certainly won't be voting for them unless they show policies that actually help workers and the vulnerable, so so tired of the status quo.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Even if they show policies that help workers and the vulnerable ( to be fair the minimum wage is a good thing) it doesn’t mean they are going to implement them once elected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
I makes you wonder but it was biggest ever majority to be overturned in a UK by-election.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
It's a good result for Labour because it's on a swing which would see them forming a majority Government at the next general election, but there are definite comparisons to be made between Johnson's junta and the Major Government between 92 and 97, yet it seems to me that Labour doesn't feel like a Government in waiting under Starmer in the way it did under Blair in the nineties. Labour really do need to make it clearer what they stand for under Starmer, they had a good start with a windfall tax that the Tories nicked, but, for me, they're making a big mistake if they're thinking that the seats they need to become either a majority or minority Government are going to just fall into their laps on the back of Conservative unpopularity.
That said, it's a disastrous night for the Tories made worse this morning by the resignation of one of their main culture warriors, Oliver Dowden amid talk of someone having to take responsibility for what's going wrong. Any other Prime Minister would be long gone by now, but this one will have to be forced out and it would appear that his ploy of trying to make out there was some sort of change of Government in 2019 is, thankfully, not working. We've had twelve years of rule by this mob and the overriding feeling I have at this stage is that the UK is going to the dogs under policies which, apart from Brexit under Cameron and May, Johnson would have voted in line with the Government on all of the things that have led to increasing poverty and a lower life expectancy figure.
You say 'it's a good result for Labour' but they performed very poorly in the Honiton and Tiverton by-election
Dropped to third place with a paltry 3.7% of the vote from 19.5% last time out.
I wasn't referring to Honiton and Tiverton because, like the Lib Dems in Wakefield, their candidacy was just a token effort there. I'm hopeful that the voters are ahead of the parties in this as it seems to me that Labour's insistence in fielding a candidate in every GB seat would cost them dear, but perhaps the public are bringing about the sort of Labour/Lib Dem cooperation that I'm fairly sure would beat this Government even if the Labour party in particular are not willing to entertain it on a formal basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
I would have expected more than a 'token effort' in a by-election where Labour had 19.5% of the vote last time out.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Yes, Johnson and Starmer have one thing in common, and it begins with W and ends with F.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Labour came second in 2019 as well, but I think expecting west country voters to switch from Tory to Labour is a bit like asking people in the Rhondda to switch from Labour to Tory, it's a step too far for many, whereas the Lib Dem's success in the south west prior to their coalition with the Conservatives was proof that the switch from Conservative to Lib Dem was one that could be made - realistically, I'd have thought the only places in Devon and Cornwall that Labour could have hopes of winning are the cities like Plymouth and Exeter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
I would be as worried if I was Labour than if I was Tory .
Liberals for decades have done well in By Election as the floating voter lashes out at a Government , and could move back to Tories if Boris went .
The calculation Lib's / Lab will face now is how they will face questions on Europe , nod and wink voting cooperation in some seats , some voters don't like that as your not getting what you vote for ..
Re entering the single market currency , immigration, strikes , cost of living will also be played out to death.... and big tax cuts are on the horizon next year with the strap line " these are affordable due to our prudence ""
Will Sir Kier and Boris be there , there are rumblings of a snap election as Johnston see's a potential leadership challenge next year anyways , we could end up with Angela Rayner v Nadine Dorries , now I'd buy front row tickets for that mud wrestle ??
The Lib Dems hoovered up wholesale what were previously Labour voters too though.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Candidates for all the main political parties are now vetted at central office level, so voting for them is pretty pointless.
Bad night for the Tories, but I don't think they will be tremendously surprised. Wakefield totally expected but the Tiverton loss is worse than expected though and will raise alarm bells in Conservative HQ.. Labour will probably be a little wary too, as their vote collapsed - no doubt they don't mind on this occasion, but a resurgent Lib Dems would pose concerns elsewhere. As with all by-elections mind, it's probably not worth over-analysing it.
It didn't collapse, the voting was coordinated to defeat the Tories.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Yes, but you are missing my point - it went in favour of the Lib Dems (which on this occasion I know Labour are happy with) but it does give wind in their sails, which may not be positive long term for them. The loser here is the Tories, I'm just saying, the best night was had by the Lib Dems overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
There were massive campaigns to vote Labour in Wakefield and Lib Dem in Tiverton. All these results tell us is the people are sick of the Tories.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Dowden's going so quickly and his resignation letter which expresses no loyalty to the PM makes me wonder if he was one of the 148 in in the confidence vote.
The only problem is all the favourites to take over from Boris are clones of Boris, so it would just be more of the same. Ditto if Starmer became PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
Well, I’d say that was because the Lib Dems were the choice of the tactical voters as they were held to be the party more likely to beat the Conservatives. What I would say though is that the Lib Dems were very effective in getting the notion that they were the only alternatives to the Tories out there very quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
I don't think Labour will be overly unhappy at the Tiverton result. They will be cock a hoop that this is another mail in the Tory coffin. We are getting to the point where tactical voting doesn't need to be hugely coordinated for Tory deselection to happen.
I'm sure both Labour and the Lib Dems realise that at the present time tactical voting is the only way to unseat the Tories given the structure of the First Past The Post System. For both parties and the country as a whole to benefit they understand the priority is to remove the Tory government first.
It could be argued that tactical votes should have gone to the opposition party that were second last time out and not to a party that was given little chance of winning the seat a while ago. Yes, it's clearly not 'Labour' country down here but I think the party still suffers from a major malaise away from its core areas of support.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I agree. I am actually surprised that Labour had done so well in the last 2 elections there, as it really isn't known as Labour territory. I do think despite that, and as has been proved, the Lib Dems did have the better chance of winning it, but like you say, it is curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivert..._constituency)
Labour has to strike an awkward balance on a number of issues and somehow shake away from that Metropolitan big inner city look, if they don't more results like like Tiverton and North Shropshire will move to the Liberals ..
Its worth bearing in mind you can get these types of protest votes , what voters do in By Elections , Council , Regionals , Mayor , Brexit elections can be very different in an General Elections , Liberals have been here before ...
I'm sure during the Blair run up Labour were very much far ahead of the Tories around this time of the election cycle ??
What each party lacks is an election campaigner like Johnson , lover or hate him he does have that knack for some reason he appeals and turns head either in anger or support , if he was walking down your high street for some bizarre reason folk would come out point , shout , cheer , have a selfie , can't see many doing that for Ed Davey or Kier ?? ...
Johnson was booed in public a few weeks ago, as he walked in to the Queen's Platinum Jubilee ceremony.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I can't see him getting cheered in the high street at the moment, if he can't even make 10 seconds there.
Think most people in the majority of high streets would tell him he's a fat lying chancing charatan with no morals, shame or scruples tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Exactly, there is some desperate reaching going on in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
maybe labour voters voted tactically here. I know of a few card carrying members who vote LibDem (despite it being against the rules) as its the only way to challenge the Tories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
just bear in mind that the last time the LibDems were king makers, they gave the Tories first crap at forming a government on the premise that the Tories had more seats and votes. For a change of government, Labour may have to have a majorityQuote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
I think the Lib Dems have learned the painful lesson that bed sharing with the Tories does them no good. I can't see them making the same mistake again in a hurry. They would find a centre left Labour party a much more natural fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by DryCleaning
Johnson and his motley crew surfed to Downing St. on the wave of Brexit mania nearly three years ago. That era has passed and seems aeons away now. He and his disciples look adrift in tumultuous seas. He's old hat now and for most people not up to the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Brexit was a con, sooner after it happened he was busy signing over powers to the UN and WHO. All planned no doubt, Boris is a globalist and he doesn't give a sh*t about the UK or the people in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Labour were very much a centre left party in 2010 yet we know how that turned out. Power corrupts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Clegg chose against propping up a tired government that had been in power for more than a decade and chose a Cameron-led party flirting with them on a centre right agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by DryCleaning
The idea that the Lib-Dems would play power brokers in favour of this tired populist government in the event of a hung parliament is laughable. The Tories either get a a majority in the next election, they have enough DUPpers to keep them in power or they are out!
And now Clegg is at Facebook pushing a specific agenda, which tells you everything you need to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
The Tories were the biggest party as well in 2010 - wouldn’t be surprised if the DUP lose seats in the next election.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays