Playing the right way?

Over the past few seasons, and going back a bit further for most other clubs at this level, i think it's fair to say that we have seen a concerted effort for players to play a more possession based style of play, more build up, movement, cutting between the thirds, pulling the opposition out and exploiting pockets of space, it doesn't seem to work for the majority of clubs at our level, differing degrees of success and all that, but it got me thinking about intelligence levels and speed of thought in order to execute that kind of style of play.

There are younger more progressive managers (in terms of footballing style) coming through, have been since Pep revolutionised the game with Barca, certainly in the modern era. The question i ask myself is are these coaches and managers intelligent enough to play in a way that emulates the greatest players and coaches on Earth? I suppose that it is always best to emulate the greatest, raise standards, improve individuals and the team, but are the majority of championship players capable-is footballing intelligence the same as the intelligence needed to be the best and most innovative at whatever a person does for a living, at the highest level?

People like Pep are borderline genius, out there by themselves, they can take brilliant players and make them world beaters,they can add another dimension to their game, plus, these players are clever to start with-The question is, what are we and others trying to achieve?

Shouldn't we as a club work towards getting the best out of the players in terms of intelligence and ability, make it easier and more comfortable for them? Strike some kind of balance between good football and well worked play and not overloading poor-average players with things that they will never achieve, or do we as a club employ the likes of Morison, Hudson, etc just because they have completed the paper work and have an admiration for a style of play that is incredibly difficult to carry out when the staff employed aren't bright enough to carry it out, and i include the coaching and managerial staff in this.

Is it really that hard to pass the ball to the right place and run into/stay in the right position? Bournemouth were doing it in Division 3.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

Is it really that hard to pass the ball to the right place and run into/stay in the right position? Bournemouth were doing it in Division 3.

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Agree, the championship is a good level of football, players making it at this level should be able to pass and move

There is no right way to play football, only a winning and losing way.

Spurs fans always want to play the Spurs way yet are never happy because they win nothing.

Teams playing the 'right' way have still been relegated and sacked managers.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

Is it really that hard to pass the ball to the right place and run into/stay in the right position? Bournemouth were doing it in Division 3.

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I think that it is for plenty of footballers. The way you describe it is probably the easy bit, it's when a player needs that bit of vision to play the special pass and another with the ability to make the run is when there's a struggle on, the kill moment so to speak. That's the bit where we need clever players, and we just don't have them in our squad or aren't able to get that out of them. In my opinion our game yesterday could have been ten others this season. We have no idea, no conviction, no confidence, no belief, and we now look like we are at the stage where players aren't prepared to fail. I don't know if better coaching and management is the answer, but as we all know, shit managers are aplenty, right across the board, and if they can't identify why things aren't working, why players-staff are failing on a weekly basis, then attempt to change that by not setting standards that can't be achieved, then i'd say that we are ****ed. Stupid people do the same stupid shit and come up with the same results, or something like that.

You absolutely have to work with what you have which granted isn't very much at the moment.

Thinking even of some basic, easy set piece goals, we've lost so much of that threat. Even 6 or 7 well timed set piece goals could potentially have us fairly comfortable right now considering our defence on the whole has been decent, certainly compared to those around us.

Ideally we could get someone in that can get us back to doing some basic things well. Then build upon it over a few transfer windows. That person would need the time to do that even if it meant relegation.

The owner should be taking the right advice and then give what he can to support his choice, and show confidence in that person.

Our current methods of changing the style and managers is too wishy washy for anyone to put any sort of consistent style or identity in place.

Never happening though is it.

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Originally Posted by Trigger

You absolutely have to work with what you have which granted isn't very much at the moment.

Thinking even of some basic, easy set piece goals, we've lost so much of that threat. Even 6 or 7 well timed set piece goals could potentially have us fairly comfortable right now considering our defence on the whole has been decent, certainly compared to those around us.

Ideally we could get someone in that can get us back to doing some basic things well. Then build upon it over a few transfer windows. That person would need the time to do that even if it meant relegation.

The owner should be taking the right advice and then give what he can to support his choice, and show confidence in that person.

Our current methods of changing the style and managers is too wishy washy for anyone to put any sort of consistent style or identity in place.

Never happening though is it.

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Yeah, we just can't create anything in the final third, it grinds to a halt, players look bemused in that area, like they've been transported there from another galaxy. I'm just so bored of it, it's paniful to watch, predictable etc.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

Is it really that hard to pass the ball to the right place and run into/stay in the right position? Bournemouth were doing it in Division 3.

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I think there's been a distinct tendency at various Championship clubs in recent years to over-complicate things. Modern coaches seem to want players to play in way that many at this level are simply incapable of doing. The standard of football in the Championship seems to have steadily deteriorated during the last decade or so, and this season it's atrocious, but I wonder if coaches over-complicating the game is a significant factor in bringing about that situation?

A good example is playing out from the back. The best teams at the highest levels can generally do that comfortably, but the further down the ladder you go, the less comfortable the players become. Week after week we are seeing goals at Championship level resulting from goalkeepers and defenders messing about with the ball in and around their own penalty areas when the sensible and obvious thing to do would be to simply clear it.

The best teams at this level (and any other level for that matter) manage to find a balance between a possession-based game and doing the basics when necessary, but it seems that some coaches these days are so hell-bent on their players retaining possession that the basics get neglected. Not only does that mean their teams tend to look worse than they probably are, but the football they produce is often sterile as a result of the coach's 'philosophy'.

There’s another aspect to playing ‘the right way’. Every throw in goes backwards. Most free kicks go sideways at best. The recent last minute first half corner ended up with our keeper. We could start by playing ‘the right way’ towards their frigging goal.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I think there's been a distinct tendency at various Championship clubs in recent years to over-complicate things. Modern coaches seem to want players to play in way that many at this level are simply incapable of doing. The standard of football in the Championship seems to have steadily deteriorated during the last decade or so, and this season it's atrocious, but I wonder if coaches over-complicating the game is a significant factor in bringing about that situation?

A good example is playing out from the back. The best teams at the highest levels can generally do that comfortably, but the further down the ladder you go, the less comfortable the players become. Week after week we are seeing goals at Championship level resulting from goalkeepers and defenders messing about with the ball in and around their own penalty areas when the sensible and obvious thing to do would be to simply clear it.

The best teams at this level (and any other level for that matter) manage to find a balance between a possession-based game and doing the basics when necessary, but it seems that some coaches these days are so hell-bent on their players retaining possession that the basics get neglected. Not only does that mean their teams tend to look worse than they probably are, but the football they produce is often sterile as a result of the coach's 'philosophy'.

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The playing from the back thing was quite ridiculous earlier in the season. In general, I'm a fan of it because obviously it retains possession instead of lumping a 50/50 ball upfield. But you don't have to do it every time. When Morison was at the club it was almost as if the players had been told they weren't allowed to play long balls. Obviously, there needs to be a game plan but surely any professional footballer is capable of a simple thought process like "I'm under pressure, do I pass or do I clear it?".

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I think there's been a distinct tendency at various Championship clubs in recent years to over-complicate things. Modern coaches seem to want players to play in way that many at this level are simply incapable of doing. The standard of football in the Championship seems to have steadily deteriorated during the last decade or so, and this season it's atrocious, but I wonder if coaches over-complicating the game is a significant factor in bringing about that situation?

A good example is playing out from the back. The best teams at the highest levels can generally do that comfortably, but the further down the ladder you go, the less comfortable the players become. Week after week we are seeing goals at Championship level resulting from goalkeepers and defenders messing about with the ball in and around their own penalty areas when the sensible and obvious thing to do would be to simply clear it.

The best teams at this level (and any other level for that matter) manage to find a balance between a possession-based game and doing the basics when necessary, but it seems that some coaches these days are so hell-bent on their players retaining possession that the basics get neglected. Not only does that mean their teams tend to look worse than they probably are, but the football they produce is often sterile as a result of the coach's 'philosophy'.

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Yes, this all day. This is what i was alluding to. The other point i was trying to make is that are these coaches just a bit thick? They look the part, love clip boards and white daps, have invented a new 'Football' language that they seem to think makes them sound articulate and thoughtful, calm and collected, when the reality is that it's straight out of the David Brent school of management.

City clearly don’t play the “right way”. Considering the change of style this season (which was less pronounced under Hudson, and the signs are the same applies to Whitehead), we’ve coped pretty well when it comes to playing out from the back ( I can’t think of a goal we’ve conceded which has been down to that) and Allsop has helped in this regard.We’ve conceded just thirty one goals in twenty eight games which is a record that would see us in the top half if it was supplemented by even an average scoring rate.

The problem comes when we cross the halfway line - in fact it’s before that, the frequent passing back to the keeper is often down to a lack of movement in front of defenders and midfielders which seriously limits the prospect for constructive forward passes..A lack of attacking potency has been a problem since day one, so there’s always been that pressure for more goals and rather than rise to the challenge, our players have crumbled under the pressure and have got progressively worse in terms of attacking play as the weeks have gone by.

In another thread, there’s a claim that the advert for a manager says the successful candidate must get the team to shoot more. That sounds like typical Tan, not least because it completely misses the point. If anything we shoot too much because the knowledge that we can’t create makes players think in terms of shooting once they get to within around twenty five yards of goal and, with our forward players, the results are so predictable. We had twenty two goal attempts yesterday which would be more than enough for a couple of goals in most teams, but only four were on target and I can’t remember their keeper having a difficult goal attempt to save.

We’re where we are for one reason only (I’m not talking about off field matters when I say that) in my opinion and that’s because we are garbage at the attacking side of the game and we’d still be garbage at it no matter what our style of football was.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

City clearly don’t play the “right way”. Considering the change of style this season (which was less pronounced under Hudson, and the signs the same applies to Whitehead, we’ve coped pretty well when it comes to playing out from the back ( I can’t think of a goal we’ve conceded which has been down to that) and Allsop has helped in this regard - we’ve conceded just thirty one goals in twenty eight games which is a record that would see us in the top half if it was supplemented by even an average scoring rate.

The problem comes when we cross the halfway line - in fact it’s before that, the frequent passing back to the keeper is often down to a lack of movement in front of defenders and midfielders which seriously limits the prospect for constructive forward passes..A lack of attacking potency has been a problem since day one, so there’s always been that pressure for more goals and rather than rise to the challenge, our players have crumbled under the pressure and have got progressively worse as the weeks have gone by.

In another thread, there’s a claim that the advert for a manager says the successful candidate must get the team to shoot more. That sounds like typical Tan, not least because it completely misses the point. If anything we shoot too much because the knowledge that we can’t create makes players think in terms of shooting once they get to within around twenty five yards of goal and, with our forward players, the results are so predictable - we had twenty two goal attempts yesterday which would be more than enough for a couple of goals in most teams, but only four were on target and I can’t remember their keeper having a difficult goal attempt to save.

We’re where we are for one reason only (I’m not talking about off field matters when I say that) in my opinion and that’s because we are garbage at the attacking side of the game and we’d still be garbage at it no matter what our style of football was.

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Spot on

I for one would advocate a return to route one, if it kept us up. Needs must.

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

There’s another aspect to playing ‘the right way’. Every throw in goes backwards. Most free kicks go sideways at best. The recent last minute first half corner ended up with our keeper. We could start by playing ‘the right way’ towards their frigging goal.

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We were always told to "throw it up the line". It always amazed me how this simple approach always worked. The defender would invariably put it out for another throw-in 20 yards further up the pitch.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Yes, this all day. This is what i was alluding to. The other point i was trying to make is that are these coaches just a bit thick? They look the part, love clip boards and white daps, have invented a new 'Football' language that they seem to think makes them sound articulate and thoughtful, calm and collected, when the reality is that it's straight out of the David Brent school of management.

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I'm with you on this and it happens at all levels of the game.

Stick a tight tracksuit on someone who's just passed his online football leaders course and thinks he's Pep.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Yes, this all day. This is what i was alluding to. The other point i was trying to make is that are these coaches just a bit thick? They look the part, love clip boards and white daps, have invented a new 'Football' language that they seem to think makes them sound articulate and thoughtful, calm and collected, when the reality is that it's straight out of the David Brent school of management.

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Heard my first “in the building” from Whitehead yesterday.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Heard my first “in the building” from Whitehead yesterday.

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Jesus! It makes you want to jump into a burning building.

Ideally your team would be able to build from the back and go direct. Keeps the opposition guessing then.

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Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman

I'm with you on this and it happens at all levels of the game.

Stick a tight tracksuit on someone who's just passed his online football leaders course and thinks he's Pep.

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I walk my dogs over Heath Park, every evening. During the spring and summer there's the coaching dads who take the local kids, good on them, it's a commitment, i know, i've done it. I sometimes try and listen in on the way these blokes instruct these kids, and it's like....**** me.... it's straight from the manual, the kids haven't got a clue, they're trying to get them to pass and move when most of them don't even have a touch yet.

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Originally Posted by tforturton

I for one would advocate a return to route one, if it kept us up. Needs must.

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I don't think this thread was intended to be about Cardiff City - it was about football in general. However, you can advocate a return to route one football as much as you like but it won't make any difference. This team, even with a couple of sturdy additions, wouldn't be remotely capable of playing route one tactics. Thankfully, City just don't have the players for it.

As plenty of others have said, what this side is crying out for is a couple of players who can be a bit more decisive in the final third. It's no more complicated than that. Such players wouldn't suddenly make the team into some sort of a force at this level, not by any means. Let's face it, this a below-average squad by Championship standards. However, I think they would probably be enough to keep the club up if the rest of the side gained a bit more confidence in and around the box due to the presence of the right kind of additions.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

The best teams at this level (and any other level for that matter) manage to find a balance between a possession-based game and doing the basics when necessary, but it seems that some coaches these days are so hell-bent on their players retaining possession that the basics get neglected. Not only does that mean their teams tend to look worse than they probably are, but the football they produce is often sterile as a result of the coach's 'philosophy'.

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Bingo. Loads of teams at this level just pass the ball pretty aimlessly around the midfield waiting for a chance to magically open up. There's not much thought as to how it will happen but you can't give the ball away. Unless you're dragging defenders out of shape with your passing and movement, it is quite easy to defend against, especially if you've played 10/15 passes before you pass the ball to an attacking player which just allows the other team to get set.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I don't think this thread was intended to be about Cardiff City - it was about football in general. However, you can advocate a return to route one football as much as you like but it won't make any difference. This team, even with a couple of sturdy additions, wouldn't be remotely capable of playing route one tactics. Thankfully, City just don't have the players for it.

As plenty of others have said, what this side is crying out for is a couple of players who can be a bit more decisive in the final third. It's no more complicated than that. Such players wouldn't suddenly make the team into some sort of a force at this level, not by any means. Let's face it, this a below-average squad by Championship standards. However, I think they would probably be enough to keep the club up if the rest of the side gained a bit more confidence in and around the box due to the presence of the right kind of additions.

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I think "below-average" is being kind. It's clearly one of the worst five or six squads in the Championship.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Yes, this all day. This is what i was alluding to. The other point i was trying to make is that are these coaches just a bit thick? They look the part, love clip boards and white daps, have invented a new 'Football' language that they seem to think makes them sound articulate and thoughtful, calm and collected, when the reality is that it's straight out of the David Brent school of management.

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Lots of supporters buy into it as well. There are plenty of people on here who think that Morison just needed to be given more time.

Playing Perry Ng at centre-back in a back four because it helps us play out from defence is a good example of this type of nonsense thinking. He got exposed defending high balls when playing as one of three centre-backs last season, but Morison and Hudson didn't care.

We should never have moved on the warriors in the team

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

We should never have moved on the warriors in the team

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Perhaps younger "modern " managers in tight fitting track suits get a bit intimidated by the warrior types.

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Originally Posted by John Buchanan

Perhaps younger "modern " managers in tight fitting track suits get a bit intimidated by the warrior types.

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Those who know what's best for us
Will rise up and save us from ourselves

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I walk my dogs over Heath Park, every evening. During the spring and summer there's the coaching dads who take the local kids, good on them, it's a commitment, i know, i've done it. I sometimes try and listen in on the way these blokes instruct these kids, and it's like....**** me.... it's straight from the manual, the kids haven't got a clue, they're trying to get them to pass and move when most of them don't even have a touch yet.

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speaking from a grassroots football coach point of view, its a strange gig, get the basics right but start in the right way, get it right straight from the start

unlike when I started, which was 4 ( and a 1/2 ) years ago, the girls team had just finished the 1st season, they were playing up a year ( to accommodate the coaches daughter ) and had never played before ( so playing against girls that were 1 year old and had played upto 3 years football ), they were getting beaten with ease, myself and another dad ( ex semi-pro at Bristol Rovers ) took over at the right age group ( as the old coaches daughter quit )

A few were tidy footballers, some had never kicked the ball before, we had a very good keeper ( still the best in the league ) and we were be happy for her to send the ball long and attack with our quickest players ( 1 who had just joined us after playing for a boys team for 3 years ), we had a very good Defence and a very strong centre Mid, we hide our poorer players on the wing, it worked well and we were a very tough team to beat

as time moved on, we moved onto pass and move, had a season of struggling a little with the transition between the long ball and playing the right way :hehe:, now we can get the ball from GK to attack with nice little passes and it looks great, we are now back to being hard to beat and it looks bloody great , its been hard work at times, we train twice per week ( which goes against the norm of only once per week, and our club struggles with that at times, but we give up our time, so its on us, they shouldn't moan )

thinking back, it worked well for us, we have 6 of our original 10 players still playing, we worked out last week, we have have 15 girls come and join us and then leave, some stayed for a season, some for a few months, our squad is now 16 players ( 6 original players ) so we have had 31 girls try football, research tells us that its difficult to keep girls between the age of 13 - 16 in sports ( any sports ) so we aint doing too bad

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Lots of supporters buy into it as well. There are plenty of people on here who think that Morison just needed to be given more time.

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And you can prove them wrong?

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Lots of supporters buy into it as well. There are plenty of people on here who think that Morison just needed to be given more time.

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It isn't just that Morison should have been given more time, it was that we had no viable alternative lined up.

Morison was a little unlucky because of the number of clear goalscoring chances that were missed (Watters could have scored a hatfull) during the early part of the season. These chances weren't being created under Hudson.

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

There’s another aspect to playing ‘the right way’. Every throw in goes backwards. Most free kicks go sideways at best. The recent last minute first half corner ended up with our keeper. We could start by playing ‘the right way’ towards their frigging goal.

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This is what pisses me off about football.
They have a free kick on the halfway line and 15/20 seconds later, the ball is back with their own goalkeeper.

It might suit some, (when they’re winning), but it bores me shitless

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

And you can prove them wrong?

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The burden of proof lies with those making the claim.

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

The burden of proof lies with those making the claim.

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You’re making a claim as well. It’s something that can’t be proved either way.

Get the ball

Put it in their net

Stop them scoring

Everything else really is irrelevant

People are pissed off not because of the style of football we are or are not playing

It's because we are not winning games ff

Goals and points we need not pretentious triangles