The boss not pulling any punches here...
https://nation.cymru/sport/cardiff-b...fter-cup-loss/
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The boss not pulling any punches here...
https://nation.cymru/sport/cardiff-b...fter-cup-loss/
I'd interpret that being Sawyers and Rinomhota's final appearances for us. There's surely no way he is referring towards the debutants, and we know Robinson, Tanner, Etete, Adams, Colwill and Panzo will be used in some capacity going forward.
We have to stabilise as a club this season
It's best the carling cup is out of the equation
He did right to pick a squad side
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
The more I see and the more I hear from this manager, the more I think we might be on to a good thing. We'll see.
Yup, and by the sounds of things, he didn't sound too happy with any of them tonight,Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBlue
a little unfair imho on certain players, we know it was a 2nd string team, if one of them had been asked to " step up " to the 1st team they might have done better, but it really was a 2nd string team, so they were not really asked to step up, they were asked to play in a team that wouldn't be good enough for the Championship
I agree, I only listened to the game, so I can’t be sure, but it.sounded like it was more experienced players who struggled most like Sawyers, Rinomhota, Romeo and Panzo and Evans found the defensive side of a role he must have barely played in before a struggle.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
The commentators were very impressed by Rubin Colwill, Bulut less so it seems.
The markings from Wales Online do not reflect the game I listened to, but who’s to know who’s right if you didn’t see what was happening yourself?
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...int_source=nba
Tanner staked his claim via these games. A few weeks later he's scoring the winner in the South Wales derby and in the starting lineup the game after that.
It's up to the other players to try and follow the same path and they failed to do so where Tanner succeeded.
Doesn't seem to suffer fools which is good and I wonder at what point the club start talking to him about extending his contract as he has a year plus an option to extend.
Appreciate it is early but the signs are positive in my view and we don't want to leave it too late?
Too right….Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
The starting line up was not a team of kids. Only 2, Colwill and Tanner, still qualify for the U21's.
6 of the team were Morison signings from the summer of '22. Most of whom were 1st choice at the start of last season. Another (Campbell) was on the bench. From what we've seen, apart from the strikers, none are good enough.
The squad lacks balance, Denham and Bagan's loans now look strange decisions as do the failure to move on Sawyers, Rinhomota and Campbell (although I accept that this may not have been by choice). From what I've seen so far from Joe Colwill he would be a better selection than Sawyers, Rinhomota and probably Adams (although not at centre back).
I'd have played Goutas, Joe Colwill and Luey Giles, ahead of Rinhomota, Sawyers and Tanner (or Evans) and given the team balance. Playing Goutas would have also given a fairer opportunity for Panzo to settle in.
And Kieran Evans, this is not his level. League 2 or maybe 1 at best!Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Kaiser
Difficult for Runarsson, Panzo and Romeo, they will be judged by some fans as part of a defensive unit that conceded five, at least we still got our usual two goals and Colwill, and Etete had a chance to show what they could do going forward.
I wouldn't take too much out of this result, and I agree with previous posts in that we should have used young defensive players to give them experience not try and adapt midfielders.
It does highlight or weak spots for cover, centre half, left back and Striker injuries will hit us hard, we need cover for those areas in January if we can find them.
I’ve been impressed with Bulut, but still maintain he will need two transfer windows to get the players he needs around him.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
Last night was a makeshift side with players playing out of position.
There was an opportunity for one or two to remind the manager what they were capable of and force him into thinking about how they could fit in with the current first team
It probably also confirmed to the coaching team that four or five players need to be moved on.
A win on Saturday and a place in the top six, and last night’s result will be a distant memory
I think we can thank our lucky stars we lost Lamouchi at the end of last season. From what I've seen so far Bulut is heaps better.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBlue
Agreed. I like his honesty as well, i like that he basically said that last night was a chance for players to show him what they're capable of, and some of them failed. I don'r quite understand excuses for players when they're presented with an opportunity. Maybe if they're young or inexperienced. But saying that the bloke playing next to you is shite is an excuse. Players who can play and who have the right attitude will still show their ability and character in a poor team, and a good manager will see it, even if things aren't working out for that player. The result was never that important for some of those players, their performance was though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Games like this can be a bit hit or miss, remember a lot of them haven't kicked a ball in anger for months, so they will be rusty and not up to standard, but hopefully, a few grabbed their opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
For the past two and a half seasons we've purely added to the squad with a view to replacing established players and keeping the club in the Championship. This squad is barely mid-table [currently], but there's signs that going forward there will be less emphasis on survival.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
My type of manager , you win and get respect by being honest with people and their abilities .. hiding a teams weaknesses will get you relegated and sacked .Quote:
Originally Posted by ccfcbluebird
Thought Sawyers really struggled yesterday. It was a frantic game and he couldn't get up to the pace. Difficult to drop into a game when you've played zero minutes recently though. Also thought Rinomota was pretty anonymous. Adams was the best of the 3 senior CMs in the team by some distance; and he was at CB. I'd say Adams was out best CB too, which might suggest that Panzo struggled a bit! Runarsson also seemed jittery but as above its problem harsh to judge too much on such a make shift team.
Colwill & Etete were the 2 standouts for me. Though Bulut wasn't overly complementary around the defensive side of Colwill's game nor his final pass etc, in the post-match comms. He certainly was the player getting us up the field and was my MOTM, but no idea what his instructions were defensively. I think Etete starts on Saturday. Potentially Robbo instead of one of the 3 CMs we started against Sunderland with, given we are playing Rotherham at home too.
And there's a reason why they haven't kicked a ball in anger (Competitively) for months. If they were showing more then they would have got their chance, although i'm not talking about the young lads on the bench, i'm talking about the established players in the team last night. I think that Bulut is fair, we have seen that with Tanner, he had two feet out the door, the only thing keeping him inside the threshold was his quiff. But Bulut allowed him a chance, has allowed him to develop, coached him on his work rate, concentration, intelligence, awareness etc, without taking away his ability with a ball. And it's working out pretty well so far, although still a long way to go with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
Professional football is no joke, it isn't really fair, for plenty of players with ability there will never be that perfect storm moment when they get to play along side other good players who can compliment them, that's earned after showing up in games like last nights, by doing your job, doing the right things even if they don't come off. I'm pretty sure that's what a manager-coach wants to see, then he can think, well yeah, that would have worked out with a better player alongside a certain player.
Chances are limited at this level, and players have to take them, it's that simple, or they're out, fofget the variables, they take responsibility for their own performance, the ones that can do that will prosper. I think that as fans, with our emotive hat on, and nothing wrong in that, we like to be more patient, forgiving. We build relationships with players and look for reasons why they're not performing, i do it, we all do it. Sadly for the players involved, the manager and coaching staff don't see it that way. Look at someone like Evans last night, i don't really know much about him, but bulut would have probably told him to show him something, show him why he should be considered for the first team, even if we lose 5-2 you go out there and give me a reason to take notice, take it on yourself, take responsibility when the odds are in your favour. He didn't do that (and i'm not picking on Evans, although he's 22 in December. That was a big chance for him last night.
Hardly gave many a platform to succeed. One centre half in the side, a formation the firsts don't play and an entirely second string team with kids coming on in the second halfQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Surely a better gauge on who can step up is how they perform alongside the actual firsts or at least in the shape we'd actually play? Surely it would make more sense to put Panzo in a back 4, stick a kid in at left back if needed and Evans in his actual position as a winger rather than a wing back on the wrong side? You can say chances are limited, but you can't just chuck a rag tag side together with little semblance to where these players play or would play if they were in the firsts and then say "x can't step up"
And they earn that right by doing well in games like last night. It's not me saying this, it's evidence based, we have all watched enough football and seen enough prospects. What should Bulut do, give these players the perfect platform to perform on so that they can show us how good they are? It's still a competitive football match, players can still show their worth in a poor team, they can show quality. These players have to help themselves when the chance arises, and last night was a chance for a few of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
Sorry, didn't see your whole post :thumbup: Shall we provide them with their favourite biscuits at half time as well, ask them if they're happy with the colour scheme in the changing room? :hehe: In my opinion, good players show through whatever the circumstances, even if they're asked to play a different role. And i would say that was what Bulut was looking for. The result was secondary. We can't promote players on the hope that they'd be better with better players around them, when they've not shown anything in games like last night. That would be ridiculous :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
This is a really good post. What you have highlighted is why I hate 11 changes for a cup game. West Ham did this last night although their 'reserve' team was full of multi-million pound players and they struggled to beat Lincoln with the aid of a jammy goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
It looks like Evans won't be with us much longer but hopefully it will not be because a young right-footed winger who's weakest part of his game is his defence that his big chance came as a left wing back with a makeshift defence behind him. He really has talent and there is no other player in the squad quite like him (probably a right-footed O'Dowda would be the best example).
What the game did highlight was that last season when we were poor with Romeo, Sawyers, Rinhomota etc as 1st choice; it may not have been the coaching that was to blame!
Don't want to be seen to criticise Bulut, who is clearly doing a good job.
I just don't really see the point playing players out of position in a formation we never play and then saying "he can't step up", you don't learn anything useful. If he genuinely wanted to learn something about those players it would have made far more sense playing the same system the first team play as that's where they'd actually play if they ever are called upon to play in the firsts rather than that ridiculous 3 at the back that we don't actually play. When is Romeo going to play as a right sided centre back? He's not. When are Evans or Tanner likely to play as wing backs? They're not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Evans is a good example of why last night was a little ridiculous for me. He's a winger who did ok in pre-season, why stick him in as a left wing back if you want to see if he can step up to the first team (where he would play as a left winger)? Surely it makes far more sense to stick him in as a left winger. If you want to see him take ownership of that role and test him defensively, stick a kid in at left back and have Evans help him through the game
Panzo as well, we've brought him in as one of our 3 main centre halves, why give him one of his few opportunities in a back 3 when we don't use one?
This would have made more sense to me and made Bulut's complains about who can step up more reasonable at least then they're in positions that actually correspond to how they'd play if they had to step up
Runnarson
Romeo Adams (if we must rest Gouts/McGuinness) Panzo Giles/Beecher
J.Colwill Rinomhota
Robinson R.Colwill Evans
Etete
There you have the system we actually play and players in positions they actually play with some of the younger players given responsibility. Go out and play well, no excuses. Instead we went with a bizarre formation we don't use, with square pegs in round holes.
Sounds like Bulut decided to put a series of fringe players into situations they were unfamiliar with and see if they sank or swam as it was a match where the result wasn’t hugely important - I just hope that the fact that many swam when put in the same situation in the Second Round at Birmingham isn’t forgotten.
I like the way Bulut is talking about Colwill.
He is pulling no punches on the weaknesses that need to be tackled, but clearly sees him as a player with a very high potential ceiling - and puts achieving that down to the coaching and to Rubin himself.
He made similar comments about Tanner but didn’t get the balance right. Too much stick and not enough carrot (in a second or third or fourth language)!
Bulut impresses me more as time goes by.
Whenever I have seen Colwill and Tanner play together they link up really well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ccfcbluebird
On his own though - he does come across as not looking as sharp as others - maybe that's his style - I dont know - but I can see why Bulut may become a bit frustrated. It's not as if he hasnt had the chances
Exactly, yet we had plenty on here blaming the coaching staff or saying that Colwill just can't play a certain way. There may be some truth to that in terms of him finding it difficult, but he has to learn the defensive side of the game and the out of possession bit in order to fulfil his potential. There's not a club on earth who would allow a player to ignore those aspects of the game. Look at the impact Colwill made at Sunderland. He was assertive, controlled, showed glimpses of quality, but we also saw another side to his game that hasn't been prevalent, he was a pain in the arse for the opposition when we weren't on the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Just watched the highlights.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Colwill seemed a bit lackadaisical in defense for a couple of their goals in my opinion.
Looked like Panzo had a bit of a mare and Runnerson was a bit jittery.
Let’s not forget though how bad Collins looked against Colchester and how fantastic he has been since.
I don't agree. Players can still show quality in a position that they're not used to. Evans wouldn't have all of a sudden lost his natural attributes because he was a bit more withdrawn in a position, from a starting point. He would still have the ability to pass a ball, carry a ball, use the vision he has, step inside onto his stronger foot, the game was in front of him. He may have struggled with getting into good positions when defending though. That's fair. Tanner, the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
Panzo was playing in his natural position. I have no idea on him, i have no idea how he played, although i'm sure that he's played in a back three before, if that causes him problems then we have problems.
Bulut may be seeing evans as a wing back, who knows, he may think that's his best position, he might have spoken to him about it, we don't know. He's almost 22 years old, so whatever he has been doing previously hasn't worked at Cardiff. That may sound harsh, it probably is, but for me, last night was a chance for him and others. Not ideal, not a perfect formation, but who can be afforded everything they want in order to succeed? Sometimes people have to show a bit more, prove people wrong, forget the obstacles.
I'm not saying they can't show quality and that they shouldn't take responsibility, I'm just saying that it seems a little pointless to completely change the shape and play players in unfamiliar positions if you're genuinely looking to see if they can play in a league match where they would be in a completely different shape. Its not a question of giving people everything they want, it's about playing them in the position they would play in a league game and seeing how they get on. That's hardly a huge ask?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Realistically, what was the point completely changing the shape last night? He caught lightning in a bottle at Birmingham and it worked out, but wouldn't it make more sense to play the same way and see how they do in Grant's role, or Siopis' role etc? You have an obvious comparison there on how they would do if they had to step into that role in a league match for whatever reason.
Could it be that Bulut has seen in training that he’s confident that the fringe players can do a job in a like for like swap in their preferred position? He used last night, unsuccessfully it seems, to see how they performed out of their comfort zone, to see how versatile they could be should the situation arise. Perhaps he saw this game as the competition to experiment in rather than having to make an enforced change in a league match with not much clue how the replacement would fit in, slotting into a necessary unfamiliar role at that particular moment. Last night may have taught him a lot about our squad.
Yeah, could well be. Couid also be that he sees certain players in a different light to what they or the fans think. Not saying he's right, but he sees them every day. Nathan Blake made his debut as a central defender against Bristol Rovers (unless it was a few games after he made his debut) he showed plenty of quality in that role, even though he wasn't a defender. That's because he was a good player who could adapt and think for himself. Football isn't that complicated a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by splott parker
I don't think that Bulut gave an arse about the formation, probably experimenting a bit to see what options he has. I do reckon though that he was more interested in individual performances, concentration etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
I would say desire, was one of the main things he wanted to see, who actually wants this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Football is a brutal world and you can have all the skills in the world, but as a team sport you have to demonstrate that you have the will to succeed in a team environment
We’ve all heard the phrase bodies on the line, but sometimes it’s down to just that basic hunger for success or as I’ve heard it called the need and greed to succeed
Agreed. There has to be a certain mindset for players to succeed, you would have thought. I don't get this talk of formations and players playing slightly out of position, then nothing coming back which passes responsibility onto them as individuals with the ability to perform. Maybe i'm being a bit harsh, my mantra is to get on with things and make the best of a situation, and if it isn't working, get the hell out and do something else instead. look at yourself before you look at other people and situations. So, i suppose i may be being a little unreasonable, as i can only transcend those thoughts into every day life, not those of a high performing Athlete :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by olderblue