Our Midfield

Watters has got a lot of shit recently and, to be fair, I've been one of his biggest critics.

But the more I watch us, the more it becomes obvious that our midfield is just as big a part of the goalscoring problem.

Nobody is breaking beyond. Nobody is capitalising on the space that Watters or the wide men create. The amount of crosses in the last 5 games that have been put on a plate 12 yards out from goal - with nobody on the end of them - is staggering.

And I'm not sure why this is, especially with the insurance of Wintle sitting deep. Rinomhota describes himself as an energetic "box to box player", but I don't think he's actually set foot in the opposition penalty area yet. Running beyond the player in possession used to be Ralls' bread and butter, but he doesn't seem to have the legs for it anymore. And Sawyers obviously sees himself as a deep lying playmaker who is happy to provide the short option rather than break into the box.

Don't get me wrong, our final ball isn't always perfect. But there are 2 or 3 occasions in every game where the wide man is putting balls in good areas and nobody's attacking the space. If the centre forward is going near post and taking the defender with him, any player who is willing to take that gamble has got a tap in half the time. But nobody seems interested. I don't know if that's because of Morison's instruction, because they don't have the intelligence or experience to make those runs, or if they simply can't be bothered. But if he insists on playing with wide men, then the same thing is going to keep happening week after week with the same end result.

And as if to illustrate the point, look at Luton's first goal tonight. A midfielder running into the box and getting on the end of a cross.

There's a lot to like this season. I enjoy the way we play out from the back and work the ball up the pitch. But Morison needs to swallow his pride and look at a different approach in the final third, because the current one is not working at all.

And it's not because of Max Watters.

Agree

Our build up play was so predictable

Our midfielder is not perfect this season but it's far far better than it's been for several seasons now, with last season possibly being the worst.

For a start Talks should not be playing. We were at home tonight needing to take the game forwArd and win it. We leave out best attacking midfield player on the bench (Colwill) and continue to pick Ralls who has to be dubbed as he just wants to sit deep.
I would tend to agree with your post as my thinking is now turning to "what is Morison coaching" .
Our back four look solid (although we must learn how to defend free kicks outside our area).
Our midfield looks neat but are mostly playing square or backwards.
Simply finding a better striker than Watters is not the answer

2 strikers does not work for us

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead

Watters has got a lot of shit recently and, to be fair, I've been one of his biggest critics.

But the more I watch us, the more it becomes obvious that our midfield is just as big a part of the goalscoring problem.

Nobody is breaking beyond. Nobody is capitalising on the space that Watters or the wide men create. The amount of crosses in the last 5 games that have been put on a plate 12 yards out from goal - with nobody on the end of them - is staggering.

And I'm not sure why this is, especially with the insurance of Wintle sitting deep. Rinomhota describes himself as an energetic "box to box player", but I don't think he's actually set foot in the opposition penalty area yet. Running beyond the player in possession used to be Ralls' bread and butter, but he doesn't seem to have the legs for it anymore. And Sawyers obviously sees himself as a deep lying playmaker who is happy to provide the short option rather than break into the box.

Don't get me wrong, our final ball isn't always perfect. But there are 2 or 3 occasions in every game where the wide man is putting balls in good areas and nobody's attacking the space. If the centre forward is going near post and taking the defender with him, any player who is willing to take that gamble has got a tap in half the time. But nobody seems interested. I don't know if that's because of Morison's instruction, because they don't have the intelligence or experience to make those runs, or if they simply can't be bothered. But if he insists on playing with wide men, then the same thing is going to keep happening week after week with the same end result.

And as if to illustrate the point, look at Luton's first goal tonight. A midfielder running into the box and getting on the end of a cross.

There's a lot to like this season. I enjoy the way we play out from the back and work the ball up the pitch. But Morison needs to swallow his pride and look at a different approach in the final third, because the current one is not working at all.

And it's not because of Max Watters.

---

Against Preston Watters made 5 diagonal runs behind their defenders and no midfielder even saw the runs let alone passed to him.

StT.
<><

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead

Watters has got a lot of shit recently and, to be fair, I've been one of his biggest critics.

But the more I watch us, the more it becomes obvious that our midfield is just as big a part of the goalscoring problem.

Nobody is breaking beyond. Nobody is capitalising on the space that Watters or the wide men create. The amount of crosses in the last 5 games that have been put on a plate 12 yards out from goal - with nobody on the end of them - is staggering.

And I'm not sure why this is, especially with the insurance of Wintle sitting deep. Rinomhota describes himself as an energetic "box to box player", but I don't think he's actually set foot in the opposition penalty area yet. Running beyond the player in possession used to be Ralls' bread and butter, but he doesn't seem to have the legs for it anymore. And Sawyers obviously sees himself as a deep lying playmaker who is happy to provide the short option rather than break into the box.

Don't get me wrong, our final ball isn't always perfect. But there are 2 or 3 occasions in every game where the wide man is putting balls in good areas and nobody's attacking the space. If the centre forward is going near post and taking the defender with him, any player who is willing to take that gamble has got a tap in half the time. But nobody seems interested. I don't know if that's because of Morison's instruction, because they don't have the intelligence or experience to make those runs, or if they simply can't be bothered. But if he insists on playing with wide men, then the same thing is going to keep happening week after week with the same end result.

And as if to illustrate the point, look at Luton's first goal tonight. A midfielder running into the box and getting on the end of a cross.

There's a lot to like this season. I enjoy the way we play out from the back and work the ball up the pitch. But Morison needs to swallow his pride and look at a different approach in the final third, because the current one is not working at all.

And it's not because of Max Watters.

---

Nah. A huge part of the problem is Max Watters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hilts

Nah. A huge part of the problem is Max Watters.

---

Watters is an issue. The midfield is a bigger concern. We can replace Watters, we cannot easily address the lack of runners in midfield

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Watters is an issue. The midfield is a bigger concern. We can replace Watters, we cannot easily address the lack of runners in midfield

---

Not sure how the midfield is more of a concern when we have a striker/strikers who don't score.

How many one on one chances do our strikers need before actually putting one away?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Watters is an issue. The midfield is a bigger concern. We can replace Watters, we cannot easily address the lack of runners in midfield

---

The midfield is more than good enough to be comfortable mid table.

The striking options are the sort that gets you relegated.

Both are an issue for me.

Watters (maybe out of frustration) was on the touchline stood there at one point tonight whilst Ojo was five yards from him trying to beat the full back. Just not what you need from a striker.

The final third is just static all round though. It’s quite neat and intricate in midfield but as soon we get to the final third there is nothing fluid between the front 3, or anyone from midfield. I think Colwill can play top of a midfield 3 but he needs to be calmer. Trying too hard tonight (least of our problems I know). For me, Colwill must start every game now. He’s the only one we have with a bit of composure in the final third.

If it’s not a defence splitting through pass from wintle to give o dowda a chance to cut it across we’re restricted to long range strikes, all so predictable and we need a creative midfielder nearly as much as a striker imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hilts

Nah. A huge part of the problem is Max Watters.

---

Honest question. What would you ask Watters to do differently at the moment? Or, more to the point, what would you expect another striker to come in and do differently?

And I'm saying this as someone that doesn't particularly rate Watters.

People seem to think that if we get another striker in before the deadline all our attacking problems will magically disappear.

But the same problems will still be there. When this magic striker holds the ball up, he'll still be laying off a backwards pass, because all our midfielders are sat deep and unwilling to go in behind. There'll still be 3 players marking him because there's nobody else for the opposition to worry about.

To me the shape is the issue. I'd play with 2 strikers up top to at least give their centre backs something to think about, and a 10 - Colwill or Ojo - in behind to exploit the space. The full backs are so far up the pitch that they provide natural width.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

2 strikers does not work for us

---

One striker doesn’t work either! (If it is Watters or Harris anyway)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hilts

The midfield is more than good enough to be comfortable mid table.

The striking options are the sort that gets you relegated.

---

Our midfield doesn’t get in the opposition box at all. If the midfield are good enough, why aren’t they doing it, or is the manager not good enough?

It's painful seeing two in the box at 2 nil down.

The ball in has to be almost perfect.

Luton put a decent ball in for the first into a good area where there are 4 or 5 looking to attack it.

We are pretty and neat between the boxes but painfully slow and toothless when we get to the penalty area.

I don't understand why it hasn't been addressed. The lack of bravery from the midfielders to break beyond has been clear in most matches so far. It means Watters, who has been off the pace and is an issue is easily marked by a number of defenders for every cutback or cross.

Don’t think Ralls, Rinahmota, Sawyers, Colwill got into the box once tonight and they’re the 2 further forward midfielders.

That’s the issue in a nutshell for me. Makes it all too easy to defend against.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead

Honest question. What would you ask Watters to do differently at the moment? Or, more to the point, what would you expect another striker to come in and do differently?

And I'm saying this as someone that doesn't particularly rate Watters.

People seem to think that if we get another striker in before the deadline all our attacking problems will magically disappear.

But the same problems will still be there. When this magic striker holds the ball up, he'll still be laying off a backwards pass, because all our midfielders are sat deep and unwilling to go in behind. There'll still be 3 players marking him because there's nobody else for the opposition to worry about.

To me the shape is the issue. I'd play with 2 strikers up top to at least give their centre backs something to think about, and a 10 - Colwill or Ojo - in behind to exploit the space. The full backs are so far up the pitch that they provide natural width.

---

I dont expect Watters to do much differently. Hes just way below Championship standard.

Hes easily bullied by the opposition as well.

Id say any decent Championship striker with a bit of strenghth will be a vast improvement. If they can stick sitters in the back of the net all the better.

We are far from perfect in all areas. But the area where we are really poor is up front. Its a relegation strike force.

The ball came into the box from the right in the second half. There wasn't a City player to be seen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dandywarhol

The ball came into the box from the right in the second half. There wasn't a City player to be seen.

---

If its the one im thinking of theyd all advanced too far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hilts

If its the one im thinking of theyd all advanced too far.

---

It was the one where all our midfield was stood motionless outside the box, as the ball rolled across goal. It was begging to be put home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

2 strikers does not work for us

---

Neither does one.

Maybe three is the way to go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Neither does one.

Maybe three is the way to go.

---

Maybe we’ve invented a new “false 10” because that what it felt like last night.

I do get the midfield point though, Ojo out across a peach of a ball in the second half, about five Luton defenders in the box, Watters was almost on the goal line and no midfielder gambled to get on the end of it. I think Ojo has been great this season, the only player that looks capable of taking a man on.

The midfield didn't gel last night, and in some instances it looked like they would rather take any option than pass to Watters?
Maybe they realised it would just be a wasted pass?

The players are obviously playing to instruction and the manager has set them up to play in a style that he believes will win the game

The starting line up had most of us scratching our head in the pub beforehand, but he's the manager and that's who were going with.

It was crystal clear after the first 15 minutes that this wasn't going to work with the way were set up, neither Watters or Harris will ever be Championship players, they simply aren't good enough.

The midfield three lacked any real drive to get into the box and support, maybe because they felt it would be a pointless exercise running in to support knowing that neither of the two front players could hold the ball up and bring them into play, who knows?
I don't believe Morison has deliberately changed the starting line up to make it easier for Luton, but it definitely did
We were ponderous and lacked any creative spark in midfield and after going on at 1 0 down the one real creative player bought on looks like he was trying to hard to change things around (although no doubt it will be his fault or Issak Davies fault, or Nathan Jones fault for celebrating his win)

On the way out, someone commented that our Poundland Pep may not be the genius footballing coach he thinks he is

Looking at the two managers on the side and the way one of them mentally kicked every ball, made every tackle and drove his team on with a passion as opposed to the one who just waved his arms in the air when Harris lost yet another opportunity to do something with the ball, it's easy to see which one will be in demand and which one will be looking for the coaching role for the U21s at Gillingham

'ponderous' was a word used on a few occasions after the game quite a few times.

I am not sure what Morison was thinking starting with the midfield three he did.

You saw when Sawyers came on he was pulling the strings and making things happen but we were down by then.

Why wouldn't you start with a more ambitious midfield at home against a decent, but hardly brilliant, Luton side?

With either Harris and Watters up front we don't have the physicality to compete with wily and tough defenders.

Ojo is ponderous sometimes but when he was getting the ball in the box - no one was there - or perhaps Watters against 4 or 5 defenders.

We do need an experienced striker, like Hugill, who can be in the right place, hold the ball up, win free kicks and as importantly start screaming and demanding more from the midfield to push and up support him - some leadership is needed.

We are soft touch at the moment. But as noted, we are on the right track.

The 3 yesterday are just to similar, they offer little going forward and are not creative. Surely one of Colwill or Sawyer starts. Then on top you need 2 wingers not Harris.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo

The 3 yesterday are just to similar, they offer little going forward and are not creative. Surely one of Colwill or Sawyer starts. Then on top you need 2 wingers not Harris.

---

I agree. I thought the 3 individually played ok though Rino after a bright start faded badly. We should have started with an attack minded midfielder in there Colwill/Sawyers.

Harris should have been CF and Philagene wide.

Harris spent most of his time coming inside to be some sort of physical presence as Watters was just being completely bullied and unable to compete.

I'm not convinced were on the right track
Football is a results game, based on our last 6 results, weve won 1, drawn 2, lost 3
5 points out of 18 and scored 3 goals has relegation struggle written all over it, at this rate Morison won't see October 1st as manager

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead

Watters has got a lot of shit recently and, to be fair, I've been one of his biggest critics.

But the more I watch us, the more it becomes obvious that our midfield is just as big a part of the goalscoring problem.

Nobody is breaking beyond. Nobody is capitalising on the space that Watters or the wide men create. The amount of crosses in the last 5 games that have been put on a plate 12 yards out from goal - with nobody on the end of them - is staggering.

And I'm not sure why this is, especially with the insurance of Wintle sitting deep. Rinomhota describes himself as an energetic "box to box player", but I don't think he's actually set foot in the opposition penalty area yet. Running beyond the player in possession used to be Ralls' bread and butter, but he doesn't seem to have the legs for it anymore. And Sawyers obviously sees himself as a deep lying playmaker who is happy to provide the short option rather than break into the box.

Don't get me wrong, our final ball isn't always perfect. But there are 2 or 3 occasions in every game where the wide man is putting balls in good areas and nobody's attacking the space. If the centre forward is going near post and taking the defender with him, any player who is willing to take that gamble has got a tap in half the time. But nobody seems interested. I don't know if that's because of Morison's instruction, because they don't have the intelligence or experience to make those runs, or if they simply can't be bothered. But if he insists on playing with wide men, then the same thing is going to keep happening week after week with the same end result.

And as if to illustrate the point, look at Luton's first goal tonight. A midfielder running into the box and getting on the end of a cross.

There's a lot to like this season. I enjoy the way we play out from the back and work the ball up the pitch. But Morison needs to swallow his pride and look at a different approach in the final third, because the current one is not working at all.

And it's not because of Max Watters.

---

Agree a good team chips in with goals from all over the pitch, we obviously need a striker but aso the rest of the team need to step up!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunderlandBluebird

Don’t think Ralls, Rinahmota, Sawyers, Colwill got into the box once tonight and they’re the 2 further forward midfielders.

That’s the issue in a nutshell for me. Makes it all too easy to defend against.

---

Agreed O'Dowda is the best option we have, both with delivery and possibly getting on the end of a cross from the other side.