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Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Public transport is abysmal in this country. When you look at some of the transport projects happening across the globe it’s embarrassing how shit we’re doing.
The Paris Metro expansion is seeing ~150 miles of new track being laid, 4 whole new lines added, 2 being extended and 68 new stations built. All of it expected to be completed by 2030.
India a currently in the process of crisscrossing the country with tracks to be used by the Shinkansen bullet trains with the plan to have all their major cities linked by 2040.
China have built 26,000 miles of high speed rail since 2007. With a further 19,000 miles planned for 2035.
I wonder how many of the 140 miles of HS2 will be done by 2035?
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
There have been recent threads on the disaster of water privatisation - private profit, public debt, leaks and waste, and shit in the rivers.
But my top privatisation crime is the bus system. Apologies for the Guardian link (and it is a couple of years old) but this piece neatly summarises the mess that has been created:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...private-market
https://chrgj.org/2021/07/19/press-r...nited-kingdom/
Almost four decades ago, Margaret Thatcher’s government boldly predicted that privatising Britain’s bus sector would lead to “lower fares, new services, and more passengers”, while removing “any potential future liability on the taxpayer”.
Today, those claims seem farcical, with much of the bus sector in crisis. Private operators have profited handsomely, but passengers dependent on buses to get to work, access services and visit loved ones have suffered greatly. Taxpayers are subsidising corporate profits, while companies run a service so confusing and ineffective that riders have abandoned it in droves, undermining efforts to reduce greenhouse emissions.
London’s relatively well-run and highly regulated system is, in fact, an outlier in Britain. In the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, Thatcher’s extreme form of privatisation and deregulation largely prohibited municipal services and left it to private operators to decide which routes to run and how much to charge.
This arrangement, which is almost unique among wealthy nations, has delivered an expensive, unreliable and dysfunctional service. In England alone, more than 3,000 local-authority-supported routes have been cut or reduced in the past two decades, fares are up 403% since 1987 and ridership plummeted by 38% outside London between 1982 and 2016-17. Bus services are fragmented, with multiple operators running uncoordinated routes, each with their own tickets, schedules and maps. And passengers complain of unreliable service and poor coverage.
The privatised system has also proven remarkably expensive. Unlike public operators, which reinvest profits in service and cross-subsidise unprofitable routes, private companies extract profits as shareholder dividends. Meanwhile, the public is still on the hook. Taxpayer money accounts for 42% of funding for bus services in England outside London....
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Been basically pony under public and private ownership, IMO it's gotten worse and worse under the current gangsters at No.10, also, and having worked on the Hinkley power station project for the last 6 years, capital equipment projects are becoming ridiculously difficult to complete, like other projects Hinckley went through the C19 stuff but the 3 year nonsense will translate into something like a 5-7 year delay before it's commissioned, the similar plant in France has yet to be commissioned!!!. CARDIFF metro system, don't make me laugh 😆 😂 😄 🤣 😅
There has to be a mind set change from the public way before worrying about public or private ownership.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Privatization of infrastructure and utilities has been an absolute disaster IMO.
I may be a bit naive and don’t know the numbers but Labour should be pushing nationalization of rail and utilities.
Make it affordable and put the profits into the country.
Is it feasible or folly?
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wash DC Blue
Privatization of infrastructure and utilities has been an absolute disaster IMO.
I may be a bit naive and don’t know the numbers but Labour should be pushing nationalization of rail and utilities.
Make it affordable and put the profits into the country.
Is it feasible or folly?
Labour are too scared to do anything like that even though they should. They really are just letting this useless govt hang themselves.
Labour arent going to win the election the Tories (rightly as they are an utter joke) are going to lose it. Labour will steer well away from anything seen as controversial.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Rubbish before and rubbish afterwards
Should follow the Welsh water model instead
Not for profit core with some services contracted out
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Thatcher and her privatisation nonsense will never be overturned
But it freaking well should be
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Labour are too scared to do anything like that even though they should. They really are just letting this useless govt hang themselves.
Labour arent going to win the election the Tories (rightly as they are an utter joke) are going to lose it. Labour will steer well away from anything seen as controversial.
It wouldn't surprise me either if labour under starmer don't win the election
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
It wouldn't surprise me either if labour under starmer don't win the election
If they dont we may as well give up. You will always get those who will always vote for anyone in a blue rosette. However I dont think there are enough thickos to vote Tory this time round.
If Labour are only 5% up in the polls though the Tories will win. A significant amount of Tories are rightly embarrassed to be Tories and wont admit they are voting for them.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
If they dont we may as well give up. You will always get those who will always vote for anyone in a blue rosette. However I dont think there are enough thickos to vote Tory this time round.
If Labour are only 5% up in the polls though the Tories will win. A significant amount of Tories are rightly embarrassed to be Tories and wont admit they are voting for them.
If the country votes in the tories then I am done with mainstream politics and certainly done with Labour as any sort of alternative
I will vote green
I can't believe Starmer is backed up by Angela Raynor and Rachel Reeves they are as hopeless as he is
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
If they dont we may as well give up. You will always get those who will always vote for anyone in a blue rosette. However I dont think there are enough thickos to vote Tory this time round.
If Labour are only 5% up in the polls though the Tories will win. A significant amount of Tories are rightly embarrassed to be Tories and wont admit they are voting for them.
Well I certainly won’t be. I have voted this way in the past…
1992 - Conservative (John Major v Kinnock)
1997 - New Labour (Blair v John Major)
2001 - Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones - best leader ever in my view for PC)
2005 - Conservative (Blair v Michael Howard)
2010 - Conservative (Cameron v Gormless Clown)
2015 - Conservative (Cameron v Ed Miliband)
2017 - Conservative (May v Corbyn)
2019 - Conservative (Johnson v Corbyn)
This time I will certainly not be voting for Conservatives nor Labour, with private equity backing both parties we can continue to look at the ugliest element of capitalism calling the shots on public policy: good companies all over the place being loaded up with debt and put in trouble. After all that is the operating model of private equity and I hate it.
This time I suspect I will be looking at abstention, or Plaid Cymru - with Welsh affairs being my main consideration and reducing the destructive monopoly of low-IQ, low-performance socialist Welsh Labour in Wales.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
There have been recent threads on the disaster of water privatisation - private profit, public debt, leaks and waste, and shit in the rivers.
But my top privatisation crime is the bus system. Apologies for the Guardian link (and it is a couple of years old) but this piece neatly summarises the mess that has been created:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...private-market
https://chrgj.org/2021/07/19/press-r...nited-kingdom/
Almost four decades ago, Margaret Thatcher’s government boldly predicted that privatising Britain’s bus sector would lead to “lower fares, new services, and more passengers”, while removing “any potential future liability on the taxpayer”.
Today, those claims seem farcical, with much of the bus sector in crisis. Private operators have profited handsomely, but passengers dependent on buses to get to work, access services and visit loved ones have suffered greatly. Taxpayers are subsidising corporate profits, while companies run a service so confusing and ineffective that riders have abandoned it in droves, undermining efforts to reduce greenhouse emissions.
London’s relatively well-run and highly regulated system is, in fact, an outlier in Britain. In the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, Thatcher’s extreme form of privatisation and deregulation largely prohibited municipal services and left it to private operators to decide which routes to run and how much to charge.
This arrangement, which is almost unique among wealthy nations, has delivered an expensive, unreliable and dysfunctional service. In England alone, more than 3,000 local-authority-supported routes have been cut or reduced in the past two decades, fares are up 403% since 1987 and ridership plummeted by 38% outside London between 1982 and 2016-17. Bus services are fragmented, with multiple operators running uncoordinated routes, each with their own tickets, schedules and maps. And passengers complain of unreliable service and poor coverage.
The privatised system has also proven remarkably expensive. Unlike public operators, which reinvest profits in service and cross-subsidise unprofitable routes, private companies extract profits as shareholder dividends. Meanwhile, the public is still on the hook. Taxpayer money accounts for 42% of funding for bus services in England outside London....
Buses were shit prior to privatization. Services were shit after. I’d say the model suggests that public ownership should apply there.
Utilities? BT, electric and gas have been superb. The old gas board, water board, electric board and the telecomms were absolute garbage and service was awful. Under Hyder Utilities, Welsh Water was also good. In my view it wasn’t private ownership that failed here, and the huge success of Hyder under Graham Hawker was testimony it could be done. Two things here, which The Guardian has conveniently chosent to forget:
1. Gordon Brown introduced a massive windfall tax on water companies around 2000 which murdered their capital base. This is what architected the downfall of a Hyder, let to its break-up and capital destruction. Until that moment, Welsh utilities were both the darling of the UK stock narket and were investing heavily. Thanks Gordon, you useless prick. That cause a loss of 5,000 jobs in Cardiff at a stroke of a pen. I know - I worked there.
2. Things recovered after the Bove carnage, but never back to what they were. After the dotcom crash interest rates dropped and private equity started creeping in. So privatisation had worked initially - lower bills, competition and better service. All of this was confirmed by statistics released by the respective regulators. New Labour had all the power at their disposal in a decade of power to enshrine in law the debt floors to restrict private equity’s LBO / leverage models. Australia did it. Britain did not. Ironically Macquarie, the Aussie private equity firm, shackled by the Aussie government in the utilities sector, came to the UK and bought up UK utilities where they were loaded to the max with debt, and many now in trouble. In addition, the governent could control dividend payout ratios, or apply
minimum capiral investment ratios in the water industries. Labour turned a blind eye and did nothing. But then again, neither did Cameron, May norJohnson.
So this wasn’t a Thatcher issue at all, as the Thatcher-haters love to think, the twisted bunch. Up until Labour’s windfall tax, private utilities were making a profit, lowering costs, re-investing capital, and improving service. Everyone was a winner. The sequenceof events to downfall were:
1. Brown’s windfall tax hammered utiltiies
2. Short of capital, private equity offered the chance to improve shareholder returns by using debt / leverage to pay dividends, but stripping capital investments
3. New Labour, then successive post-2010 Conservative governments failed to head the warnings on private equity, and instead of imposing suitable regulatory controls allowed them to get away with financial engineering
4. By joining the EU Lisbon Treaty in 2005, it was enshrined in law that British companies can take the UK government to court if they interfere in private markets. For this reason, this is why Corbyn was not in favour of the EU, as he would have liked to nationalise some orivate companies. But it prevented any further interference in nauseous private equity behaviours in the utility sector.
5. Lo an behold, private equity companies get asset stripped, cannot invest and are now in trouble
None of the above happened on Thatcher / Major’s watch. But it will continue, because if anyone can be bothered to look, private equity are funding both Labour and Conservatives at the moment. Until these vipers are kicked out, expect more of the same. If you want to see where private ownership isn’t the problem in water sector, look at Scottish Water, Welsh water and there is another one I cannot recall where orivate equity isn’t involved - they are ticking along just fine.
So take the public v private argument away - it is so dogmatic, political, tribal and predictable. There are cases where it works, and where it doesn’t. And there are various private models that work and others that don’t, and those private models vary: not for profit, privately owned, public markets, private-equity LBO model. You will not find those answers in the political Independent, Guardian or Telegraph, who will always vouch for the political extremes.
Try and be more detached and analytical. It will aid better understanding than some of the hot headed, name-calling bullshit we see on here quite often. But I guess that depends on whether the opening post’s question was to stir the pot among political posters, or a genuine attenpt to understand how the industry works and what went wrong.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keyser Soze
Buses were shit prior to privatization.
Absolute bollocks!
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
The problem with most of the privatisations in this country, is there wasn't any thought given to how it would make anything better for the consumer beyond "the free market is best".
A significant proportion of tory MPs back when we were selling everything off, and even more so now don't seem to have any understanding WHY the free market CAN sometimes be better than a state run monopoly, they just have a dogmatic view that it is always better, so they didnt make sure the conditions were in place for it to actually work.
If you are in something approaching a perfect market then free market is almost always best - however with many of the utilities it is very far removed from a perfect market - there is basically no day to day competition so the market forces do not force efficiency.
If I get a train there is only one operator, if I turn on the tap the same water comes out of it and there is the same electricity and gas coming to my house regardless of the supplier.
The competition we have in the electricity market only applies to the part which measures how much energy you use and sends you a bill for it, it is a tiny fraction of the overall picture.
Any such industries should be looked at again and if genuine competition cannot be created then they should be returned to the state.
Water companies have paid themselves artificially high dividends for years by ignoring their legal requirements to our rivers, now they want to charge the taxpayers even more to fix the problem they should have been fixing all along. We should compulsory purchase these water companies back to the state - subtracting any money from the price that they should have invested in infrastructure over the years but instead chose to pay as dividends.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
I don’t see how the free market can run services like trains when their main focus is on dividends for shareholders.
The train services are appalling with ram packed packed carriages and extortionate prices.
How is it feasible that flights are cheaper than the train for some domestic travel?
The busses are the worst I have ever seen.
When I get back to Newport, it is impossible to get a reliable bus service…you seldom see any on the roads.
I have to rely on taxis to get about when I’m home.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wash DC Blue
I don’t see how the free market can run services like trains when their main focus is on dividends for shareholders.
The train services are appalling with ram packed packed carriages and extortionate prices.
How is it feasible that flights are cheaper than the train for some domestic travel?
The busses are the worst I have ever seen.
When I get back to Newport, it is impossible to get a reliable bus service…you seldom see any on the roads.
I have to rely on taxis to get about when I’m home.
Spot on. :thumbup:
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Absolute bollocks!
Indeed , complete bullshit
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keyser Soze
Well I certainly won’t be. I have voted this way in the past…
1992 - Conservative (John Major v Kinnock)
1997 - New Labour (Blair v John Major)
2001 - Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones - best leader ever in my view for PC)
2005 - Conservative (Blair v Michael Howard)
2010 - Conservative (Cameron v Gormless Clown)
2015 - Conservative (Cameron v Ed Miliband)
2017 - Conservative (May v Corbyn)
2019 - Conservative (Johnson v Corbyn)
This time I will certainly not be voting for Conservatives nor Labour, with private equity backing both parties we can continue to look at the ugliest element of capitalism calling the shots on public policy: good companies all over the place being loaded up with debt and put in trouble. After all that is the operating model of private equity and I hate it.
This time I suspect I will be looking at abstention, or Plaid Cymru - with Welsh affairs being my main consideration and reducing the destructive monopoly of low-IQ, low-performance socialist Welsh Labour in Wales.
So you are a tory then
What a surprise
Naff off
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keyser Soze
Well I certainly won’t be. I have voted this way in the past…
1992 - Conservative (John Major v Kinnock)
1997 - New Labour (Blair v John Major)
2001 - Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones - best leader ever in my view for PC)
2005 - Conservative (Blair v Michael Howard)
2010 - Conservative (Cameron v Gormless Clown)
2015 - Conservative (Cameron v Ed Miliband)
2017 - Conservative (May v Corbyn)
2019 - Conservative (Johnson v Corbyn)
This time I will certainly not be voting for Conservatives nor Labour, with private equity backing both parties we can continue to look at the ugliest element of capitalism calling the shots on public policy: good companies all over the place being loaded up with debt and put in trouble. After all that is the operating model of private equity and I hate it.
This time I suspect I will be looking at abstention, or Plaid Cymru - with Welsh affairs being my main consideration and reducing the destructive monopoly of low-IQ, low-performance socialist Welsh Labour in Wales.
So you vote for a capitalist monopoly .....the Tories , who have screwed up the lives of so many over the years
Yet deride the Welsh Labour government which despite its clear failings most of us support
You complete self obsessed idiot
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
So you vote for a capitalist monopoly .....the Tories , who have screwed up the lives of so many over the years
Yet deride the Welsh Labour government which despite its clear failings most of us support
You complete self obsessed idiot
Oh dear. Did someone come off the meds this morning? You seem to be unemotive and out of control more and more as you get older. I think perhaps daddy forgot to explain to you that it is a democracy here sunbeam, not Cuba.As much as it seems you adore the idea if a one party state. You clearly don’t like debate or alternative options.
I’ll give a Vlad and Raul Castro a call - they’d love your support I’m sure
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keyser Soze
Well I certainly won’t be. I have voted this way in the past…
1992 - Conservative (John Major v Kinnock)
1997 - New Labour (Blair v John Major)
2001 - Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones - best leader ever in my view for PC)
2005 - Conservative (Blair v Michael Howard)
2010 - Conservative (Cameron v Gormless Clown)
2015 - Conservative (Cameron v Ed Miliband)
2017 - Conservative (May v Corbyn)
2019 - Conservative (Johnson v Corbyn)
This time I will certainly not be voting for Conservatives nor Labour, with private equity backing both parties we can continue to look at the ugliest element of capitalism calling the shots on public policy: good companies all over the place being loaded up with debt and put in trouble. After all that is the operating model of private equity and I hate it.
This time I suspect I will be looking at abstention, or Plaid Cymru - with Welsh affairs being my main consideration and reducing the destructive monopoly of low-IQ, low-performance socialist Welsh Labour in Wales.
2010 was the year of the Clegg! how could anyone vote for anyone else then!! :hehe:
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keyser Soze
Oh dear. Did someone come off the meds this morning? You seem to be unemotive and out of control more and more as you get older. I think perhaps daddy forgot to explain to you that it is a democracy here sunbeam, not Cuba.As much as it seems you adore the idea if a one party state. You clearly don’t like debate or alternative options.
I’ll give a Vlad and Raul Castro a call - they’d love your support I’m sure
Blah Blah , listen to me I have been to university
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheGoose
2010 was the year of the Clegg! how could anyone vote for anyone else then!! :hehe:
If someone voted for clegg then they were let down but at least it showed they were human
People who voted tory ......line em up , bulldozer
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
If someone voted for clegg then they were let down but at least it showed they were human
People who voted tory ......line em up , bulldozer
tolerant left speaks again
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheGoose
tolerant left speaks again
Absolutely
Get rid of the tory filth
It's Absolutely pointless entering into political debate
I would vote monster raving looney if it kicked your lot out
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheGoose
tolerant left speaks again
Ian Bone had the right idea
https://youtu.be/ZX194qxx1j0
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Absolutely
Get rid of the tory filth
It's Absolutely pointless entering into political debate
I would vote monster raving looney if it kicked your lot out
Conservatives genuinely can't tell why they're not only disliked, they're hated. This feeling will only grow as time goes on and Gen Z/Alpha enter adulthood.
A good video that explains this further here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dma7_qTLjT0
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
So you vote for a capitalist monopoly .....the Tories , who have screwed up the lives of so many over the years
Yet deride the Welsh Labour government which despite its clear failings most of us support
You complete self obsessed idiot
Monopoly? What planet do you live on? A monopoly is permanent overall control. Try looking up the term. You want to discuss politics it seems, but in a pre-pubescent style - an echo chamber where everyone agrees with you. That is, no debate at all.
I fail to see the monopoly in the UK. 13 years of Conservative rule (will be 14 unless it collapses before the election) and 13 years of Labour before it: 1997-2010. I see no monopoly there, sunshine.
Yet Labour have been in power in the Welsh assembly since it was formed. That is a monopoly of some two decades. Granted the Welsh Conservatives are a joke, Lib Dems anonymous and Plaid still suffer from too many academics being involved, a lack of funding, and the anglosphere of Wales and its English immigrants still have a Welsh-phobia about North Wales, their own historic culture and the native language itself. Youngsters are changing though - I think in time Plaid will track the SNP and catch up.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Conservatives genuinely can't tell why they're not only disliked, they're hated. This feeling will only grow as time goes on and Gen Z/Alpha enter adulthood.
A good video that explains this further here -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dma7_qTLjT0
They have been saying this since I was sixteen: the young will vote different. Never works. As soon as all the properties and share portfolios are passed down through Middle class Wales and England they will turn Conservative. As you get older you see the damage Left do. If you had studied economic or political history you would see it anyway.
You have less cash when you’re young. You’ll rebel against the status quo. You think you have all the answers. As you accumulate money and assets, get life experience, have kids and want to provide for them, you become less emotional and more rational. That leads you to be more Conservative. Same in US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and here. It never changes.
The youtube video is one-eyed bile young schmuck. So I wouldn’t get hard in your trousers about that video - it’ll only go floppy again. Come back in 2035 and I’ll show you the same: Labour getting occasional wins but Conservatives will likely dominate.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keyser Soze
They have been saying this since I was sixteen: the young will vote different. Never works. As soon as all the properties and share portfolios are passed down through Middle class Wales and England they will turn Conservative. As you get older you see the damage Left do. If you had studied economic or political history you would see it anyway.
You have less cash when you’re young. You’ll rebel against the status quo. You think you have all the answers. As you accumulate money and assets, get life experience, have kids and want to provide for them, you become less emotional and more rational. That leads you to be more Conservative. Same in US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and here. It never changes.
The youtube video is one-eyed bile young schmuck. So I wouldn’t get hard in your trousers about that video - it’ll only go floppy again. Come back in 2035 and I’ll show you the same: Labour getting occasional wins but Conservatives will likely dominate.
Lol you're hugely out of touch. In all of those countries there are huge swings to the left among those generations that aren't shifting right as they get older, why would we? What has the right done for young people? Are jobs paying well? Nope. Is housing affordable? Nope. Are you taking any meanginful action on climate change? Nope. Are you protecting the NHS from privatisation? Nope.
You're forgetting millenials are entering their 40s now. They've seen the most selfish generation in history cut public services to make themselves and the wealthy richer, we won't forget this.
Gen Z hate tories even more than millenials. You have no answers to anything, you just shake your fists at transgender people and wokeness whatever that is without having the ability to solve any issues.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Even Tories hate Tories.🤣
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keyser Soze
They have been saying this since I was sixteen: the young will vote different. Never works. As soon as all the properties and share portfolios are passed down through Middle class Wales and England they will turn Conservative. As you get older you see the damage Left do. If you had studied economic or political history you would see it anyway.
You have less cash when you’re young. You’ll rebel against the status quo. You think you have all the answers. As you accumulate money and assets, get life experience, have kids and want to provide for them, you become less emotional and more rational. That leads you to be more Conservative. Same in US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and here. It never changes.
The youtube video is one-eyed bile young schmuck. So I wouldn’t get hard in your trousers about that video - it’ll only go floppy again. Come back in 2035 and I’ll show you the same: Labour getting occasional wins but Conservatives will likely dominate.
That is a very naive way to look at things. There is a generation that are seeing wealth being accumulated but don't have the same chances as those that came before them. Things obviously can change and the UK is in a perilous position economically, as is the average person. Empires fall, theories like this that seemed like they would last forever can be gone in a generation.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keyser Soze
Monopoly? What planet do you live on? A monopoly is permanent overall control. Try looking up the term. You want to discuss politics it seems, but in a pre-pubescent style - an echo chamber where everyone agrees with you. That is, no debate at all.
I fail to see the monopoly in the UK. 13 years of Conservative rule (will be 14 unless it collapses before the election) and 13 years of Labour before it: 1997-2010. I see no monopoly there, sunshine.
Yet Labour have been in power in the Welsh assembly since it was formed. That is a monopoly of some two decades. Granted the Welsh Conservatives are a joke, Lib Dems anonymous and Plaid still suffer from too many academics being involved, a lack of funding, and the anglosphere of Wales and its English immigrants still have a Welsh-phobia about North Wales, their own historic culture and the native language itself. Youngsters are changing though - I think in time Plaid will track the SNP and catch up.
You utter bore
I don't care what you say you did or what you have studied or the realms of Google research you lay on
You are a tory
Persona non grata
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Lol you're hugely out of touch. In all of those countries there are huge swings to the left among those generations that aren't shifting right as they get older, why would we? What has the right done for young people? Are jobs paying well? Nope. Is housing affordable? Nope. Are you taking any meanginful action on climate change? Nope. Are you protecting the NHS from privatisation? Nope.
You're forgetting millenials are entering their 40s now. They've seen the most selfish generation in history cut public services to make themselves and the wealthy richer, we won't forget this.
Gen Z hate tories even more than millenials. You have no answers to anything, you just shake your fists at transgender people and wokeness whatever that is without having the ability to solve any issues.
Woke this Woke that
People who go on about Woke are odd
And a lot of them are racist and homophobic
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Rubbish before and rubbish afterwards
Should follow the Welsh water model instead
Not for profit core with some services contracted out
Welsh Water 'for Wales not for profit'. That's why the beaches and rivers of Wales are full of shit. They're as bad as them all..
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Lol you're hugely out of touch. In all of those countries there are huge swings to the left among those generations that aren't shifting right as they get older, why would we? What has the right done for young people? Are jobs paying well? Nope. Is housing affordable? Nope. Are you taking any meanginful action on climate change? Nope. Are you protecting the NHS from privatisation? Nope.
You're forgetting millenials are entering their 40s now. They've seen the most selfish generation in history cut public services to make themselves and the wealthy richer, we won't forget this.
Gen Z hate tories even more than millenials. You have no answers to anything, you just shake your fists at transgender people and wokeness whatever that is without having the ability to solve any issues.
As you get older you see the damage the left can do ?
You sanctimonious clown
I mean 60 percent of the country doesn't vote for the tory party therefore they can see what damage the right can do
There is a broad anti tory movement in this country who might be left , liberal, green or independent
It's not just lefties who think the Tories are not welcome
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
That is a very naive way to look at things. There is a generation that are seeing wealth being accumulated but don't have the same chances as those that came before them. Things obviously can change and the UK is in a perilous position economically, as is the average person. Empires fall, theories like this that seemed like they would last forever can be gone in a generation.
"Empires fall" is wishful thinking. Where do you young donuts think the wealth will go? Two thirds of private houses in the UK are now mortgage-free, or will be in five years time. This year the amount of ISA millionaires have tripled. The elderly don't spend much - a huge wall of money will be passed down in the next ten years. More private wealth than seen in the last seventy years. The youtube video totally missed that - presumably because the bone-header editor had a very weird assumption that all this "elderly wealth" would go the government or seemingly disappear into thin air.
What has happened is a temporary abberation where because the elderly are healthier than ever before, they are living longer. But when a huge amount pass away in the next decade there is a wall of inherited wealth via share portfolios, life insurance policies and private property that is coming to a younger generation near you.
And if there is one thing we know, that when a person with no money, or little money, receive a windfall, they will not be calling for higher taxes anymore. A few may. But most won't. A bit like inheritance battles between siblings, when big money appears, most humans change their ideas and behaviours. Suddenly they won't be calling for 40% inheritance taxes and 40% capital gains taxes like a squealing Corbyn anymore. The green-eyed envy, spite and whinging will dissipate and all these Facebook / Instagram charlies will be sumping the bottles of Champagne on a yacht in the Carrribean, thanking their lucky stars that the "miserable, greedy old boomer bat called Aunt Maud" left them a will. Suddenly they will have money, assets and tax free income in their ISAs, SIPPs and share portfolios coming in. They'll be turning blue alright.
And when these whinging Millennials inherit, Gen Z will be hot on their tails for their payday too. This mob will be like the ones my age who "Hated Thatcher and the rich, money-obsessed, vulgar Tories" and voted New Labour. But once they inherited money, or had a load free / cheap debt in the early 2000s, or made money out of the tech boom, what did these Champagne Socialists do? Get on the buy-to-let train that the 1980s Thatcher yuppies did. Yep, you know the type. Out on yachts, big tech share portfolios, three holidays a year in villas on the med, champagne in ice buckets, pictures all over social media how they were living the high life. Aye, great socialists they remained - hypocrites, left right and centre.
The laughable bonehead pleb who compiled that youtube video has forgotten how predictable human behaviour is when money is on the table, and how values, principles and voting patterns will turn on a sixpence. And many idiot mugs have fallen for it, bless them. Not surprising - you just can't educate pork.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
As you get older you see the damage the left can do ?
You sanctimonious clown
I mean 60 percent of the country doesn't vote for the tory party therefore they can see what damage the right can do
There is a broad anti tory movement in this country who might be left , liberal, green or independent
It's not just lefties who think the Tories are not welcome
Think you quoted the wrong person.
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Re: Today's topic - privatising public transport and our utilities have benefitted the general public
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Conservatives genuinely can't tell why they're not only disliked, they're hated. This feeling will only grow as time goes on and Gen Z/Alpha enter adulthood.
A good video that explains this further here -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dma7_qTLjT0
I know loads of young people, work with dozens of them. None of them are remotely as hate filled, narrow minded or bigoted as you, even allowing for the anonymity that allows trolling all the easier.
You and Sludge (by far the most abusive of the left-sided people on here) never back up your extreme conclusions with evidence. It's just endless baffling abuse.
And you live in the poorest part of the UK with health and education outcomes nearly universally worse than over the border. Honestly, you really are the kind of people that hold Wales back tbh