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Club suing Willie McKay
From the Supporters' Trust
EXCLUSIVE: Cardiff City Take Legal Action Against Willie McKay In Sala Case:
The Trust understands from senior sources at Cardiff City that the football club is suing Willie McKay, who was involved in the transfer of Emiliano Sala from FC Nantes.
Trust Chair Keith Morgan said: "I understand the legal action against Mr McKay is for the release of documents and data, which the club believes, will prove beyond doubt that he was the agent for the Sala transfer and strengthen their ongoing legal proceedings against Nantes.
"This is an important and significant move by the club in its court action against the French club."
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Undercoverinwurzelland
From the Supporters' Trust
EXCLUSIVE: Cardiff City Take Legal Action Against Willie McKay In Sala Case:
The Trust understands from senior sources at Cardiff City that the football club is suing Willie McKay, who was involved in the transfer of Emiliano Sala from FC Nantes.
Trust Chair Keith Morgan said: "I understand the legal action against Mr McKay is for the release of documents and data, which the club believes, will prove beyond doubt that he was the agent for the Sala transfer and strengthen their ongoing legal proceedings against Nantes.
"This is an important and significant move by the club in its court action against the French club."
I would hope that none of our previous managers had anything to gain by allowing McKay's involvement.....Ahem....Cough.....
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
The last update Keith Morgan sent to Trust members on 13 December said
A large element of their defence appears to be that they don't recognise Willie McKay as their agent and instead dealt with a different company as agent (a "shell" company which lists its directors as Willie McKay's son and wife and which at the time had no trading records filed at Companies House).Reliable sources at Cardiff City have told me that the club has copious amounts of documents disproving Nantes defence.
This must be the next step in trying to dismantle Nantes' defence against our claim
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Would he keep a paper trail and if there was wouldn't shady companies from Panama and its ilk be involved which means almost no chance of of records being handed over.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PontBlue
Would he keep a paper trail and if there was wouldn't shady companies from Panama and its ilk be involved which means almost no chance of of records being handed over.
If he was operating as self employed and domiciled in the UK then he is obliged to keep all records relating to UK commercial and taxation laws. These have to be kept for 5 years after the relevant tax assessment deadline. The relevant tax year would have been 2019/20 with a submission deadline of Jan 2021, so he cannot legally destroy any such records until Feb 2026.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Yeah, his records might well have gone the same way as Johnson and Sunak's WhatsApp messages.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Undercoverinwurzelland
Yeah, his records might well have gone the same way as Johnson and Sunak's WhatsApp messages.
If they really wanted to release them they would be easily able to be recovered. Keep up at the back
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
This rat is still involved in football:
https://x.com/sportspeteo/status/173...3FBP0ioR4iDB5A
I hope to God we win, and he and his family get banned for life. I’d hope there would be similar punishments if any of our club acted improperly.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Looks like an Al Capone manoeuvre.
If you can’t get him because there’s not enough evidence then HMRC will go after him for not keeping proper records for tax purposes.
It will be his choice. It’s either Cardiff City or HMRC or HMRC might be waiting to see what is produced in his defence and going after him regardless.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
How does someone like that get FIFA approval? Hang on, I’ve just realised that’s a daft question.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
I would hope that none of our previous managers had anything to gain by allowing McKay's involvement.....Ahem....Cough.....
*laughing*
The whole thing will unravel quicker than the Tories currently eating themselves.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JumpersforGoalposts
If he was operating as self employed and domiciled in the UK then he is obliged to keep all records relating to UK commercial and taxation laws. These have to be kept for 5 years after the relevant tax assessment deadline. The relevant tax year would have been 2019/20 with a submission deadline of Jan 2021, so he cannot legally destroy any such records until Feb 2026.
He was based in Monaco I believe and guessing that he is not answerable to HMRC. He would be operating under Monaco law. Did he also transfer his assets into his wife and son's name ?
If this case is for data / docs then he may turn tables and supply what he has - but I doubt that will ever happen
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
He was based in Monaco I believe and guessing that he is not answerable to HMRC. He would be operating under Monaco law. Did he also transfer his assets into his wife and son's name ?
If this case is for data / docs then he may turn tables and supply what he has - but I doubt that will ever happen
I don’t recall the relevant agreements but if you’re registered for tax in Country X when asked to do so by your country of residence then you are required to prove that you paid your due taxes.
There no escape the tax authorities these days.
As an aside US citizens are required to declare any monies or investments held in any other country. Including Switzerland. And required to prove that you paid taxes on your income. The Swiss banks must also declare their client list to the IRS
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
He was based in Monaco I believe and guessing that he is not answerable to HMRC. He would be operating under Monaco law. Did he also transfer his assets into his wife and son's name ?
If this case is for data / docs then he may turn tables and supply what he has - but I doubt that will ever happen
He is a UK citizen and subject to HMRC rules. In the same way he was subject to UK law which is why he was made bankrupt in the UK ( for 5 years rather than the normal 1 due to his activities).
It is disgusting that FIFA have allowed him to become one of their Licenced Intermediaries (formerly called agents) so soon after getting his discharge but perhaps not entirely surprising (as Paul refers to earlier in this thread) based on the way FIFA and its senior people go about their business.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Why are the club now leaking information via the trust? All very strange
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ninian1962
He is a UK citizen and subject to HMRC rules. In the same way he was subject to UK law which is why he was made bankrupt in the UK ( for 5 years rather than the normal 1 due to his activities).
Is this the case? I’m a UK citizen, domiciled in Poland, with a NT HMRC tax code, being paid in UK but taxed in Poland, as l live in Poland for more than 193 days per year. If he’s based / domiciled in Monaco for more than 193 days he’s subject to their tax laws.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheBirchgrovePub
Why are the club now leaking information via the trust? All very strange
It is not "leaking". It is updating an elected fan body on matters which are on the public record if you search hard enough. The Trust is also the only fans body at the club officially registered with and recognised by the Financial Conduct Authority.
Like the official Supporters Club and the Disabled Supporters Association , it is also a full member of the national Football Supporters Association and has played a big part in getting the recent changes to football governance into a Government White Paper which was in the King`s Speech to change the law in the next Parliamentary session.
The formation of the Fans Advisory Board at CCFC which will start next month will lead to more of these disclosures as they impact on the fanbase.
Keith
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
That will be the end of any chances we had of signing players from Besiktas in January. It's almost as if MacKay looked at who we were looking to sign and went and did a deal with their clubs to **** us up.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
Is this the case? I’m a UK citizen, domiciled in Poland, with a NT HMRC tax code, being paid in UK but taxed in Poland, as l live in Poland for more than 193 days per year. If he’s based / domiciled in Monaco for more than 193 days he’s subject to their tax laws.
Same here....I am UK Born, UK Passport, get my pensions paid to UK bank, but live permanently in France. I have NT code in uk, and file my tax return/pay tax in France.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheBirchgrovePub
Why are the club now leaking information via the trust? All very strange
The Trust are one of the 3 bodies recognised by the Club. The Club also knows that the Trust is the only one of those 3 bodies that has a structured means of communicating with its members. If it was not for the Trust informing its members no-one would know, for example, what happens at the ad hoc meetings organised by Mehmet Dalman. Credit is due to Keith for keeping his members informed and, as a consequence, everyone else when Trust members emails about such meetings and other big picture issues are reproduced on here and elsewhere.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ninian1962
It is not "leaking". It is updating an elected fan body on matters which are on the public record if you search hard enough. The Trust is also the only fans body at the club officially registered with and recognised by the Financial Conduct Authority.
Like the official Supporters Club and the Disabled Supporters Association , it is also a full member of the national Football Supporters Association and has played a big part in getting the recent changes to football governance into a Government White Paper which was in the King`s Speech to change the law in the next Parliamentary session.
The formation of the Fans Advisory Board at CCFC which will start next month will lead to more of these disclosures as they impact on the fanbase.
Keith
Will the insurance payout recently received by the club show on the statement of financial position ?
Any idea what it was even if it’s a total guess ?
Thanks
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
light up the darkness
I don’t recall the relevant agreements but if you’re registered for tax in Country X when asked to do so by your country of residence then you are required to prove that you paid your due taxes.
There no escape the tax authorities these days.
As an aside US citizens are required to declare any monies or investments held in any other country. Including Switzerland. And required to prove that you paid taxes on your income. The Swiss banks must also declare their client list to the IRS
I think you are wrong on that one - eg - if he was registered in Switzerland but did some work in the UK. Then yes , he would have to pay some small amount of tax in the UK - but if the transaction occurred in Switzerland for something like and an end of project work / consultancy advice - then he would pay the relevant tax in Switzerland - which is a lot less than the UK.
HMRC could ask the Swiss tax authority for information - and under Swiss law they will not give that information. You only pay tax once not twice - there is no double jeopardy.
This is / was a common situation back in the 90's - eg live in Belgium , work in Holland , get paid in Switzerland - you are never in any country more than 180 days. I used to know a couple of UK trades people doing this - ironically while doing work on EU parliament buildings. HMRC would be shown their Dutch tax payments - to prove there had been tax paid. When HMRC asked the Swiss tax office for info on payments made - they were told to get lost.
This is very similar to the alleged arrangement an ex City manager and his assistant had.
So I'm guessing that Monaco / Cayman Islands / Isle of Mann etc have even less regulations - which I would also guess, McKay knows about and has made arrangements accordingly.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
Is this the case? I’m a UK citizen, domiciled in Poland, with a NT HMRC tax code, being paid in UK but taxed in Poland, as l live in Poland for more than 193 days per year. If he’s based / domiciled in Monaco for more than 193 days he’s subject to their tax laws.
It is very easy to get a UK NT tax code (as long as you dont have property in the UK) He could easily keep under the UK 180 day rule, work in France (for less than 180 days) have his 'office' in Switzerland and live in Monaco - so he would never be anywhere for more than 180 days per year. He could then domicile himself wherever he wants - including the Cayman Islands.
That's why Branson lives where he does - and various oligarchs effectively live on yachts in international waters.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Where he is domiciled for tax is not relevant. The administration of tax systems is largely the same wherever you are, i.e. you are required to keep tax records for 5 or 6 years after the end of each tax year.
A legal action like this REQUIRES full disclosure of all relevant documents.
The options are:
- provide the documents;
- if "lost" provide all available related information such as tax returns and supporting documents held by a tax authority;
- refuse to disclose and face contempt of court proceedings.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
https://x.com/stevecmb/status/174161...LhmySD2aRt-GNg
Not only did Nantes decline to contribute to the trust fund, neither did the myriad of agents involved in the deal who received their fees. Also the PFA did not make a death in service payment to the family as they did not recognise him as our player as registration not completed
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
How the worm has turned with this one
Many using this as a stick to beat the club with because of their irrational loathing on Tan.
Cries of “just pay them!” have gone down to next to none.
Hope we get everything we deserve
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
How the worm has turned with this one
Many using this as a stick to beat the club with because of their irrational loathing on Tan.
Cries of “just pay them!” have gone down to next to none.
Hope we get everything we deserve
Agreed and hopefully all the people who derided the clubs position on this will then stand up and apologise to Tan and the club for the disgraceful way they behaved over a matter where it has become obvious that the real villainy lies elsewhere.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
How the worm has turned with this one
Many using this as a stick to beat the club with because of their irrational loathing on Tan.
Cries of “just pay them!” have gone down to next to none.
Hope we get everything we deserve
Usually the Scam supporters who still think he can do no wrong because he gives them a call every now and then. It’s also very easy to spend someone else’s money.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
How the worm has turned with this one
Many using this as a stick to beat the club with because of their irrational loathing on Tan.
Cries of “just pay them!” have gone down to next to none.
Hope we get everything we deserve
I thought we were forced to pay them? But our insurance finally paid out so nothing lost……I’d love to see Nantes get done over for this, and their dodgy agents who didn’t give a monkeys about Sala.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
I thought we were forced to pay them? But our insurance finally paid out so nothing lost……I’d love to see Nantes get done over for this, and their dodgy agents who didn’t give a monkeys about Sala.
What did our insurance finally pay out?
I thought the club reached a financial settlement with the insurance broker when we sued them but it was never suggested the Sala fee was covered by that.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
I always thought that it was ruled that sala was our player and we had to pay Nantes for him. Suing McKay is a separate issue, nothing to do with the transfer fee. I can't ever recall anyone supporting Mckay, which is what this litigation is about. Fans who said that the club should pay up were right, because the club did.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
I always thought that it was ruled that sala was our player and we had to pay Nantes for him. Suing McKay is a separate issue, nothing to do with the transfer fee. I can't ever recall anyone supporting Mckay, which is what this litigation is about. Fans who said that the club should pay up were right, because the club did.
Well how come there was no payment made by the PFA because he "wasn't our player because the registration wasn't completed" ?
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Well how come there was no payment made by the PFA because he "wasn't our player because the registration wasn't completed" ?
Don't know, but the club paid the transfer fee, after appealing it as well.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Well how come there was no payment made by the PFA because he "wasn't our player because the registration wasn't completed" ?
Let’s hope that the club never parade a ’potential’ signing in City kit alongside Ken Choo until all relevant paperwork has been completed. It was a bit ‘Here’s our new signing’ when he was alive becoming ‘He’s definitely not our player’ a few days later after the tragedy.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
I always thought that it was ruled that sala was our player and we had to pay Nantes for him.
What this episode has shown is that Fifa needs to get a grip of transfers and put rules in place. You have some organisations saying he's our player and others saying he isn't. The whole situation is a mess
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Nobody and neither club have come out of this with any credit.
Having said that it appears at the moment that Tan has been correct in his pursuit of legal actions and recourse to the legal system outside of the football system
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
How the worm has turned with this one
Many using this as a stick to beat the club with because of their irrational loathing on Tan.
Cries of “just pay them!” have gone down to next to none.
Hope we get everything we deserve
Interesting to note that, between them, the three recent Trust posts about the current state of the legal claim against FC Nantes, the action to reclaim documents and data from Mckay and the contribution to the Sala family trust fund have now received almost 150k views on Twitter (I still cant bring myself to call it X).
Hopefully ,they will indicate to people how the Trust gets involved in important football issues as they impact on our club and encourage more fans to sign up for Trust membership.
Keith
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Agreed and hopefully all the people who derided the clubs position on this will then stand up and apologise to Tan and the club for the disgraceful way they behaved over a matter where it has become obvious that the real villainy lies elsewhere.
Agreed, easy to say pay it when it's not their money!
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PontBlue
What this episode has shown is that Fifa needs to get a grip of transfers and put rules in place. You have some organisations saying he's our player and others saying he isn't. The whole situation is a mess
There are rules in place I think, it's just some clubs jump the gun, like saying look at my new house just before completion. They are just trying to time things to make the fans happy.
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Re: Club suing Willie McKay
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
There are rules in place I think, it's just some clubs jump the gun, like saying look at my new house just before completion. They are just trying to time things to make the fans happy.
I understand where you are coming from regarding clubs announcing signings before pen is put to paper but this situation appears to have some organisations saying the transfer is complete and others saying it isn't, possibly due to an issue with a piece of paperwork.
What this show is there aren't clear rules in place that all stakeholders must adhere to which is allowing some to wriggle out of responsibilities and allowing lawyers to coin it in.