Suppose it is Warnock - hypothetical scenario that needs an answer

Suppose Warnock returns. Suppose we stay up. There's an important question - what happens then? Staying up is important but there has to be a longer term view beyond that.

I think we can say with some surety that Tan isn't going to be spending much, so the likelihood is that we're stuck with most of this season's squad for next season.

Does he get another contract?

Does he leave at the end of the season, when we'd be looking for yet another manager to get something out of the same group of players?

What is the plan? There has to be one. Looking at it solely from the point of view that the plan is to stay up and nothing else matters is simply short sighted.

We should have got rid of him when he got us promoted. If he comes, he's here for one reason only. If he gets it done, thank you very much and goodbye.

Yes, this is exactly my issue also. Staying up is obviously the priority, but another short term hire doesn't solve any of the issues around the club. Especially given we can't pay a fee for anybody for the next few windows. We will just be in a worse situation next season again. Maybe Warnock can come back and save us for a third time, wonder how much it will cost to have him on a retainer.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

We should have got rid of him when he got us promoted. If he comes, he's here for one reason only. If he gets it done, thank you very much and goodbye.

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Totally agree with this.

If he can come and save us from the drop, brilliant, it gives the club time to plan another appointment and a manager a proper transfer window and a pre-season to mould a team (not that I have much faith in them doing it).

But the priority has to be staying up, us going down would be a disaster and the club need to do anything to give us the best chance of staying up.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

We should have got rid of him when he got us promoted. If he comes, he's here for one reason only. If he gets it done, thank you very much and goodbye.

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I can see him getting more than a few months.
Not much point in him coming for that long.

From what Warnock himself has said lately in the press, he doesn't want to be doing years at this stage.

I reckon he'd be happy to do 18 months though.

The problem with that is the fact that it doesn't really suit us. He'd be coming for the money, would undoubtedly neglect the youth system in place, and would cost us a pretty packet.

I suspect we'd be putting him up in a hotel as he's not going to want to be house hunting etc.

I agree that the rest of the season would be it for me at best, but he may well hold out for 18 months, otherwise it all seems a bit pointless him relocating etc at this point. We'd be talking now until May, it's a lot of hassle for such a short appointment.

If he comes then it must be a water tight contract until May

His job to keep us in the championship

If he does that he gets a bonus

Then we look for a long term appointment

It's no more complicated than that

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

If he comes then it must be a water tight contract until May

His job to keep us in the championship

If he does that he gets a bonus

Then we look for a long term appointment

It's no more complicated than that

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I agree completely.
I just can't see him coming here for what, 4-5 months?
I reckon he'd want another year and therein lies the problem.
If he wants to come here til the end of the season with an incentive based contract then f*ck it, do it.
I just reckon he's got 18 months in his head judging by some of what he's said recently.

He's made it clear he doesn't want "years", but I reckon he'll want more than 4-5 months.

He probably wants one more go at the purse strings in June/July.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

We should have got rid of him when he got us promoted. If he comes, he's here for one reason only. If he gets it done, thank you very much and goodbye.

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Possibly but we’d have had to spend an awful lot of money for another manager to have a chance. We were really, really close to doing it but in hindsight he should have gone when we went down. I don’t want to be that guy but if Sala had landed, I think we’d have stayed up and Warnock would have rode off into the sunset a hero

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Originally Posted by Ninja

I agree completely.
I just can't see him coming here for what, 4-5 months?
I reckon he'd want another year and therein lies the problem.
If he wants to come here til the end of the season with an incentive based contract then f*ck it, do it.
I just reckon he's got 18 months in his head judging by some of what he's said recently.

He's made it clear he doesn't want "years", but I reckon he'll want more than 4-5 months.

He probably wants one more go at the purse strings in June/July.

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Neil Warnock loves money. Tan will pay him a lot of it to keep us up. It’s that simple

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Neil Warnock loves money. Tan will pay him a lot of it to keep us up. It’s that simple

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Would you be happy then, to pay him a shit-load of cash for 18 months and sanction his wheeling and dealing in the summer?

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Originally Posted by Ninja

Would you be happy then, to pay him a shit-load of cash for 18 months and sanction his wheeling and dealing in the summer?

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I’m just answering your quesition. Warnock would take the job because he loves money. I bet Tan pays him, “Blackie” and “Jeppo” a million quid to keep us up

We can’t spend any money, either.

we could always get a new young coach in, give him the summer transfer market and let his buy players to change our style from " old fashioned " to something a little more modern

I think people have got to put aside their dislike of warnock for the task in hand

We are running out of games

We don't have money to splash around

We need an experienced manager to stop us from getting relegated

I think Warnock is a little englander Maggie Thatcher tory boy and he's a chance but ....

He's a superb motivator and man manager and gets results

He's a short term option and the club must ensure that once may comes he is away from the first team

But warnock or a similar type of manager is what we need

We simply havnt got the time to mess about and analyse patterns of play and style

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I think people have got to put aside their dislike of warnock for the task in hand

We are running out of games

We don't have money to splash around

We need an experienced manager to stop us from getting relegated

I think Warnock is a little englander Maggie Thatcher tory boy and he's a chance but ....

He's a superb motivator and man manager and gets results

He's a short term option and the club must ensure that once may comes he is away from the first team

But warnock or a similar type of manager is what we need

We simply havnt got the time to mess about and analyse patterns of play and style

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There's a whole plethora of issues with Warnock coming back, but here's another...
How many of our current crop would actually want him back? How many did he upset last time he was here?
I'm thinking more of the younger players of course, but I'm sure quite a few wouldn't want him here.

Fvck warnock I don't want him anywhere near my club.
Narcissist

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Possibly but we’d have had to spend an awful lot of money for another manager to have a chance. We were really, really close to doing it but in hindsight he should have gone when we went down. I don’t want to be that guy but if Sala had landed, I think we’d have stayed up and Warnock would have rode off into the sunset a hero

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I don't think any manager would have done a much better job than Warnock that season considering how little we spent on transfer fees and player wages. I'm pretty sure we were the only club in the Premier League with a weekly wage bill under £1m. Only Huddersfield were spending anything close to us on wages and look what happened to them.

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

I don't think any manager would have done a much better job than Warnock that season considering how little we spent on transfer fees and player wages. I'm pretty sure we were the only club in the Premier League with a weekly wage bill under £1m. Only Huddersfield were spending anything close to us on wages and look what happened to them.

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No manager keeps us up with Peltier, Harris and Cunningham etc getting regular minutes. It was really odd how he spent the money we did have though. Murphy I get but Reid is the least Warnock like player I’ve ever seen :hehe:

Just a quick 4 month job to keep us up then he can get back to his poetry.

In our current position and what we can realistically get, he is our best chance of staying up. I think that’s fairly undeniable, regardless of what people think of his past here.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

but Reid is the least Warnock like player I’ve ever seen :hehe:

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we only had a small-ish pool of players to pick from though, the USM pool :hehe:

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Originally Posted by blue matt

we only had a small-ish pool of players to pick from though, the USM pool :hehe:

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Don't think Reid is USM. Tomlin was though.

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Originally Posted by Ninja

There's a whole plethora of issues with Warnock coming back, but here's another...
How many of our current crop would actually want him back? How many did he upset last time he was here?
I'm thinking more of the younger players of course, but I'm sure quite a few wouldn't want him here.

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Like who? Colwill and Davies didn’t break through under Harris either.
We had Bennett at left back who was better than Bagan (and no other manager has trusted him really either).

Not sure any can feel hard done by?

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Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo

Like who? Colwill and Davies didn’t break through under Harris either.
We had Bennett at left back who was better than Bagan (and no other manager has trusted him really either).

Not sure any can feel hard done by?

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Colwill and Davies, along with Bagan, all probably feel much aggrieved to be fair.
Almost zero opportunities for any of them.
If W*nker comes back, none of them will be getting a chance any time soon either.

On one hand, the jury is still out on all of them anyway. On the other, there's the whole debate about how Colin treats youth in general.

We're not a club with tens of millions to spend. We may well need to utilize all three, and maybe others too.

No chance of that under Colin, he'll have his hands in Tan's wallet via Mehmet.

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Originally Posted by Ninja

Colwill and Davies, along with Bagan, all probably feel much aggrieved to be fair.
Almost zero opportunities for any of them.
If W*nker comes back, none of them will be getting a chance any time soon either.

On one hand, the jury is still out on all of them anyway. On the other, there's the whole debate about how Colin treats youth in general.

We're not a club with tens of millions to spend. We may well need to utilize all three, and maybe others too.

No chance of that under Colin, he'll have his hands in Tan's wallet via Mehmet.

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What are you on about? Bagan and Davies had only just turned 18 when Warnock left the club and Colwill was still 17.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Suppose Warnock returns. Suppose we stay up. There's an important question - what happens then? Staying up is important but there has to be a longer term view beyond that.

I think we can say with some surety that Tan isn't going to be spending much, so the likelihood is that we're stuck with most of this season's squad for next season.

Does he get another contract?

Does he leave at the end of the season, when we'd be looking for yet another manager to get something out of the same group of players?

What is the plan? There has to be one. Looking at it solely from the point of view that the plan is to stay up and nothing else matters is simply short sighted.

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There is little point in asking this question as the only person who could answer it is Vincent Tan and he is not prepared to share any vision that he likely does not possess. It's a shambles. He had been a good owner on the whole in terms of supporting us financially, but his football knowledge is desperate and he hasn't learnt on the job. Simply, there is no plan!

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

If he comes then it must be a water tight contract until May

His job to keep us in the championship

If he does that he gets a bonus

Then we look for a long term appointment

It's no more complicated than that

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But where's the longer term view? What happens after? Who do we bring in? It's the same questions as we're asking now, but kicked 6 months down the line.

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Originally Posted by Ninja

I agree completely.
I just can't see him coming here for what, 4-5 months?
I reckon he'd want another year and therein lies the problem.
If he wants to come here til the end of the season with an incentive based contract then f*ck it, do it.
I just reckon he's got 18 months in his head judging by some of what he's said recently.

He's made it clear he doesn't want "years", but I reckon he'll want more than 4-5 months.

He probably wants one more go at the purse strings in June/July.

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Of course he'd want an 18 month contract. If it all went wrong he'd be quids in.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Suppose Warnock returns. Suppose we stay up. There's an important question - what happens then? Staying up is important but there has to be a longer term view beyond that.

I think we can say with some surety that Tan isn't going to be spending much, so the likelihood is that we're stuck with most of this season's squad for next season.

Does he get another contract?

Does he leave at the end of the season, when we'd be looking for yet another manager to get something out of the same group of players?

What is the plan? There has to be one. Looking at it solely from the point of view that the plan is to stay up and nothing else matters is simply short sighted.

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He has to be very short-term to the end of the season maximum, there are some good Managers about at the moment, I would try for Dean Smith or Chris Wilder as longer-term options, but would they come, and are they past their best too?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

If he comes then it must be a water tight contract until May

His job to keep us in the championship

If he does that he gets a bonus

Then we look for a long term appointment

It's no more complicated than that

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For once we agree :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

He has to be very short-term to the end of the season maximum, there are some good Managers about at the moment, I would try for Dean Smith or Chris Wilder as longer-term options, but would they come, and are they past their best too?

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I'm just against all this short-termism. Asking Warnock, or anyone, to come in just to save us this season is kicking the can down the line a few months. None of the problems will be resolved.

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Originally Posted by Harry Bosch

There is little point in asking this question as the only person who could answer it is Vincent Tan and he is not prepared to share any vision that he likely does not possess. It's a shambles. He had been a good owner on the whole in terms of supporting us financially, but his football knowledge is desperate and he hasn't learnt on the job. Simply, there is no plan!

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His football knowledge got us to the Premiership. The owners of other clubs who haven't achieved such greatness are the one's defunct of 'football knowledge'

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I'm just against all this short-termism. Asking Warnock, or anyone, to come in just to save us this season is kicking the can down the line a few months. None of the problems will be resolved.

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Yes that's true, I think Tan has his back against the wall, he probably doesn't trust Dalman and Choo to make a good selection and can't afford to go down, he knows what Warnock did last time and is probably praying he can do it again.

If he does hopefully he then appoints a new director to run the club, someone with football knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I'm just against all this short-termism. Asking Warnock, or anyone, to come in just to save us this season is kicking the can down the line a few months. None of the problems will be resolved.

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yep same here. although for example if we get in someone like wilder who wants to play a very different way from what we. currently are, would the players be able to pick it up quickly enough?
I'd still rather have a long term appointment than give it to Warnock for a few months

Long term appointment for me as well, otherwise the mistakes keep getting perpetuated.

They've made long term appointments every time though.

They've just chosen so badly that they turn out to be short term appointments.

What we need is somebody else who knows what they're doing picking the manager. Surely we've had enough goes at it with this current bunch now to safely say they haven't got a scooby when it comes to picking a manager.

It isn't Warnock. He has retired