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Yvette Cooper was a guest at George Osborne's wedding.
Keith Starmer, Rachel Reeves and Wes Streeting were all guests at Rupert Murdoch's summer party.
None of the above will stand with striking workers.
Just in case you were wondering whose side the Labour Party is on.
I agree with you completely. Under Starmer we will see business as usual. He's in the pockets of the mega wealthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
I don’t, because he seems to saying I’m not voting Labour because they are just as bad as the Conservatives. I’ve little time for Starmer, but I do not believe that - particularly when it comes to the Conservatives post 2019.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
You have read it wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Sheep in Wolves clothing politics.
There is no difference its just different shades of Tory which Blair triumphed with and was badged with at the time asca huge sucess .
Then we had Labour hate Blair .
Now we have the current Labout party consistently referring too his triumphs ??
It does leave the Blair haters in an awful quandary and risk of hypocrisy .
Yes you can hold your nose and vote sadly its still hypocrisy, one either has strong ideals or not , watered down ideals seem inappropriate especially after so.much anger aimed at Blarism or now Starmisim .
Wes Streetism lets use private sector to.help NHS ??
Rachel Reaves ironic less strikes under Blair government statement speaks volumes as to what is going on .
That’s looking at things completely from the point of view of the party you have no time for, I’m doing the same and that’s why I’ll be voting in the way that offers the best chance of getting the Conservatives (particularly this set of Conservatives) out.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Being a fairly simple person I look at things in a simple way.
The only party that has a chance of a majority these days will be fairly centrist.
A party leaning too much to the right will alienate half the population
a party leaning too much to the left alienates the other half
We might not like it, but we are where we are.
I'd rather a relatively centrist party be in power that has a slight lean to the left than the other way. So Starmer has it right and will have my vote.
Is LOM trying to hand out lessons on hypocrisy? :hehe:
Issue for me is, anyone who says they're centrist in my experience turns out to be pretty right wing, e.g. JamesWales.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfeathers
I don't think Starmer is centrist anymore, he is going right at a rapid pace, my guess is as the corporate donations come in.
I'd consider myself centrist but do naturally lean to the left so I guess you're right there'll always be a bias either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
Surely the party would hold Starmer back from going too far to the dark side.
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by superfeathers
When was the last time the UK voted in a truly Socialist Govt ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
Socialism is a term used by daft old tories living in the pastQuote:
Originally Posted by pipster
A few fringe meetings of people in big jumpers at labour party conferences or students waving around placards does not mean the huge chunk of people who don't vote for the tory filth are depressed, angry or upset that there is not a socialist ......May as well insert communist ......government in Britain
People like us don't like Tories we have always been around and always will be
If starmer gets a foot in the door then that's a start
He can be replaced or step down when he realises he's not the messiah
It came rather close in 2017 when Theresa May blew a huge lead in the polls and Jeremy Corbyn somehow managed to force a hung parliament. It might also be worth noting that turnout for that election was the highest in decades.Quote:
Originally Posted by pipster
Never before or since in living memory has one MP been so utterly savaged by the national newspapers, virtually all of which are Tory and quite far right leaning in cases like The Sun and the Daily Heil. Corbyn scared the living shit out of them. We'll never see any sort of socialism in the UK because the elite won't allow it. We haven't got true democracy at all.
Or you could try answering the question, if / but / maybe isnt an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
When was the last time a Socialist Govt was elected in a general election?
Or you could try what someone else just did - and redefine socialism instead.
To answer my own question - I would probably Harold Wilson in the early 1970's. I wouldn't class Blair as a socialist - and Brown never won an election.
I remember Wilson - who I'd say was socialist before he became PM - then realised the job is slightly harder than he thought.
For someone who isn't a tory ........yeah right ......you spent a lot of time slagging off the alternativeQuote:
Originally Posted by pipster
Thou doth protest too much my lord
I think Syriza in Greece were generally considered socialist weren't they? Totally fcked over by the EU of course, which makes the British Lefts love affair with Brussels all the more baffling.
Syriza won a second election I remember, before being voted out by Greek Conservatives
Let me try again - Sludge in your opinion when was the last time we had a truly Socialist Govt ie one that actually won a general election ?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Dont try and redefine Socialism or claim Corbyn won - when he didnt (that's Trump territory) - just answer that one small question
Oh here he is againQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
He's not a tory but he's giving his right wing perspective of the EU
Bargain basement Nigel Farage
I don't care when we last had a socialist govtQuote:
Originally Posted by pipster
I am as much a socialist as I am one of your lot
I just despise the Tories and will be voting to kick you out
On your way
The EU is very right wing, pro business.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
See this is what gets me. You are pro EU and pro Left, and what? Have no idea about the long running dispute between the Greek Govt and the EU?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
It was basically an anti austerity socialist Greek govt vs a Pro-austerity EU.
Did you miss all that?
Guardian: "Syriza’s historic win puts Greece on collision course with Europe"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/25/syriza-historic-win-greece-european-union-austerity
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30977587
The greek Government couldn't even build hospitals or open medical centres such was the force from the EU. Ireland has suffered as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
That's the analysis from finished old pub bores like corbyn and Tony BennQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
It basically promotes market forces at every turn. Its why across the EU most socialist parties (as opposed to centre-left) are eurosceptic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
The largest party in the EU parliament has also been the centre-right for years now and likely to get stronger still.
The British left should have been comfortable with Brexit, esp when the working class overwhelmingly voted for it. They couldn't do so because they let Farage dictate things (and also lots have lovely holiday homes in the south of France, darling)
Absolute bollocksQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Corbyn and Benn were or are both Teetotal.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Plenty on the left were in favour of Brexit.
Weird to suggest otherwise.
I agree. But generally the institutions werent. The story of Paul Embery and the FBU is an interesting oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Okay the last comment was purposefully tongue in cheek, but literally none of that is bollocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Here is what Britain's foremost socialist paper said in 2016
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-1b...a-leave-vote-1
It's bizarre - Sludge is even more thick than he usually is.
I wonder if he was aware that Corbyn went to a grammar school (he later regretted it and blamed his wealthy parents)
Corbyns son also went to a grammar school (one of the best in London) he blamed this on his wife - but his sons seem tyo have done very well from their education - especially Seb - who now works for John McDonnell (Jezza's side kick) I wonder how he got that job... nepo kids...
Corbyn is a cock and I am glad he's out of the frameQuote:
Originally Posted by pipster
I couldn't give a toss about what he and the likes of Benn did or do
Imagine what utter bores they would be if they were drinkers ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
50 quid to sit and listen to all that cobblers
When it comes to unions the fbu and its leaders are very right wing and always have beenQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Tory lite sludge.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Well the union leaders in this case were very pro-EU and Paul Embery wasn't...so...you are somewhat contradicting your earlier point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Anyway...
Would that be the same Ireland as the one with a GDP per capita which is one of the highest in Europe, and polls suggesting a 75% plus support for EU membership?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
I won't be voting for the real socialist communist party that idiots like you waste your time withQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
A vote for them may as well be a vote for the tories because it certainly isn't going to defeat them at an election
Keep dreaming
The fire brigades union has done little to deal with racism and its got a lot of knuckleheads in its membershipQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Not a lot going on upstairs with some of those chaps
Paul Embery is a libertarian , I ignore what he says
Tony Benn was a phenomenal orator.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Neither will i be voting for them. I will vote Labour, and it will hurt me, but it means that the Tories are out, so you know **** all as usual. I am Left wing, you're not, more of a centrist right winger, the man who on several occasions has suggested the Libs and Labour joining forces, do you actually understand what would happen if that became a reality? Obviously not. My politics will always be left wing, but i will vote Labour, even if it makes me feel sick. Real Left wing politics doesn't have a chance in this country. It's beaten back by the media at every opportunity, the public are made to feel scared. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Labour will get in, implement pretty much what the Tories are suggesting or carry on with privatising services and cosying up to big business, while shitting on workers. You'll complain about it, that's certain, although there's nothing you can do about it because clowns like yourself believe there can never be an alternative. You're part of the problem sludge. Now ****off.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY