Welsh Premier

Welsh Premier kicks off this weekend and I heard on Elis James' podcast that they have a fully ticketed segregated match, Colwyn Bay return for their first game in the prem against Caernarfon.

It's a sell out of 2000+ for Colwyn Bay who are opening a new stand ready for the first game.

Not many good news snippets in Welsh domestic football but that is an excellent crowd for that level and can imagine it'll be a good atmosphere with fans segregated!

I also noticed there are 5 south Wales teams in the premier now, has there ever been that many before? Quite an even spread across south, mid and the north.

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Originally Posted by Wozza16

I also noticed there are 5 south Wales teams in the premier now, has there ever been that many before? Quite an even spread across south, mid and the north.

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Yes. Around the early 2010s we had 5 sides from South Wales with Port Talbot being the furthest east. No representatives from Cardiff or the Valleys. In 2009 the league shrank to 12 teams from 18. The number of clubs from the south remained the same at 5. There were 9 teams from the south in the first League of Wales.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Yes. Around the early 2010s we had 5 sides from South Wales with Port Talbot being the furthest east. No representatives from Cardiff or the Valleys. In 2009 the league shrank to 12 teams from 18. The number of clubs from the south remained the same at 5. There were 9 teams from the south in the first League of Wales.

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Llantwit should have been there last season but were denied promotion as the League deemed that the ground was not up to standard.

10 odd years ago we were playing on the rugby club's spare pitch and had to use the bowls club changing rooms.
We now have a tidy ground with two stands and a proper club house. Promises were made to upgrade but to no avail.
Can I now blame the gods for denying the Major their day in the sun.
That said we are in Europe this year and drawn in a group with Enfield and a team from Copenhagen.

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Originally Posted by Majorblue

Llantwit should have been there last season but were denied promotion as the League deemed that the ground was not up to standard.

10 odd years ago we were playing on the rugby club's spare pitch and had to use the bowls club changing rooms.
We now have a tidy ground with two stands and a proper club house. Promises were made to upgrade but to no avail.
Can I now blame the gods for denying the Major their day in the sun.
That said we are in Europe this year and drawn in a group with Enfield and a team from Copenhagen.

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Enfield as in the club who knocked City out of the cup in the 90s?

Seen Llantwit play a number of times the season they won the league. I like the Cymru South some entertaining grounds to visit.

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Originally Posted by Wozza16

Welsh Premier kicks off this weekend and I heard on Elis James' podcast that they have a fully ticketed segregated match, Colwyn Bay return for their first game in the prem against Caernarfon.

It's a sell out of 2000+ for Colwyn Bay who are opening a new stand ready for the first game.

Not many good news snippets in Welsh domestic football but that is an excellent crowd for that level and can imagine it'll be a good atmosphere with fans segregated!

I also noticed there are 5 south Wales teams in the premier now, has there ever been that many before? Quite an even spread across south, mid and the north.

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Great to hear it's sold out. That's really positive.

I used to be a big fan of the Welsh Prem, or more specifically the 'project' to make it a viable and successful league. I have lost a lot of interest. Largely because a very good website on it closed, but also because TNS became too dominant and there remained no real progress in Europe. I also find watching Cardiff Met pretty unsatisfying, mainly due to the plastic pitch..it just feels like you are watching some mates play and has none of that appeal that an equivalent 'non league' game in England has.

It does seem to be on the up though, partly cos of that Conference League which gives more rewards. I also think the success of the national team has reinvigorated fanbases, particularly in North Wales. Caernarfon Town used to get about 150 people watching. Now they get great crowds and a pretty passionate following.

From memory it is a reformed version of that club.
I believe their owner sold the ground and effectively closed the original club down.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Great to hear it's sold out. That's really positive.

I used to be a big fan of the Welsh Prem, or more specifically the 'project' to make it a viable and successful league. I have lost a lot of interest. Largely because a very good website on it closed, but also because TNS became too dominant and there remained no real progress in Europe. I also find watching Cardiff Met pretty unsatisfying, mainly due to the plastic pitch..it just feels like you are watching some mates play and has none of that appeal that an equivalent 'non league' game in England has.

It does seem to be on the up though, partly cos of that Conference League which gives more rewards. I also think the success of the national team has reinvigorated fanbases, particularly in North Wales. Caernarfon Town used to get about 150 people watching. Now they get great crowds and a pretty passionate following.

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Colwyn Bay moving over is really positive as well, their fans seem to have really taken to the change

There seems to be a group of clubs on the up which can challenge TNS' dominance in Colwyn Bay, Penybont and Haverfordwest, Connah's Quay as well of course won it not too long ago and it's nice to see Barry return. There's clubs in the lower levels taking positive steps as well, Caerau Ely got a big crowd for their last game of the season and are now in the Cymru South for instance

A problem for me with the Premier are the sides who just seem to hang around and not do much, for instance Aberystwyth, as well as the made up clubs without any fanbase (TNS, Cardiff Met, Airbus). Fortunately Airbus are gone now and hopefully a proper Cardiff side can replace Cardiff Met in the coming years

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Originally Posted by Majorblue

Llantwit should have been there last season but were denied promotion as the League deemed that the ground was not up to standard.

10 odd years ago we were playing on the rugby club's spare pitch and had to use the bowls club changing rooms.
We now have a tidy ground with two stands and a proper club house. Promises were made to upgrade but to no avail.
Can I now blame the gods for denying the Major their day in the sun.
That said we are in Europe this year and drawn in a group with Enfield and a team from Copenhagen.

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What sort of crowds are expected at those games MB - home and away?

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Originally Posted by City123

Colwyn Bay moving over is really positive as well, their fans seem to have really taken to the change

There seems to be a group of clubs on the up which can challenge TNS' dominance in Colwyn Bay, Penybont and Haverfordwest, Connah's Quay as well of course won it not too long ago and it's nice to see Barry return. There's clubs in the lower levels taking positive steps as well, Caerau Ely got a big crowd for their last game of the season and are now in the Cymru South for instance

A problem for me with the Premier are the sides who just seem to hang around and not do much, for instance Aberystwyth, as well as the made up clubs without any fanbase (TNS, Cardiff Met, Airbus). Fortunately Airbus are gone now and hopefully a proper Cardiff side can replace Cardiff Met in the coming years

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Yeah I agree. Would love to see a more community based Cardiff team get up, or perhaps a looser link with the university and for them to play elsewhere.

The 'made-up' clubs are a disaster for the Welsh Prem. TNS' domination stifles interest in the league, which really needs the bigger clubs such as Bangor; Rhyl and Caernarfon to thrive. I may be wrong but I dont see any clubs in South Wales matching the support of the bigger north wales clubs- there is an affinity to local football in those towns which I don't think you get in S. Wales

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Originally Posted by D. Advocaat

The 'made-up' clubs are a disaster for the Welsh Prem. TNS' domination stifles interest in the league, which really needs the bigger clubs such as Bangor; Rhyl and Caernarfon to thrive. I may be wrong but I dont see any clubs in South Wales matching the support of the bigger north wales clubs- there is an affinity to local football in those towns which I don't think you get in S. Wales

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It's a moot point but I'd like to see Merthyr Town in the Welsh league.

Not going to happen at the moment unfortunately, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

It's a moot point but I'd like to see Merthyr Town in the Welsh league.

Not going to happen at the moment unfortunately, in my opinion.

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Same here, though I guess games against Ponty, Penybont and Cardiff Met are less enticing to them than Hayes, Hendon and Tiverton.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

It's a moot point but I'd like to see Merthyr Town in the Welsh league.

Not going to happen at the moment unfortunately, in my opinion.

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It's a huge decision for them. I remember speaking to a Merthyr fan in Brussels last September and he was adamant he wanted to stay in the English league but suggested support is growing for the WPL.

I guess the longer they plod on in non-league the more appealing the WPL seems.

They would start in the second tier I believe but within a year would very likely be one of the top clubs and the reality of European games, some silverware etc would seem quite likely.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's a huge decision for them. I remember speaking to a Merthyr fan in Brussels last September and he was adamant he wanted to stay in the English league but suggested support is growing for the WPL.

I guess the longer they plod on in non-league the more appealing the WPL seems.

They would start in the second tier I believe but within a year would very likely be one of the top clubs and the reality of European games, some silverware etc would seem quite likely.

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Colwyn Bay said the same

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Originally Posted by D. Advocaat

The 'made-up' clubs are a disaster for the Welsh Prem. TNS' domination stifles interest in the league, which really needs the bigger clubs such as Bangor; Rhyl and Caernarfon to thrive. I may be wrong but I dont see any clubs in South Wales matching the support of the bigger north wales clubs- there is an affinity to local football in those towns which I don't think you get in S. Wales

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Like Pontypridd Utd.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Same here, though I guess games against Ponty, Penybont and Cardiff Met are less enticing to them than Hayes, Hendon and Tiverton.

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Sporting wise where is the ambition in staying in the English league system? The one FA Cup run in 20 odd years they enjoyed last season?

They're a trust Football Club and it's their supporters decision, as it should be. Having gone to school with some of their loyal supporters, I'm going to have to say they're generally thick as fuuck. Not all, just the majority.

I actually think they'd generate more interest and bigger crowds if they played in the Welsh league. Their friendly with Barry attracted 700 which is bigger bigger than their average attendance for league matches last season.

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Originally Posted by Swiss Peter

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What sort of crowds are expected at those games MB - home and away?

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Genuinely no idea.

For Cymru South the average gate is around 150 - 200 rising to 500 if Barry or Llanelli were the opponents.
I guess that kind of figure for the two home games .

There was talk of a plane being chartered for Copenhagen for both players and supporters so maybe a hundred or so in total.

Although Enfield is far easier to get too I would guess the delights of an industrial estate in Middlesex has not quite got the pull of Carlsberg central, so maybe a coach load.

Out of interest, what would it take financially to compete at the top of the Cymru Prem?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Out of interest, what would it take financially to compete at the top of the Cymru Prem?

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Fuuck if I know:biggrin:

Here you are...

https://find-and-update.company-info...filing-history

...work that out and let me know.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Out of interest, what would it take financially to compete at the top of the Cymru Prem?

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Not sure but I know qualifying for Europe makes a huge difference

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Originally Posted by Majorblue

That said we are in Europe this year and drawn in a group with Enfield and a team from Copenhagen.

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Just been reading up on the Fenix Trophy, it's the third season of the official UEFA tournament but the first with a Welsh club involved.

Watched Bridgend Town (now Penybont) in a competition with Italian clubs in the early 80's after they'd won the Southern League title.

I can't imagine it would cost a great deal to compete at the top end as long as you're getting a european spot then you're getting at least in the region of £250,000 once a year, especially if the club has a "big" Welsh prem fan base of 1000+ a game during the league season.

A consortium of 4-5 wealthy business people or ex players could easily sustain a fairly big club, just imagine a group of the Welsh players did similar as they've done with Merthyr.

I think some of the top 4-6 clubs need to bite the bullet and turn FT. I wonder how close the clubs are to being able to doing that, surely a couple aren't far off cashflow wise? A 20 man squad is around £500,000 per year if on £2k a month. If clubs could just make the 3rd round of qualifying fairly consistently they would be getting that much from Europe alone which would surely be easier if FT and not PT.

Qualifying for the UEFA conference league group stage which the league winner (TNS) should be close to doing with the fall back of starting in the Champions League get €3,000,000!

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Originally Posted by alan_corneli

Just been reading up on the Fenix Trophy, it's the third season of the official UEFA tournament but the first with a Welsh club involved.

Watched Bridgend Town (now Penybont) in a competition with Italian clubs in the early 80's after they'd won the Southern League title.

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Merthyr Town played Pontedera in the same Anglo Italian Cup.

They lost 6-1.

Coach for Pontedera was a certain Marcello Lippi.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Merthyr Town played Pontedera in the same Anglo Italian Cup.

They lost 6-1.

Coach for Pontedera was a certain Marcello Lippi.

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I remember even bigger nights at Merthyr - beating Atalanta 2-1.

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Originally Posted by Wozza16

I can't imagine it would cost a great deal to compete at the top end as long as you're getting a european spot then you're getting at least in the region of £250,000 once a year, especially if the club has a "big" Welsh prem fan base of 1000+ a game during the league season.

A consortium of 4-5 wealthy business people or ex players could easily sustain a fairly big club, just imagine a group of the Welsh players did similar as they've done with Merthyr.

I think some of the top 4-6 clubs need to bite the bullet and turn FT. I wonder how close the clubs are to being able to doing that, surely a couple aren't far off cashflow wise? A 20 man squad is around £500,000 per year if on £2k a month. If clubs could just make the 3rd round of qualifying fairly consistently they would be getting that much from Europe alone which would surely be easier if FT and not PT.

Qualifying for the UEFA conference league group stage which the league winner (TNS) should be close to doing with the fall back of starting in the Champions League get €3,000,000!

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Connah's Quay went full time and couldn't sustain it, had to go back to part time

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Originally Posted by alan_corneli

I remember even bigger nights at Merthyr - beating Atalanta 2-1.

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I attended that game. Great night for the club and town in general.

I spent the first 15 minutes staring at the Atalanta Ultras mind.

Glenn Stromberg starring for Atalanta.

I think the Cymru Premier should change to a summer season. Most of the Welsh clubs seem to play teams in qualifying who are part way through their season, but have hardly played any meaningful friendlies in preparation. I know this has been suggested previously but I think it's the only way forward if Welsh sides are going to get further in European competitions. Ireland switched some years ago and Shamrock Rovers qualified for the group stages of the Europa Conference League last season. Now it looks like a team from the Faroe Islands with get to the group stages this season

I am a director at Aberystwyth Town FC so know a lot about the WPL and wage bills.
I know that two clubs that finished in the bottom half of the league last season pay between £8000-£10000 per week on wages for players so are looking around £475000 per season plus then you have managers/coaches wages to pay.
I’m big mates with TNS chairman Mike H and due to their success and qualifying for Europe every year they are nearly self funding these days due to the money gained from playing in Champ lge qualification rounds.
I believe Merthyr would benefit from playing in WPL and certainly make more money if they finish in the top 3.