Welsh Labour vote to increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96

Welsh Labour vote, which will see reforms made to the Senedd.

This includes an increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96 ..

Yey more bureaucracy costs ...

I'd rather have 36 more ambulance crews , probably the overall year on year cost of the extra Senedd members would get us 100 new crews when you factor in their support staff , free transport costs , office space , IT set up , traveling abroad / UK missions to sell the Welsh dream , hospitality, free drinks , food , pensions , etc

Cost of living crisis !!! cost of living crisis !! I hear Welsh Labour Senedd shout ,we cant feel it :wales:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Welsh Labour vote, which will see reforms made to the Senedd.

This includes an increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96 ..

Yey more bureaucracy costs ...

I'd rather have 36 more ambulance crews , probably the overall year on year cost of the extra Senedd members would get us 100 new crews when you factor in their support staff , free transport costs , office space , IT set up , traveling abroad / UK missions to sell the Welsh dream , hospitality, free drinks , food , pensions , etc

Cost of living crisis !!! cost of living crisis !! I hear Welsh Labour Senedd shout ,we cant feel it :wales:

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Animal farm order more pig food for the troughs!!!

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Why is there a plan for 36 more members?

The current total of 60 has been the number since the creation of what was then called the National Assembly for Wales 1999. In those days it had very limited powers and no tax powers.

The Senedd, and the Welsh government, have since acquired direct law-making powers and some tax powers, including over a share of income tax.

It is argued that with all these extra powers more politicians are needed to scrutinise proposed new laws and government ministers' actions, and that there are simply not enough Senedd members to do that job as well as it could be done.

Unlike at Westminster, where there are 650 MPs in the House of Commons, there is also no equivalent of the House of Lords in Wales, which provides a second check on the legal plans of UK ministers.

In essence, it is said Senedd members currently have too high a workload if they do all they are required to do, and ministers plans and actions are not being challenged as much as they could be.

That might mean for example, in extreme cases, that mistakes that would otherwise have been spotted in advance are that much more likely to occur.

This proposal is to move from 60 to 96 members in Cardiff Bay, to cope with the additional work involved in providing greater scrutiny.

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Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61393446

Seems reasonable to me. If you're angry about this wait until you hear about the £1 TRILLION in debt the current UK government have added.

And cost of living crisis, how about the £500 a year per person Brexit is costing? https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bre...ts-2022-06-21/

Or the wage stagnation of the past 40 years? I could go on..

How about they increase numbers by 10% say to then demonstrate the benefit/s? 60% increase off the bat seems crazy, and hugely expensive.

More jobs for the boys.

On the face of it this is classic politicians voting to support themselves stuff.

However, I support it. The senedd has gained considerably more powers in recent years and despite what some say, the UK and senedd has received a raft of powers previously held by Brussels, so the senedd is more powerful and has more work to do. It's also worth noting that the number of Welsh MP's will fall in coming years to align the constituency sizes with the rest of the UK.

Where I think cuts could be made is in councils. It remains preposterous that Wales has 22.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Welsh Labour vote, which will see reforms made to the Senedd.

This includes an increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96 ..

Yey more bureaucracy costs ...

I'd rather have 36 more ambulance crews , probably the overall year on year cost of the extra Senedd members would get us 100 new crews when you factor in their support staff , free transport costs , office space , IT set up , traveling abroad / UK missions to sell the Welsh dream , hospitality, free drinks , food , pensions , etc

Cost of living crisis !!! cost of living crisis !! I hear Welsh Labour Senedd shout ,we cant feel it :wales:

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How much is it costing?

How does that compare with number of MPs in similar sized countries?

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Originally Posted by Tito Fuente

How much is it costing?

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A lot ...


Net expenditure of the Welsh Parliament, Welsh Assembly was at £56.5m in 2018-19.

Approximately 460 people support the 60

What I don't know is what next expenditure means does it include all the add on's i.e. pensions , cars , offices , IT , staff , trips , hospitality , free tea and biscuits ,subsidized food , etc ..

Do you know ??????

https://senedd.wales/commission/work...om-april-2021/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61393446

Seems reasonable to me. If you're angry about this wait until you hear about the £1 TRILLION in debt the current UK government have added.

And cost of living crisis, how about the £500 a year per person Brexit is costing? https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bre...ts-2022-06-21/

Or the wage stagnation of the past 40 years? I could go on..

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https://www.ft.com/content/2c555bc7-...b-c2489e1f8304

As Germany’s biggest union, IG Metall, begins discussions on demands for a wage increase of up to 8.2 per cent for the country’s 85,000 steelworkers in the coming weeks, Birgit Dietze expects reverberations for workers across Europe.


Why is Germany and France and in debt , inflation rising is it Brexit ?????????

Eurozone as a whole has a worse wage lag than UK

Job vacancies in Europe rising

I could go on ..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

A lot ...


Net expenditure of the Welsh Parliament, Welsh Assembly was at £56.5m in 2018-19.

Approximately 460 people support the 60

What I don't know is what next expenditure means does it include all the add on's i.e. pensions , cars , offices , IT , staff , trips , hospitality , free tea and biscuits ,subsidized food , etc ..

Do you know ??????

https://senedd.wales/commission/work...om-april-2021/

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Ok. Got it.

In summary: neither of us know how much it's going to cost.

Please continue with your false moral outrage of this decision based on your political leanings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito Fuente

Ok. Got it.

In summary: neither of us know how much it's going to cost.

Please continue with your false moral outrage of this decision based on your political leanings.

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How is it false this is a fact

Net expenditure of the Welsh Parliament, Welsh Assembly was at £56.5m in 2018-19.

Approximately 460 people support the 60

You've not supplied any data just threw out a line

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

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https://www.ft.com/content/2c555bc7-...b-c2489e1f8304

As Germany’s biggest union, IG Metall, begins discussions on demands for a wage increase of up to 8.2 per cent for the country’s 85,000 steelworkers in the coming weeks, Birgit Dietze expects reverberations for workers across Europe.


Why is Germany and France and in debt , inflation rising is it Brexit ?????????

Eurozone as a whole has a worse wage lag than UK

Job vacancies in Europe rising

I could go on ..

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I must admit, for a group of people who portray themselves as pro-european, there are an awful lot of them who don't actually follow what is happening in continental Europe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

How is it false this is a fact

Net expenditure of the Welsh Parliament, Welsh Assembly was at £56.5m in 2018-19.

Approximately 460 people support the 60

You've not supplied any data just threw out a line

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You misunderstand. It's your moral outrage that is false.

Why would I have supplied data? I just stated that neither of us know how much it's going to cost and I'm not going to pretend that I understand how this will affect the local economy or how the political aspects of it would be good or bad for Wales.

But, please, Tory voter, tell us more about why you think this it's such a bad idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Welsh Labour vote, which will see reforms made to the Senedd.

This includes an increase in Senedd Members from 60 to 96 ..

Yey more bureaucracy costs ...

I'd rather have 36 more ambulance crews , probably the overall year on year cost of the extra Senedd members would get us 100 new crews when you factor in their support staff , free transport costs , office space , IT set up , traveling abroad / UK missions to sell the Welsh dream , hospitality, free drinks , food , pensions , etc

Cost of living crisis !!! cost of living crisis !! I hear Welsh Labour Senedd shout ,we cant feel it :wales:

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I thought Welsh Labour didn’t have an overall majority in the Senedd?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

How does that compare with number of MPs in similar sized countries?

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Thought I'd check myself out of curiosity. With 60 MS' that's 1 for every 54k people, with 96 it's 1 per 33k people.

160 in Ireland = 1 per 31k
129 in Scotland = 1 per 42k
169 in Norway = 1 per 32k
179 in Denmark = 1 per 32k
151 in Croatia = 1 per 27k

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

Thought I'd check myself out of curiosity. With 60 MS' that's 1 for every 54k people, with 96 it's 1 per 33k people.

160 in Ireland = 1 per 31k
129 in Scotland = 1 per 42k
169 in Norway = 1 per 32k
179 in Denmark = 1 per 32k
151 in Croatia = 1 per 27k

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so what's the issue here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I must admit, for a group of people who portray themselves as pro-european, there are an awful lot of them who don't actually follow what is happening in continental Europe.

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I must admit that some one trying to make an anti-European point should be aware that Germany has a debt to GDP ratio that is half that of the UK.

I also admit I found it ironic that this commentator uses record vacancies in the UK to laud the success of the UK economy and record vacancies in Germany as a stick to beat it.

I'm surprised that as an eager follower of continental economics you didn't point that out. Still what do I know?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjk

so what's the issue here?

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That’s my point. We’ve brought ourselves more inline with other, similar countries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

Thought I'd check myself out of curiosity. With 60 MS' that's 1 for every 54k people, with 96 it's 1 per 33k people.

160 in Ireland = 1 per 31k
129 in Scotland = 1 per 42k
169 in Norway = 1 per 32k
179 in Denmark = 1 per 32k
151 in Croatia = 1 per 27k

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How much does each assembly cost ??

And are you measuring full on governments v Devolved Assemblies in those countries ??

Even more fun

Parties will be required to nominate an equal number of men and women and, in a system called 'zipping', the lists must alternate between men and women.

For example, it would mean the Labour list might have a woman at number one, followed by a man, then a woman and so on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Even more fun

Parties will be required to nominate an equal number of men and women and, in a system called 'zipping', the lists must alternate between men and women.

For example, it would mean the Labour list might have a woman at number one, followed by a man, then a woman and so on.

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good

Some more cost data below all a bit vague but to does seem the cost is rising and rising and rising now at 69 million

Then we have the clever vagueness of how much this actually costs

Just think its not a good view to be talking about this with folks struggling

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-...-from-60-to-96

For me it the hidden costs stuff , don't forget this is annual costs ...

If Id written this about stopping Boris enlarging the government and the cost with health struggling we'd see a lot of happy clappy folks , we need to examine our health ,education, crime ,transport performance and provision before this type of shite

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

How much does each assembly cost ??

And are you measuring full on governments v Devolved Assemblies in those countries ??

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Dunno. Can’t say I’m too bothered to look, I was curious is all. I just googled “______ parliament” and took the number of seats from Wiki
each time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Even more fun

Parties will be required to nominate an equal number of men and women and, in a system called 'zipping', the lists must alternate between men and women.

For example, it would mean the Labour list might have a woman at number one, followed by a man, then a woman and so on.

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Shirley they’re not allowed to stipulate “men & women”, Shirley it’s sexist ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

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https://www.ft.com/content/2c555bc7-...b-c2489e1f8304

As Germany’s biggest union, IG Metall, begins discussions on demands for a wage increase of up to 8.2 per cent for the country’s 85,000 steelworkers in the coming weeks, Birgit Dietze expects reverberations for workers across Europe.


Why is Germany and France and in debt , inflation rising is it Brexit ?????????

Eurozone as a whole has a worse wage lag than UK

Job vacancies in Europe rising

I could go on ..

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Let's take a look at wages between 2010 and 2017 https://www.ft.com/content/c4437c9e-...5-50daf11b720d

Our wage growth is only currently better (over what, a one week snippet you've sniped from somewhere) because most EU countries haven't had 12 years of basically no wage growth.

Do you honestly believe the standard of life is better in the UK than say Franch, Netherlands, Germany any of the scandavian countries etc?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I must admit, for a group of people who portray themselves as pro-european, there are an awful lot of them who don't actually follow what is happening in continental Europe.

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reddit.com/r/iamverysmart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjk

so what's the issue here?

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with 650 MPS, the UK has 1MP for every 100,000 people or thereabouts. It really is about economies of scale and its hardly surprising that the larger the population the lower number of MPs per capita that is required.

I wonder what India and Chinas per capita figures are?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61393446

Seems reasonable to me. If you're angry about this wait until you hear about the £1 TRILLION in debt the current UK government have added.

And cost of living crisis, how about the £500 a year per person Brexit is costing? https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bre...ts-2022-06-21/

Or the wage stagnation of the past 40 years? I could go on..

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This is classic whataboutery. Why not respond to the subject matter in hand?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjk

good

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Is it good? Surely the best for the country would have the best people nominated, irrespective of gender. If that means 15 women, 7 men and 3 not quite sures then so be it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DryCleaning

Is it good? Surely the best for the country would have the best people nominated, irrespective of gender. If that means 15 women, 7 men and 3 NOT QUITE SURES then so be it.

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:hehe::hehe::hehe:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61393446

Seems reasonable to me. If you're angry about this wait until you hear about the £1 TRILLION in debt the current UK government have added.

And cost of living crisis, how about the £500 a year per person Brexit is costing? https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bre...ts-2022-06-21/

Or the wage stagnation of the past 40 years? I could go on..

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Please don't ‘go on’. What you say has nothing to do with the thread anyway.

Public debt has gone up because the Government had to pay for the pandemic to keep people like you and me alive and in work. If you want to see a real increase in the countries debt, help elect a new labour government next time around and then you will see what real debt looks like.

The cost of living ‘crisis’ is being felt all over the world, lead by large increases in energy costs due to factors that are nothing to do with Brexit. Also in the last 15 years we have enjoyed record low interest rates and low inflation and everyone has benefitted from this, including the people who are moaning the loudest now that inflation has increased.

Wages increases have been lower but as I said so has inflation. Wages certainly haven't ‘stagnated’ as you make out. If someone is prepared to work hard and put in the hours there are still rewards to be had and opportunities to better oneself. Some people seem to think that people should get a pay rise no matter how little effort (if any) they put in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Let's take a look at wages between 2010 and 2017 https://www.ft.com/content/c4437c9e-...5-50daf11b720d

Our wage growth is only currently better (over what, a one week snippet you've sniped from somewhere) because most EU countries haven't had 12 years of basically no wage growth.

Do you honestly believe the standard of life is better in the UK than say Franch, Netherlands, Germany any of the scandavian countries etc?

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What I do know that wages are lagging behind in very country in the world this is not difficult just google wage lagging and almost every country pop up , and the Eurozone in the last decade has underperformed compared to the UK , hence the Eastern Europeans coming to the UK to work or did they come take a wage cut ????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

What I do know that wages are lagging behind in very country in the world this is not difficult just google wage lagging and almost every country pop up , and the Eurozone in the last decade has underperformed compared to the UK , hence the Eastern Europeans coming to the UK to work or did they come take a wage cut ????

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I thought most of the Eastern Europeans coming here in the years before Brexit were Poles and Romanians

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Please don't ‘go on’. What you say has nothing to do with the thread anyway.

Public debt has gone up because the Government had to pay for the pandemic to keep people like you and me alive and in work. If you want to see a real increase in the countries debt, help elect a new labour government next time around and then you will see what real debt looks like.

The cost of living ‘crisis’ is being felt all over the world, lead by large increases in energy costs due to factors that are nothing to do with Brexit. Also in the last 15 years we have enjoyed record low interest rates and low inflation and everyone has benefitted from this, including the people who are moaning the loudest now that inflation has increased.

Wages increases have been lower but as I said so has inflation. Wages certainly haven't ‘stagnated’ as you make out. If someone is prepared to work hard and put in the hours there are still rewards to be had and opportunities to better oneself. Some people seem to think that people should get a pay rise no matter how little effort (if any) they put in.

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The world is in the same dilemma have to move beyond the hatred of Brexit and Boris desperate times ..

Big economises are stuttering as are the job markets , wages , inflation and they include Germany .Japan , North America , I d just suggest you perhaps examine the plights of these countries in more depth ..

As stated to Dorcus , why were folk coming to the UK ?? Why not stay in wealthy Germany / France if they are that better or go to a Nordic country .


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https://www.ft.com/content/6f325773-...1-6bc986ee90fa

Trade balance of the overall eurozone, which had a trade deficit in goods of €32.4bn in April, a reversal from a surplus of €14.9bn a year earlier. Eurozone trade figures for May are due to be released on July 15.


Germany records first monthly trade deficit since 1991 as import costs soar
Lower demand for exports also contributes to €1bn negative trading balance for May

Eurozone’s long-stagnating wages start to rise as cost of living soars
After a decade of little to no pay growth, workers are finally starting to see higher settlements

All of the above from the FT who are no friend of the Tories or Brexit

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

I thought most of the Eastern Europeans coming here in the years before Brexit were Poles and Romanians

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Not really adding anything to the thread but Poland is central Europe :biggrin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Some more cost data below all a bit vague but to does seem the cost is rising and rising and rising now at 69 million

Then we have the clever vagueness of how much this actually costs

Just think its not a good view to be talking about this with folks struggling

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-...-from-60-to-96

For me it the hidden costs stuff , don't forget this is annual costs ...

If Id written this about stopping Boris enlarging the government and the cost with health struggling we'd see a lot of happy clappy folks , we need to examine our health ,education, crime ,transport performance and provision before this type of shite

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Good point.

Boris Johnson isn't expanding the Senedd so he can concentrate on the concerns that you listed there.

How's Boris Johnson doing with health, crime and education?

Health:

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-joh...chdog-12644840

Crime:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60250678.amp

Education:

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/member.php?21223-life-on-mars

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DryCleaning

Not really adding anything to the thread but Poland is central Europe :biggrin:

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Me adding even less! :hehe:

Eastern Europe is, as the name says, the eastern part of Europe. According to the United Nations definition, countries within Eastern Europe are Belarus, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Ukraine and the western part of the Russian Federation (see: European Russia map).

All these countries are using Eastern European Time (EET = UTC +2 hours) except Belarus (Minsk Time, UTC+3 hours), the Kaliningrad Oblast (UTC+3 hours) and the Russian Federation (Moscow Time UTC+4 h).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Me adding even less! :hehe:

Eastern Europe is, as the name says, the eastern part of Europe. According to the United Nations definition, countries within Eastern Europe are Belarus, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Ukraine and the western part of the Russian Federation (see: European Russia map).

All these countries are using Eastern European Time (EET = UTC +2 hours) except Belarus (Minsk Time, UTC+3 hours), the Kaliningrad Oblast (UTC+3 hours) and the Russian Federation (Moscow Time UTC+4 h).

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Poland

:popcorn:

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Originally Posted by DryCleaning

Poland

:popcorn:

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Jeez, all I wanted to do was ridicule LoMs assertion that Eastern Europeans were fleeing the Eurozone to the UK by highlighting the lands of the zloty and the leu and the next thing I know I'm debating the geographical provenance of the land to the east of the Oder! :hehe: