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Trust meeting with Dalman
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Meeting with Mehmet Dalman 12 August 2023
Dear Member,*
As I promised, here is a note of the meeting that took place prior to the QPR game between Mehmet Dalman and representatives of Fan groups*
Attending from the club were Mehmet Dalman (Chair), Ken Choo (Chief Executive), Phillip Jenkins (Finance Director), Wayne Nash (Director of Operations), Amy James (Head of Fan Experience), Mark Denham ( Head of Communications), Paul Corkrey (Supporters Liaison Officer).**
Members of the Supporters Trust, Supporters Club, Disabled Supporters Group and Travel Group were also present.*
Mehmet Dalman welcomed everyone to the meeting and stated his intention to hold**more informal meetings to improve links**with fans over and above the formal meetings that already take place.*
A broad range of issues were discussed**in a very informal and positive atmosphere. It was agreed by all that the season was commencing in a very positive light and everyone was looking forward to the new league campaign.*
The issue of new signings was raised. MD was hoping that 2 further signings, one permanent one loan, would be made before the window closes.**There would also be further players being loaned out. He also paid tribute to the vision and efforts of Steve Borley in the recruitment of Aaron Ramsey.*
MD stated that the litigation with Nantes and the Club's Insurers is continuing.*
The question was raised concerning the projected financial position for the current season. Phillip Jenkins stated that the expectation was that the club would trade within the permitted limits of Profit and Sustainability. He reminded the meeting that the payment in full of the Emiliano Sala transfer was covered by the provision made in the balance sheet in the 2018/19 accounts. He also mentioned that the financial position of the club would be under close scrutiny by the EFL to ensure our compliance.*
Phillip Jenkins stated that current season ticket sales were 14,200, a position that the club was very pleased with given the poor season we had last year.*
Wayne Nash outlined the club's approach to a Fan Advisory Board which is one of the recommendations of the Fans Led Review of Football. He referred to consultations he had had with Supporters Groups and stated that he envisaged a Fan Advisory Board meeting 4 times per year. There will need to be further discussions to move this issue forward. Wayne also stated that there would be**a twice yearly Fans Parliament open to a wider group of fans as well as**the usual Supporter Liaison meetings.*
Ken Choo emphasised the club's continuing commitment to producing a programme. He mentioned that they would be looking to utilise more recycled paper in its production which is in line with the Club's pursuance of the EFL Green Clubs Scheme.*
*
Keith Morgan*
Chair*
*
Cardiff City FC Supporters Trust
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Former Labour leader
View Website Click here to unsubscribe *
Meeting with Mehmet Dalman 12 August 2023
Dear Member,*
As I promised, here is a note of the meeting that took place prior to the QPR game between Mehmet Dalman and representatives of Fan groups*
Attending from the club were Mehmet Dalman (Chair), Ken Choo (Chief Executive), Phillip Jenkins (Finance Director), Wayne Nash (Director of Operations), Amy James (Head of Fan Experience), Mark Denham ( Head of Communications), Paul Corkrey (Supporters Liaison Officer).**
Members of the Supporters Trust, Supporters Club, Disabled Supporters Group and Travel Group were also present.*
Mehmet Dalman welcomed everyone to the meeting and stated his intention to hold**more informal meetings to improve links**with fans over and above the formal meetings that already take place.*
A broad range of issues were discussed**in a very informal and positive atmosphere. It was agreed by all that the season was commencing in a very positive light and everyone was looking forward to the new league campaign.*
The issue of new signings was raised. MD was hoping that 2 further signings, one permanent one loan, would be made before the window closes.**There would also be further players being loaned out. He also paid tribute to the vision and efforts of Steve Borley in the recruitment of Aaron Ramsey.*
MD stated that the litigation with Nantes and the Club's Insurers is continuing.*
The question was raised concerning the projected financial position for the current season. Phillip Jenkins stated that the expectation was that the club would trade within the permitted limits of Profit and Sustainability. He reminded the meeting that the payment in full of the Emiliano Sala transfer was covered by the provision made in the balance sheet in the 2018/19 accounts. He also mentioned that the financial position of the club would be under close scrutiny by the EFL to ensure our compliance.*
Phillip Jenkins stated that current season ticket sales were 14,200, a position that the club was very pleased with given the poor season we had last year.*
Wayne Nash outlined the club's approach to a Fan Advisory Board which is one of the recommendations of the Fans Led Review of Football. He referred to consultations he had had with Supporters Groups and stated that he envisaged a Fan Advisory Board meeting 4 times per year. There will need to be further discussions to move this issue forward. Wayne also stated that there would be**a twice yearly Fans Parliament open to a wider group of fans as well as**the usual Supporter Liaison meetings.*
Ken Choo emphasised the club's continuing commitment to producing a programme. He mentioned that they would be looking to utilise more recycled paper in its production which is in line with the Club's pursuance of the EFL Green Clubs Scheme.*
*
Keith Morgan*
Chair*
*
Cardiff City FC Supporters Trust
Re the finances 2 of the teams that went down last season had points deductions. Not getting any points deducted is absolutely crucial if we are to escape relegation this season. I am sure others will face points deductions as seems to be a regular occurence now.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Manager says three new players this week
Does he know something Dalman doesn’t or vice versa
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
"Vincent Tan has just paid £18million out of his own pocket to settle the Emiliano Sala transfer "
?? I thought this was accounted for in City's own finances.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maurice Swan
"Vincent Tan has just paid £18million out of his own pocket to settle the Emiliano Sala transfer "
?? I thought this was accounted for in City's own finances.
They made an accrual for the £18m in the financial statements.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maurice Swan
"Vincent Tan has just paid £18million out of his own pocket to settle the Emiliano Sala transfer "
?? I thought this was accounted for in City's own finances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
They made an accrual for the £18m in the financial statements.
But there was no bag of money labelled 'For Nantes' sitting in the Cardiff City FC safe.
Making provision in the accounts 4 years ago ensured that there would be no breach of FFP rules. Tan still had to find the money when it was time (or past time!) to pay up.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
But there was no bag of money labelled 'For Nantes' sitting in the Cardiff City FC safe.
Making provision in the accounts 4 years ago ensured that there would be no breach of FFP rules. Tan still had to find the money when it was time (or past time!) to pay up.
Indeed. It might have been wise to pay the fee when it was actually due as opposed to using the money to pay an endless stream of lawyers and giving Warnock large chunks of it to spunk away on expensive rubbish, but what’s done is done.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Indeed. It might have been wise to pay the fee when it was actually due as opposed to using the money to pay an endless stream of lawyers and giving Warnock large chunks of it to spunk away on expensive rubbish, but what’s done is done.
The next series of the Cardiff City Docusoap will be about lawyers seeking their payment, be another three or so years of intrigue and fiasco:sherlock:
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
The next series of the Cardiff City Docusoap will be about lawyers seeking their payment, be another three or so years of intrigue and fiasco:sherlock:
Maybe they were no win no fee?
For the club I hope so as we won't have to pay a penny then. We've lost every one haven't we?
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Father Dougal
Maybe they were no win no fee?
For the club I hope so as we won't have to pay a penny then. We've lost every one haven't we?
:hehe:Cardiff City Lawyers better start wishing lawyers of other Championship clubs get a few points deductions.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Father Dougal
Maybe they were no win no fee?
For the club I hope so as we won't have to pay a penny then. We've lost every one haven't we?
We won the cases against Hammam and Isaacs.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Dalman seems a fairly smooth operator
He's a bit scatterbox but I can think of far worse owners than him in football
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
They made an accrual for the £18m in the financial statements.
Wasn’t it £15 million? Thought we’d paid £6 million already…..
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Dalman seems a fairly smooth operator
He's a bit scatterbox but I can think of far worse owners than him in football
Indeed, Vincent Tan springs to mind.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Dalman seems a fairly smooth operator
He's a bit scatterbox but I can think of far worse owners than him in football
At least Dalman is prepared to reach out to the fanbase. He calls meetings with fans reps and is instituting the Fans Parliament for the wider fanbase. Tan, to my knowledge, has visited the UK twice recently-in October 2022 when he met Rob Phillips and Abbo only in Cardiff and more recently he was part of the Malaysian delegation to the Queens funeral, he didn’t meet fans then either.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Enoch Mort
At least Dalman is prepared to reach out to the fanbase. He calls meetings with fans reps and is instituting the Fans Parliament for the wider fanbase. Tan, to my knowledge, has visited the UK twice recently-in October 2022 when he met Rob Phillips and Abbo only in Cardiff and more recently he was part of the Malaysian delegation to the Queens funeral, he didn’t meet fans then either.
it would be interesting to know just exactly what Tan feels (if anything) towards the club? Is owning a football club like Bling for the super rich? A fashion item that you lose interest in? clearly he won't starve if we play rubbish football so just what is his motivation for continued ownership?
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taffy Blue in Berkshire
it would be interesting to know just exactly what Tan feels (if anything) towards the club? Is owning a football club like Bling for the super rich? A fashion item that you lose interest in? clearly he won't starve if we play rubbish football so just what is his motivation for continued ownership?
Following our relegation from the Premier League and the worldwide exposure that went along with it, I have always been totally baffled as to what is still in it for Tan. The hope that the streets of Kuala Lumpur would be thronged with local football fans wearing red shirts adorned with the fag packet Cardiff City dragon and raising him aloft has long gone.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Former Labour leader
View Website Click here to unsubscribe *
Meeting with Mehmet Dalman 12 August 2023
Dear Member,*
As I promised, here is a note of the meeting that took place prior to the QPR game between Mehmet Dalman and representatives of Fan groups*
Attending from the club were Mehmet Dalman (Chair), Ken Choo (Chief Executive), Phillip Jenkins (Finance Director), Wayne Nash (Director of Operations), Amy James (Head of Fan Experience), Mark Denham ( Head of Communications), Paul Corkrey (Supporters Liaison Officer).**
Members of the Supporters Trust, Supporters Club, Disabled Supporters Group and Travel Group were also present.*
Mehmet Dalman welcomed everyone to the meeting and stated his intention to hold**more informal meetings to improve links**with fans over and above the formal meetings that already take place.*
A broad range of issues were discussed**in a very informal and positive atmosphere. It was agreed by all that the season was commencing in a very positive light and everyone was looking forward to the new league campaign.*
The issue of new signings was raised. MD was hoping that 2 further signings, one permanent one loan, would be made before the window closes.**There would also be further players being loaned out. He also paid tribute to the vision and efforts of Steve Borley in the recruitment of Aaron Ramsey.*
MD stated that the litigation with Nantes and the Club's Insurers is continuing.*
The question was raised concerning the projected financial position for the current season. Phillip Jenkins stated that the expectation was that the club would trade within the permitted limits of Profit and Sustainability. He reminded the meeting that the payment in full of the Emiliano Sala transfer was covered by the provision made in the balance sheet in the 2018/19 accounts. He also mentioned that the financial position of the club would be under close scrutiny by the EFL to ensure our compliance.*
Phillip Jenkins stated that current season ticket sales were 14,200, a position that the club was very pleased with given the poor season we had last year.*
Wayne Nash outlined the club's approach to a Fan Advisory Board which is one of the recommendations of the Fans Led Review of Football. He referred to consultations he had had with Supporters Groups and stated that he envisaged a Fan Advisory Board meeting 4 times per year. There will need to be further discussions to move this issue forward. Wayne also stated that there would be**a twice yearly Fans Parliament open to a wider group of fans as well as**the usual Supporter Liaison meetings.*
Ken Choo emphasised the club's continuing commitment to producing a programme. He mentioned that they would be looking to utilise more recycled paper in its production which is in line with the Club's pursuance of the EFL Green Clubs Scheme.*
*
Keith Morgan*
Chair*
*
Cardiff City FC Supporters Trust
Just to stress that this was a meeting attended by other supporter groups as well as the Trust. We try and get our reports out to our members as soon as practicable but I have no idea if or when others present report back to the fans they represent.
Keith
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Following our relegation from the Premier League and the worldwide exposure that went along with it, I have always been totally baffled as to what is still in it for Tan. The hope that the streets of Kuala Lumpur would be thronged with local football fans wearing red shirts adorned with the fag packet Cardiff City dragon and raising him aloft has long gone.
so let's not be surprised when he bins his toys and starts playing with something else.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taffy Blue in Berkshire
it would be interesting to know just exactly what Tan feels (if anything) towards the club? Is owning a football club like Bling for the super rich? A fashion item that you lose interest in? clearly he won't starve if we play rubbish football so just what is his motivation for continued ownership?
It’s probably become a nightmare of his own making. His failure to employ anyone with football expertise at board level and his listening to the siren voice of Warnock instead of trusting his Transfer Committee over the Sala Transfer have probably been the 2 biggest mistakes in his ownership. We have to be grateful to Tan that he is still footing the bill however, I think that, if we went into administration that would be a huge loss of face for him so I don’t think he would let that happen. It is interesting that Dalman is publicly speculating about the value of the club and how it would increase if we were top 10. Might that be the time when Tan cuts his losses and gets the best deal he can ? He certainly won’t be getting all of his money back.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Enoch Mort
It’s probably become a nightmare of his own making. His failure to employ anyone with football expertise at board level and his listening to the siren voice of Warnock instead of trusting his Transfer Committee over the Sala Transfer have probably been the 2 biggest mistakes in his ownership. We have to be grateful to Tan that he is still footing the bill however, I think that, if we went into administration that would be a huge loss of face for him so I don’t think he would let that happen. It is interesting that Dalman is publicly speculating about the value of the club and how it would increase if we were top 10. Might that be the time when Tan cuts his losses and gets the best deal he can ? He certainly won’t be getting all of his money back.
To be fair to Tan , I’d say 90% of football club owners outside of the Premiership make huge financial losses ( and in the Premier League about 70% ) , so I think to simply think Tan is the only financial backer in this position is wide of the mark.
The only owner who appears to have made a big profit is Sam Hammam which speaks volumes, although there are probably a few others as well.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
To be fair to Tan , I’d say 90% of football club owners outside of the Premiership make huge financial losses ( and in the Premier League about 70% ) , so I think to simply think Tan is the only financial backer in this position is wide of the mark.
The only owner who appears to have made a big profit is Sam Hammam which speaks volumes, although there are probably a few others as well.
I agree with what you say about owners making losses outside the PL. I don’t think he is unique in this and did not say so.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
The only owner who appears to have made a big profit is Sam Hammam which speaks volumes, although there are probably a few others as well.
What profit did he make and how?
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
What profit did he make and how?
I guess he made a profit from Wimbledon by selling their ground to build a Safeway
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I guess he made a profit from Wimbledon by selling their ground to build a Safeway
Yes that’s what I was referring to , Wimbledon were left homeless with the deal he negotiated with Merton Borough.
I’m not sure if he made much of a profit with the sale of Cardiff City, but the fact that he sold it for 8 times as much sounds like good business.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
Yes that’s what I was referring to , Wimbledon were left homeless with the deal he negotiated with Merton Borough.
I’m not sure if he made much of a profit with the sale of Cardiff City, but the fact that he sold it for 8 times as much sounds like good business.
In fact Wimbledon were rendered homeless as a result of the Taylor Report and moved to a ground share with Crystal Palace in 1991. The Plough Lane stadium wasn't sold until 1998.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I guess he made a profit from Wimbledon by selling their ground to build a Safeway
Wasn't a very safeway for Wimbledon to go!
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JumpersforGoalposts
In fact Wimbledon were rendered homeless as a result of the Taylor Report and moved to a ground share with Crystal Palace in 1991. The Plough Lane stadium wasn't sold until 1998.
Ok well I’ll concede the the nuances of the sale, but didn’t he make £10m on the sale of the land and a further £30m on the sale of the club.
Wimbledon supporters I’ve spoken to in the past do not hold him in high regard.
Hammam said he would actively pursue building a new stadium within the confines of the London borough of Merton. Cynics, though, pointed out that he might have been more motivated by the profit he trousered when he sold the Plough Lane site to Safeway for a supermarket development.
https://www.theguardian.com/football...incrisis.sport
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
Ok well I’ll concede the the nuances of the sale, but didn’t he make £10m on the sale of the land and a further £30m on the sale of the club.
Wimbledon supporters I’ve spoken to in the past do not hold him in high regard.
Given that he bought the stadium in 1984 and sold it in 1998 I would imagine given its location he would have made a profit.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JumpersforGoalposts
Given that he bought the stadium in 1984 and sold it in 1998 I would imagine given its location he would have made a profit.
I suppose it’s the same here, the only fans who still defend him are the ones who he looked after and made feel special lol.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
Yes that’s what I was referring to , Wimbledon were left homeless with the deal he negotiated with Merton Borough.
I’m not sure if he made much of a profit with the sale of Cardiff City, but the fact that he sold it for 8 times as much sounds like good business.
Sold what for eight times as much? Cardiff City?
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Sold what for eight times as much? Cardiff City?
Bought for £3m “sold”for £24m
Notwithstanding additional fees for other materials
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
Bought for £3m “sold”for £24m
Notwithstanding additional fees for other materials
Sold to who for £24 million? Are you sure?!?
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Sold to who for £24 million? Are you sure?!?
That’s what’s assumed, perhaps you could provide some more information if it’s wrong.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
That’s what’s assumed, perhaps you could provide some more information if it’s wrong.
Happy to.
Sam Hammam didn't sell Cardiff City to anyone. He resigned from the board on 20 October 2006 in order 'to allow new investors to restructure the club's finances and enable the completion of the stadium project' (Source: the club's 2006 accounts).
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Happy to.
Sam Hammam didn't sell Cardiff City to anyone. He resigned from the board on 20 October 2006 in order 'to allow new investors to restructure the club's finances and enable the completion of the stadium project' (Source: the club's 2006 accounts).
Until Tan came along and became a majority shareholder and had taken control of the club, were Ridsdale and Paul Guy technically joint owners, or didn't we technically have an owner?
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Happy to.
Sam Hammam didn't sell Cardiff City to anyone. He resigned from the board on 20 October 2006 in order 'to allow new investors to restructure the club's finances and enable the completion of the stadium project' (Source: the club's 2006 accounts).
Ah right I didn’t realise he didn’t make anything , I always assumed articles like this one was more on point
Sam Hammam's wheeler dealing in British football looks over following the settlement of his long-running legal battle with Cardiff City.
The former Wimbledon owner had been in dispute with the club since 2006 over the repayment of a £24million loan he had agreed with the secretive Panama-registered Langston Corporation before he sold up to a consortium led by current chairman and chief executive Peter Ridsdale
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...y-dispute.html
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
Ah right I didn’t realise he didn’t make anything , I always assumed articles like this one was more on point....
Hammam desperately tried to claw back as much of the money he'd loaned the club (under the guise of the Langston loan notes) as he could. How much of that £24 million he eventually got back is anyone's guess.
The loan notes were issued to clear the club's debt to the bank, which had reached something like £21 million at that stage.
Hammam's shareholding in the club (under the banner of Rudgwick) was diluted on a number of occasions and effectively became worthless as time progressed. He didn't sell the club at any stage, let alone make a massive profit from any sale.
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Until Tan came along and became a majority shareholder and had taken control of the club, were Ridsdale and Paul Guy technically joint owners, or didn't we technically have an owner?
I'm pretty sure PMG Estates (Guy's company) became the major shareholders when Hammam was ousted. The quote the man himself: "The rugby boys booted me out."
:hehe:
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Re: Trust meeting with Dalman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Hammam desperately tried to claw back as much of the money he'd loaned the club (under the guise of the Langston loan notes) as he could. How much of that £24 million he eventually got back is anyone's guess.
The loan notes were issued to clear the club's debt to the bank, which had reached something like £21 million at that stage.
Hammam's shareholding in the club (under the banner of Rudgwick) was diluted on a number of occasions and effectively became worthless as time progressed. He didn't sell the club at any stage, let alone make a massive profit from any sale.
I believe he got most of it back , in addition looking at the historical accounts I think he also paid himself a healthy annual dividend although it’s very poor trading if you make a loss and pay yourself a dividend.