https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ester-61957132
No sense in the decision not to deport all of them.
Human Rights, my a**e, what about the Human Rights of their victims.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ester-61957132
No sense in the decision not to deport all of them.
Human Rights, my a**e, what about the Human Rights of their victims.
It's unbelievable. The lengths some lawyers will go to to keep paedophiles in this country.
they did their crimes here, they should be punished here to the full extent of the law.
They have UK citizenship and no Pakistan citizenship currently - why would Pakistan want a bunch of paedos being sent there, this isn't the 1700 we don't have penal colonies any more
Appalling individuals
But I believe they are British Citizens and have served the sentence administered by the courts
Not saying that's morally correct but this is what it is
They also have Pakistani citizenship, apart from the ring leader who renounced his so he wouldn’t be deported. Bring back Penal colonies for these perverts, they have relinquished their rights to being released into the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
The ring leader is still in prison isn't he ? 19 years he gotQuote:
Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef
Unless the rape of a child , which is what this is , is going to carry a life sentence then these sort of low life's are going to have to be dealt with by the legal system we have
I'm not surprised it doesn't rile you. Still, at least you can start a thread on Boris jogging into a hotel, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
It's completely wrong that we cannot deport people like this, and spend huge sums on supporting them.
There’s a reason crimes like this and rape don’t carry the harshest punishments and that’s because when rape carries the same sentence as murder it leads to more murders because why wouldn’t they silence the witness when the punishment is the same anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Boris jogging to a hotel didn't rile me either, I just thought it made him look ridiculous, which it didQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
"bring back penal colonies"Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef
um I think the other countries might have something to say about that
I thought he was out, I’m probably wrong though.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Or to make sure the law is enforced as it’s written?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I have no sympathy for these scumbags and would have no problem with anything happening to them but it’s mad how much people want the laws to be completely ignored with “certain” criminals.
Always very revealing.
Good try, but it's not revealing at all. They are citizens of another country and if they can be deported, they should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
they are citizens of this country, or they would beQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
That is one of the strengths and core principles of law.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Quick couple of questions for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Where would you deport anyone who, in the eyes of the law, is a UK citizen and has no other nationalities?
What would immigration control of the receiving country say and do if we tried to leave a convicted criminal on their soil?
They are. They've renounced their Pakistani citizenships. We can debate whether that should be allowed in situations like this, but if they are only UK citizens then the answer about deportation is clear cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Is that a straight headline lift from the Express or the Mail?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
'Mr Balance' turns into right-wing red top populist ranter?
I don't think anyone will have the slightest sympathy for these vile scumbags, but it is the job of their lawyers to represent them at the Tribunal and ensure as far as they can though their arguments that the law is properly applied and the final decision is made on the basis of a full understanding of any relevant facts.
That protects the rest of us - not just their clients. I thought you believed in the rule of law - for everyone?
If you don't like the law or its application blame the politicians. They can change that.
But turning on lawyers (I assume here publicly funded and allocated the case) just for doing their job is shit.
Usual suspects turning out.
Some of us will get angry about the head of a paedophile grooming gang receiving hundreds of thousands of taxpayers money to fight deportation on technicalities, having got away with his crimes for years.
You guys can find a tweet somewhere or something.
Deal?
maybe your anger should be directed at the home office for wasting money trying to deport people with British citizenship, who had such an easy way to get out of it, rather than the lawyers who were just doing their job.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
These are awful crimes but so are those involving extreme violence such as armed robbery
But these fellas find God, turn over a new leaf and write a book or teach other prisoners to read etc
And out they come .....oh he's got a good heart , he's loves his mum
Wtf is all that about
The cashier that he held a sawn off to during the Bank job is still under the care of her psychiatrist for trauma !
Some of us understand how the law works and that rare stories like this will be used to try and undermine it by using the rhetoric that gets certain people whipped up into a frenzy.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Tax payers money should be used in cases like this because it should be used in all cases, because more often than not it’s a just use.
Don’t get angry about the odd case like this be proud of the 99% of times when it has value.
You might try and come across as some kind of balanced centrist but as usual with cases like this the mask slips and shows an uneducated xenophobe who gets whipped into a frenzy.
Absolute nonsense - Thats what you guys use when you can't win an argument. Claim xenophobia. This is a guy with dual citizenship and should be deported. If he doesn't want his British citizenship removed, then he shouldn't groom and rape children.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
And yes, I am well aware that the law is being used to keep him here and at what cost that brings, and we are all aware who supports that. The law is complex works in many ways - not all decisions are morally right, or else you would be on the Roe v Wade discussion forum smugly telling everyone "some of us understand how the law works". But you aren't, you are here telling that to people who want someone deported who has caused utter misery and ruined the lives of hundreds of vulnerable girls.
Which bit of British law allows citizenship to be revoked then?Quote:
This is a guy with dual citizenship and should be deported. If he doesn't want his British citizenship removed, then he shouldn't groom and rape children.
I want them punished by the full extent of the law and they are. I’m not defending them I’m defending the law. No one in here is defending peadophiles they are just saying you can’t just revoke the citizenship of someone and just deport them, otherwise why not just deport every criminal?
What the **** has roe vs wade and the American Supreme Court got to do with this? :hehe: what a reach ffs
So does everyone think criminals should always be punished in the country they were born in?
Section 40 of the British Nationality Act 1981.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
I mention Roe v Wade, as an example of how the law is complex but also moral.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
It absolutely is within the law to overturn Roe v Wade but you weren't on that thread telling people upset about it that "you understand the law and they dont" I mention it not to compare the two, but to highlight the inconsistency in your response
And yes, of course, I fully understand that you don't endorse what they did. That goes without saying :thumbup:
I don’t post in every thread I don’t see how that’s relevant at all ffs. I don’t really post in any thread because it’s always so obvious how certain people react.
In a moral world these guys would be locked up forever but there’s a very good reason why that doesn’t happen. We can’t just deport them because we’d like it.
What’s your point? Every crime should be punished with life in prison?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
For the record I would happily deport anyone of dual nationality (or more) who commits crimes such as happened here. I can understand the emotions people feel about this. It also needs to be understood that this is UK law deciding on UK citizens, whether we like it or not. It is not, in any way, siding with the criminals or anything else. It is about UK law only.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
At present the UK government can revoke UK citizenship to anyone seen as a threat to national safety and security, and those who have obtained UK citizenship fraudulently. The UK government has to be satisfied the person concerned will be able to get citizenship elsewhere as, under international law, everyone has the right to a nationality and no-one shall be deprived of his nationality. Nobody should become stateless.
Just looked at the wording of that (again). The Home Sectretary can take away someone's British nationality in certain circumstances, but cannot make them stateless as a result - which was one reason for the furore in the Shamima Begum case.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
In this case my understanding from the Tribunal reports is that it is about alleged inconsistency of treatment and whether the gang members would be able to re-claim Pakistani citizenship or not.
As an aside - the thread title talks about 'a shocking decision'. The Tribunal hasn't made a decision yet has it?
Were they born here? If so, I don't see why they're Pakistan's problemQuote:
Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef
Isnt rehabilitation back into society the purpose of prison ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef
The mark of a civilised society is how it treats its criminals.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
What does it reveal?Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
You'll no doubt be aware that the cornerstone of our legal system is the individual can do whatever they want without consequence, unless there is a law against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Conversely, the government and all of its agencies can only act within the law, and cannot act outside of the powers given to it by law.
If they get off on a technicality, surely it's better to let 10 guilty men go free than punish one innocent man.
Our legal system ain't perfect, but its as good a system an there is.
The mark of a soft centred society is how it treats it’s victims.Quote:
Originally Posted by DryCleaning
You'll no doubt be aware that a state cannot remove citizenship under international law.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Should we just ignore the laws we don't like?
Wasn't that superceded by the 2009 act?Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
We arent discussing the victims. And I agree, the victims should be central to any discussionQuote:
Originally Posted by William Treseder