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Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Afternoon all :sherlock:
I know it's posted every year but I'm genuinely intrigued as to why there's a lack of support for the club in the City of Cardiff itself? Wandering around you'd never know there was a match on and that's reflected in the attendances. Can't think of any other cities of a similar size which struggle as much as we do. Is it a lack of identity? Are the people of Cardiff not arsed?
I do understand the generational element of people moving out (I left Cathays 20 years ago) but I still can't put my finger on it, particularly as people travel from further afield to the games?
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts..?
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Very poor crowd again last night
I could understand it we were near the basement
Our fans are incredibly fickle and that's the ones that go
Whole sections of the cardiff and south wales public are not interested or would rather watch united on the TV
It's absolutely pathetic
The fans that support us home and away are fantastic and up there among the best
The problem is there simply isn't enough of them
The football club , the trust , the fans have all tried to increase the gates but its a waste of time and always has been
South Wales will support Cardiff City if we are doing well but these days that means being in the Premier league
We are capable of huge support but not on a regular basis and that's why we are where we are
One week the excuse is Xmas shopping , the weather , boring football , the next is its too expensive despite us being very cheap to watch compared to others
Or there's more to do in Cardiff on a Wednesday night than in Stoke or Plymouth
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
The same issues apply to most clubs with more games on TV than ever and there's definitely an identity and connection issue after years of Dalman meddling after the f*cking rebrand.
However Ipswich averaged 26k last year in League one, now around 28K. Last night was piss poor, I don't understand why it's such a vacuum in the city itself? Last season our average was less than the Wurzels and Stoke.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
The same issues apply to most clubs with more games on TV than ever and there's definitely an identity and connection issue after years of Dalman meddling after the f*cking rebrand.
However Ipswich averaged 26k last year in League one, now around 28K. Last night was piss poor, I don't understand why it's such a vacuum in the city itself? Last season our average was less than the Wurzels and Stoke.
The support for Cardiff City and Cardiff Blues isn't what it should be let's be honest
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
I agree Sludge, but I don't understand the reasons why .
One of the best sociological university faculties in Europe in the City and I don't think any work has ever been done?
The Capital City, no teams nearby, yet the city of Cardiff and it's boroughs are dead on a match day.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
The same issues apply to most clubs with more games on TV than ever and there's definitely an identity and connection issue after years of Dalman meddling after the f*cking rebrand.
However Ipswich averaged 26k last year in League one, now around 28K. Last night was piss poor, I don't understand why it's such a vacuum in the city itself? Last season our average was less than the Wurzels and Stoke.
My view is the truth is identity means nothing
If Cardiff City were in the Premier league people would be climbing over each other to get into the ground
Until that happens and we stay there for a long time that's the way it is
Xmas shopping , it's too expensive , I don't like the style of football and all that other excuses crap will be forgotten about
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
I agree Sludge, but I don't understand the reasons why .
One of the best sociological university faculties in Europe in the City and I don't think any work has ever been done?
The Capital City, no teams nearby, yet the city of Cardiff and it's boroughs are dead on a match day.
There's no interest in sport in the social science department of Cardiff University. Martin Johnes at Swansea University has written some really good stuff. He's a Jack but he has written about City too. A very good bloke and a superb historian.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
I agree Sludge, but I don't understand the reasons why .
One of the best sociological university faculties in Europe in the City and I don't think any work has ever been done?
The Capital City, no teams nearby, yet the city of Cardiff and it's boroughs are dead on a match day.
I don't think the capital city status means we should have good support but we should have bigger crowds than we do
It's more to do with the population which is easily big enough to sustain a top flight football club
The main reason is a lack of success over the years but even then people would find some excuse not to bother
I think the word bullshitters describes them
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
True, but there's teams in the French second division with higher attendances.
The national sport, the capital city, no connection. General apathy.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
He seems like a good bloke, is the piece about Cardiff online? As I mentioned would love to know why the city of Cardiff seems non plussed about CCFC
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
The support for Cardiff City and Cardiff Blues isn't what it should be let's be honest
I've never lived in Cardiff or South Wales so speak as an outsider but it appears to me that the club is not embedded in the local psyche as in some other cities, and never has been. There is also very little football culture in Cardiff as a city. Our yo-yo crowds go back as long as the club has been around as far as I'm aware.
There is certainly an 'event' culture in Cardiff hence big matches in either rugby or football will always be well attended, but for the most part these are interested spectators rather than committed supporters.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Agree, it's definitely not culturally rooted in the nearby areas in Grange or Canton. Never mind further out.
The event culture is definitely a broader social attraction in Wales, an excuse to have a jolly.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Sometimes, certainly in the Championship, it isn't just a question of where you are in the league. I think the general perception of the club at present amongst our large fanbase is that despite reaching the heady heights of 6th place, we are a struggling club. No money for players, a squad full of non-league signings, players with no previous league experience, players from lower leagues, and one over-rated 'starlet'. I certainly feel like that I'm following a club that has ceased to be 'on the up'..
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
He seems like a good bloke, is the piece about Cardiff online? As I mentioned would love to know why the city of Cardiff seems non plussed about CCFC
He has a book called Soccer and Society which is a history of football in Wales. It's not exclusively about City. He apologies for calling it soccer and for focusing on us more than the Jacks 😁 He did a very good two part (I think) series too called Wales:England's Last Colony. Not football related but well worth a watch and I'm sure available online.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Good point but even in our first promotion we were getting about 22k average. When we were on the up so to speak.
For a City of over 360k people it's mind blowing.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Thanks.
Makes you wonder why the marketing team at the club have never cracked it or made efforts to affect the people who live in the city itself.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
Afternoon all :sherlock:
I know it's posted every year but I'm genuinely intrigued as to why there's a lack of support for the club in the City of Cardiff itself? Wandering around you'd never know there was a match on and that's reflected in the attendances. Can't think of any other cities of a similar size which struggle as much as we do. Is it a lack of identity? Are the people of Cardiff not arsed?
I do understand the generational element of people moving out (I left Cathays 20 years ago) but I still can't put my finger on it, particularly as people travel from further afield to the games?
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts..?
Been mentioned many times a city approaching 400,000 people, half a million if you throw in penarth and Barry, how many regularly go? 10,000 max. It’s. Shocker but I’m not surprised. The club are useless. Will think of an initiative to attract new fans, let’s run a bus from somewhere else in the valleys? Somewhere people are skint and life’s tough….Meanwhile 1000’s of people who can afford it choose to do other things within 5 miles of the ground.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Exactly Goats, it's mind blowing that potentially 1000s of fans could walk home easily from the ground or get a bus back up to Ely or Roath.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Been mentioned many times a city approaching 400,000 people, half a million if you throw in penarth and Barry, how many regularly go? 10,000 max. It’s. Shocker but I’m not surprised. The club are useless. Will think of an initiative to attract new fans, let’s run a bus from somewhere else in the valleys? Somewhere people are skint and life’s tough….Meanwhile 1000’s of people who can afford it choose to do other things within 5 miles of the ground.
The general attitude of the club’s employees towards its customers leaves a lot to be desired if you ask me. Puts floaters off from what I’ve been told.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
The football we play is often very dull, all this playing out from the back and passing to one another amongst the back four. It is so tedious; the first half v Millwall was akin to watching paint dry.
Too much of each game we play in our defensive third near our own goal. More attacking football and less passing between the defenders would make us more exciting and possibly encourage more fans to attend.
For myself living in London, I don’t want to pay for a hotel and meals especially when the games are so poor. If the trains ran later out of Cardiff Central, then I would come to every game. The last train leave too early; expect it is the same travelling to other locations after 10pm from Cardiff on the Tuesday/Wednesday night. As it is at present, I can only make the Saturday fixtures. There must be lots of other season ticket holders like myself whose absence mid week makes the stadium look so bare.
Primarily though, more exciting football is needed before supporters show up in their droves, plus better music in the ground pre match and at half time and just an improved atmosphere from the marketing side of the club in general.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Plenty of reasons that don’t require a sociological degree.
Up until 15-20 years ago we were awful and had a horrible hooligan reputation. There are plenty of people in their 30’s and 40’s who weren’t raised as Cardiff fans and subsequently aren’t raising their children as fans. Most people are hooked as children. It takes a lot more effort to convert an adult into a fan than a child.
We were very very late to the Premier League party and the explosion in national exposure to football for the casual fan. Just look at some of the crowds the big teams were getting before 1992. In the 32 years since the PL’s conception we have only been there twice. And for the first 15 years we were in the lower leagues so weren’t even in the peripheral as promotion contenders.
We are not historically a big or successful club. The 2010’s has arguably been our most successful period since the 1920’s. In the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s most other clubs can at least boast league titles, cup wins or a sustained top flight status.
Success brings fans, which is why we’re now getting average attendances of ~20k each season compared to the 90’s when we were averaging 3k-5k.
And on top of all that you can chuck in the fact that Wales simply isn’t into football as much as England.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
Plenty of reasons that don’t require a sociological degree.
Up until 15-20 years ago we were awful and had a horrible hooligan reputation. There are plenty of people in their 30’s and 40’s who weren’t raised as Cardiff fans and subsequently aren’t raising their children as fans. Most people are hooked as children. It takes a lot more effort to convert an adult into a fan than a child.
We were very very late to the Premier League party and the explosion in national exposure to football for the casual fan. Just look at some of the crowds the big teams were getting before 1992. In the 32 years since the PL’s conception we have only been there twice. And for the first 15 years we were in the lower leagues so weren’t even in the peripheral as promotion contenders.
We are not historically a big or successful club. The 2010’s has arguably been our most successful period since the 1920’s. In the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s most other clubs can at least boast league titles, cup wins or a sustained top flight status.
Success brings fans, which is why we’re now getting average attendances of ~20k each season compared to the 90’s when we were averaging 3k-5k.
And on top of all that you can chuck in the fact that Wales simply isn’t into football as much as England.
Some valid points but we had bumper crowds in the 60s and 70s: My family all from Cardiff can recount excitement around games.
We also aren’t the only club who’ve recovered from a reputational issue or lack of success
There is no other club in the UK where the city with one club doesn’t follow the team.
It’s a unique and strictly Cardiff problem.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
Plenty of reasons that don’t require a sociological degree.
Up until 15-20 years ago we were awful and had a horrible hooligan reputation. There are plenty of people in their 30’s and 40’s who weren’t raised as Cardiff fans and subsequently aren’t raising their children as fans. Most people are hooked as children. It takes a lot more effort to convert an adult into a fan than a child.
We were very very late to the Premier League party and the explosion in national exposure to football for the casual fan. Just look at some of the crowds the big teams were getting before 1992. In the 32 years since the PL’s conception we have only been there twice. And for the first 15 years we were in the lower leagues so weren’t even in the peripheral as promotion contenders.
We are not historically a big or successful club. The 2010’s has arguably been our most successful period since the 1920’s. In the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s most other clubs can at least boast league titles, cup wins or a sustained top flight status.
Success brings fans, which is why we’re now getting average attendances of ~20k each season compared to the 90’s when we were averaging 3k-5k.
And on top of all that you can chuck in the fact that Wales simply isn’t into football as much as England.
The Welsh are definitely into football
The problem for us is that they like success so they are more likely to support Liverpool or Man United than Cardiff City , Swansea , County etc
It's fecking pathetic to see adults poncing around in Liverpool tops but the only way to change it is for ccfc to be in the top flight and to stay there
It's absolutely incredible that Bournemouth, Brentford etc make a fist of it but we screw it up
If we did get successful people would be lining up to get in and the weather, traffic , shopping , the wife's sisters got flu and all the other nonsense wouldn't even be mentioned
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
Some valid points but we had bumper crowds in the 60s and 70s: My family all from Cardiff can recount excitement around games.
We also aren’t the only club who’ve recovered from a reputational issue or lack of success
There is no other club in the UK where the city with one club doesn’t follow the team.
It’s a unique and strictly Cardiff problem.
We had big crowds and we have always been able to pull big numbers
But they don't stick around
And that's our problem
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
Some valid points but we had bumper crowds in the 60s and 70s: My family all from Cardiff can recount excitement around games.
We also aren’t the only club who’ve recovered from a reputational issue or lack of success
There is no other club in the UK where the city with one club doesn’t follow the team.
It’s a unique and strictly Cardiff problem.
The 60’s and 70’s saw bumper crowds all across the UK and up and down the pyramid.
Avg attendance in Division 1
1960 - 1970 was ~31k.
1970 - 1980 was ~27k
1980 - 1990 was ~ 20k
Then in 1992, the first year of the Premier League, the average attendance was 21,600. A decade later the average was 35,500. Last season the average hit 40,000+ for the first time ever.
If you compare that first decade of the PL with the rest of the pyramid you can see why we lagged behind.
1st tier. 21,400 > 35,500
2nd tier. 10,500 > 15,400
3rd tier. 5,400 > 7,000
4th tier. 3,400 > 4,500
Premier League teams on average saw their crowds grow by 2/3rds. 3rd and 4th tier teams by less than 1/3rd.
We missed out and have been stuck playing catch-up.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
The 60’s and 70’s saw bumper crowds all across the UK and up and down the pyramid.
Avg attendance in Division 1
1960 - 1970 was ~31k.
1970 - 1980 was ~27k
1980 - 1990 was ~ 20k
Then in 1992, the first year of the Premier League, the average attendance was 21,600. A decade later the average was 35,500. Last season the average hit 40,000+ for the first time ever.
If you compare that first decade of the PL with the rest of the pyramid you can see why we lagged behind.
1st tier. 21,400 > 35,500
2nd tier. 10,500 > 15,400
3rd tier. 5,400 > 7,000
4th tier. 3,400 > 4,500
Premier League teams on average saw their crowds grow by 2/3rds. 3rd and 4th tier teams by less than 1/3rd.
We missed out and have been stuck playing catch-up.
Excellent thanks.
Our crowds grew in the last ten years but have since regressed.
My question still remains, why isn’t there widespread support in the city of Cardiff itself?
The valleys, Barry, Bridgend, Caerphilly all heartlands yet Cardiff seems to be people disinterested. Must be the only city in Europe with such an issue, where we do the hard bit of convincing fans to travel to home games but not those fans who are close to the ground.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
South Wales will support Cardiff City if we are doing well but these days that means being in the Premier league
Finally the penny drops. Look at clubs who have kept similar crowds in the Championship when they've been relegated from the top flight and you'll find that they're all massive clubs with many years spent at that level.
What do you expect, similar crowds in the Prem and Championship? Really?
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Finally the penny drops. Look at clubs who have kept similar crowds in the Championship when they've been relegated from the top flight and you'll find that they're all massive clubs with many years spent at that level.
What do you expect, similar crowds in the Prem and Championship? Really?
Bristol city and Stoke have bigger average attendances than us.Ipswich had bigger in league one as did Derby.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
Bristol city and Stoke have bigger average attendances than us.Ipswich had bigger in league one as did Derby.
And?
We've spent 2 seasons staving off relegation battles yet our average this season is over 1.5k bigger than last season and higher than when we won promotion under Warnock.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
All these other clubs had 10 20 or 30 years in the top flight before coming down to this level it's those long periods of time which then generate generations of families that stick with their home town club and not latch on to the top six.
It's as simple as that.
Cardiff is infested with these tossers sadly due to 17 years in the bottom 2 leagues
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
Some valid points but we had bumper crowds in the 60s and 70s: My family all from Cardiff can recount excitement around games.
We also aren’t the only club who’ve recovered from a reputational issue or lack of success
There is no other club in the UK where the city with one club doesn’t follow the team.
It’s a unique and strictly Cardiff problem.
That's absolute nonsense.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
Excellent thanks.
Our crowds grew in the last ten years but have since regressed.
My question still remains, why isn’t there widespread support in the city of Cardiff itself?
The valleys, Barry, Bridgend, Caerphilly all heartlands yet Cardiff seems to be people disinterested. Must be the only city in Europe with such an issue, where we do the hard bit of convincing fans to travel to home games but not those fans who are close to the ground.
How do we know that other sides' main support comes from the cities themselves? You cite Stoke and Bristol City. I reckon lots of their support comes from outside those cities.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
Exactly Goats, it's mind blowing that potentially 1000s of fans could walk home easily from the ground or get a bus back up to Ely or Roath.
Without a doubt. I wonder how many of those support the likes of Liverpool and Man Utd? Think about it. During the 80s and 90s when we were at our worst, they were the two most successful teams in the league.
I have two close friends living near Newport. They're both United fans in their mid 20s. I've offered to take them to see a Newport County game, their local team, as long as it didn't clash with us being at home, just to get them interested in their local side. Not a flicker of interest. No interest in watching them play the likes of Northampton, Walsall etc and, in a way, I don't blame them. Unless you're a supporter, why would you want to watch a bottom division match? The answer of "because it's your local team" doesn't cut it one bit.
I think, sometimes, we get too hung up on needing to support a "local" side. Most of the top PL sides rely on support from way outside their areas.
Cardiff, being shit during the growth of the PL in the 90s, not to mention the hooligan issues, has hurt us in terms of attracting fans. Get us to the PL and we're nearly selling out every week. There's a world of difference between playing a PL game at home and the shit we saw last night.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
And?
We've spent 2 seasons staving off relegation battles yet our average this season is over 1.5k bigger than last season and higher than when we won promotion under Warnock.
Excuses
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Finally the penny drops. Look at clubs who have kept similar crowds in the Championship when they've been relegated from the top flight and you'll find that they're all massive clubs with many years spent at that level.
What do you expect, similar crowds in the Prem and Championship? Really?
Pompey , Bradford , Plymouth
All bigger gates than us in the lower leagues
Unless we are playing the big boys a lot of people simply couldn't give a toss
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
insider
All these other clubs had 10 20 or 30 years in the top flight before coming down to this level it's those long periods of time which then generate generations of families that stick with their home town club and not latch on to the top six.
It's as simple as that.
Cardiff is infested with these tossers sadly due to 17 years in the bottom 2 leagues
The years before didn't help either
Even when we were in the old division two and three we were shite and a yo yo club
We certainly wernt getting huge gates on a regular basis in the seventies
Hereford was a whopper but big gates were often followed by a huge drop in support if we wernt playing a big team or it wasn't an important game with something on it
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
That's absolute nonsense.
Chill
How many capital cities in Europe have one club and very few people actually support the club?
It’s easy and lazy to wheel out the same excuses like the premier league. It hasn’t affected other clubs of a similar size who’ve not been established EPL teams. Plus there’s no other clubs near us geographically.
Re Warnock attendances, we are currently averaging 2k less than that season
I don’t know if Cardiff fans are more apathetic than others but there doesn’t seem to be a cultural link to the city itself
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horse_face
Chill
How many capital cities in Europe have one club and very few people actually support the club?
It’s easy and lazy to wheel out the same excuses like the premier league. It hasn’t affected other clubs of a similar size who’ve not been established EPL teams. Plus there’s no other clubs near us geographically.
Re Warnock attendances, we are currently averaging 2k less than that season
I don’t know if Cardiff fans are more apathetic than others but there doesn’t seem to be a cultural link to the city itself
Of course cardiff fans are more apathetic
And fickle
You could offer free tickets left right and centre and even offer to drive some fans to the ground and they would find an excuse
Weather
Champions league
Christmas shopping
The goldfish has the flu
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Excuses
Ok, so if they're excuses, I would like to know how you saw our attendances going from when Russell Slade was in charge with reasons. Over to you, or shut up.
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Re: Our fanbase from the City of Cardiff (again)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Pompey , Bradford , Plymouth
All bigger gates than us in the lower leagues
Unless we are playing the big boys a lot of people simply couldn't give a toss
And why does that matter? There are other clubs who had lower crowds than us.