Miners Strike 1984 , Channel 4

Blatant lies from thatchers police boot boys

Hundreds of miners injured by mounted police who charged into a crowd protesting

Crowd then attack police .....and fair enough .....police then arrest and charge miners saying the police had been initially attacked by miners with bricks

48 miners charged with riot

Police footage obtained by miners lawyers shows police charged at miners before any missiles were thrown and provoked the miners

Police chiefs sent a prepared statement for the police on the ground to use as a basis for their statements ......highly illegal and by chance the prepared statement .....which several coppers refused to use ......there are plenty of good coppers ......exactly mirrored the behaviour needed to be charged with a riot offence 😂......

Lies all round , fed to the media , who as usual sucked up

Court ......throws out all charges , miners innocent

South Yorkshire Police .......?

No copper to this day ever arrested

Orgreave Truth And Justice Campaign:

https://otjc.org.uk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Orgreave Truth And Justice Campaign:

https://otjc.org.uk

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God bless em

The enemy within

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Blatant lies from thatchers police boot boys

Hundreds of miners injured by mounted police who charged into a crowd protesting

Crowd then attack police .....and fair enough .....police then arrest and charge miners saying the police had been initially attacked by miners with bricks

48 miners charged with riot

Police footage obtained by miners lawyers shows police charged at miners before any missiles were thrown and provoked the miners

Police chiefs sent a prepared statement for the police on the ground to use as a basis for their statements ......highly illegal and by chance the prepared statement .....which several coppers refused to use ......there are plenty of good coppers ......exactly mirrored the behaviour needed to be charged with a riot offence 😂......

Lies all round , fed to the media , who as usual sucked up

Court ......throws out all charges , miners innocent

South Yorkshire Police .......?

No copper to this day ever arrested

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yeaaay saint Margaret saved the world from co2 man made global warming!!!

Who closed more mines Labour or conservative?


Clement Attlee's Labour closed 101 pits 1947 - 1951; (yep Labour started the the trend )

Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits 1957 - 63;

Wilson (Labour) got jealous of old Mac and closed 253 ( 1964 and 1976;) well done that man as he forges into the lead.

Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 - 74; nice fella

Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115 she had no chance of beating Labours magnificent closure performances.

( didn't Labour do well)

If Greta had been in charge she'd close them all in a single week even if miners were glueing themselves to their pits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by + the native hipster

yeaaay saint Margaret saved the world from co2 man made global warming!!!

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She actually gave the first major speach by any leading politician in 1989 well before the current ftuit loops werd born.

Climate Change History - Margaret Thatcher - Speech on Global Environment to UN (1989)
YouTube · NV atCEPImperial
21 Sept 2013

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/2rZW4KDyTK5ZcWd4/

I haven't had enough coffee.

All scargill needed to do was have a vote- and he never did
He did manage to keep his grace and favour home in Marble Arch London for life
Ps Harold Wilson closed more pits than thatcher, but don’t let that spoil your narrative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

All scargill needed to do was have a vote- and he never did
He did manage to keep his grace and favour home in Marble Arch London for life
Ps Harold Wilson closed more pits than thatcher, but don’t let that spoil your narrative.

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it's all gone quiet over there, oh it's all gone quiet over there, oh it's gone quiet, all gone quiet, it's all gone quiet over there. Ps I have no idea if it's correct but it's all gone quiet over there. 😂😂😂😂😂

Taxi driver died (murdered) during the dispute, left 6 year old daughter and his partner pregnant at the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

All scargill needed to do was have a vote- and he never did
He did manage to keep his grace and favour home in Marble Arch London for life
Ps Harold Wilson closed more pits than thatcher, but don’t let that spoil your narrative.

---

A national member vote might have been the right move but the NUM used its rules and the delegate structure to reach decisions. It was reluctant to go outside its rule book to satisfy the Daily Mail, Margaret Thatcher or Neil Kinnock (none of whom would have been satisfied). Maybe a PR error - and one that has been argued over for nearly 40 years. My view is that when you tear up your own rules to placate hostile external actors you have to keep doing that and lose control of your own organisation and actions (as Corbyn found out to his cost)!

Yes Scargill’s retention of the London flat is indefensible. It was a facility for the General Secretary of the NUM not a private gift.

We have been over the Wilson and Thatcher pit closures across many threads and many months. Situations and intentions totally different. There have always been pit closures (and in the past new pits opened) on economic and technical grounds. The Thatcher closure programme was driven by neither - it was political. She set out to crush the NUM and punish the communities that supported the union. She eventually succeeded but it was never about economics or clean energy. Anyone who claims that is taking the piss!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

A national member vote might have been the right move but the NUM used its rules and the delegate structure to reach decisions. It was reluctant to go outside its rule book to satisfy the Daily Mail, Margaret Thatcher or Neil Kinnock (none of whom would have been satisfied). Maybe a PR error - and one that has been argued over for nearly 40 years. My view is that when you tear up your own rules to placate hostile external actors you have to keep doing that and lose control of your own organisation and actions (as Corbyn found out to his cost)!

Yes Scargill’s retention of the London flat is indefensible. It was a facility for the General Secretary of the NUM not a private gift.

We have been over the Wilson and Thatcher pit closures across many threads and many months. Situations and intentions totally different. There have always been pit closures (and in the past new pits opened) on economic and technical grounds. The Thatcher closure programme was driven by neither - it was political. She set out to crush the NUM and punish the communities that supported the union. She eventually succeeded but it was never about economics or clean energy. Anyone who claims that is taking the piss!

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Wasn't she a visionary of climate change? 😂

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

Wasn't she a visionary of climate change? ��

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She made a green speech to the United Nations General Assembly in 1989.

She was not 'a visionary of climate change'.

She did not set out to crush the NUM so that the UK could reduce its carbon footprint.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

A national member vote might have been the right move but the NUM used its rules and the delegate structure to reach decisions. It was reluctant to go outside its rule book to satisfy the Daily Mail, Margaret Thatcher or Neil Kinnock (none of whom would have been satisfied). Maybe a PR error - and one that has been argued over for nearly 40 years. My view is that when you tear up your own rules to placate hostile external actors you have to keep doing that and lose control of your own organisation and actions (as Corbyn found out to his cost)!

Yes Scargill’s retention of the London flat is indefensible. It was a facility for the General Secretary of the NUM not a private gift.

We have been over the Wilson and Thatcher pit closures across many threads and many months. Situations and intentions totally different. There have always been pit closures (and in the past new pits opened) on economic and technical grounds. The Thatcher closure programme was driven by neither - it was political. She set out to crush the NUM and punish the communities that supported the union. She eventually succeeded but it was never about economics or clean energy. Anyone who claims that is taking the piss!

---

Ted Heath asked who Governs Britain in 1974 in the midst of a miners strike and Britain said not you and elected a minority Labour Government which increased that majority a few months later. I reckon the plan to crush the miners and the mining communities in 1984 was at least ten years in the making.

In 1983 I was arrested at a minor strike or more correctly lock out in north Gwent. The workforce was 90% women. I and others were there to lend our support. The police turned out one Saturday, beat the sh1t out of us and arrested a handful of us including me, my wife and brother in law. They put the latter's 15 year old girlfriend in hospital. We hadn't seen anything like it until the following year. They were very dark times when I couldn't see how things, were going to be resolved by democratic, peaceful means. Obviously Thatcher had the same thought.

I to was beaten up by a copper - quite badly in the late 80's after I was accused of throwing mud at his parents house. No idea what or why he thought it was me - but it wasnt. The tried to arrest me but the duty sergeant told him to leave it - I was 15/16 at the time. I know all too well what 'some' coppers can be like and know all to well the intimidation used by the NUM local leaders at anyone who dared to say they wanted to work or enough was enough (my old man was a union 'firebrand').
Both sides were politically motivated - and if you ever have a situation where a union can bring down a Govt then the country has serious problems - which is why we have democracy / votes and elections - something which the NUM at the time didnt want to have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

A national member vote might have been the right move but the NUM used its rules and the delegate structure to reach decisions. It was reluctant to go outside its rule book to satisfy the Daily Mail, Margaret Thatcher or Neil Kinnock (none of whom would have been satisfied). Maybe a PR error - and one that has been argued over for nearly 40 years. My view is that when you tear up your own rules to placate hostile external actors you have to keep doing that and lose control of your own organisation and actions (as Corbyn found out to his cost)!

Yes Scargill’s retention of the London flat is indefensible. It was a facility for the General Secretary of the NUM not a private gift.

We have been over the Wilson and Thatcher pit closures across many threads and many months. Situations and intentions totally different. There have always been pit closures (and in the past new pits opened) on economic and technical grounds. The Thatcher closure programme was driven by neither - it was political. She set out to crush the NUM and punish the communities that supported the union. She eventually succeeded but it was never about economics or clean energy. Anyone who claims that is taking the piss!

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Wilson closed more pits than Thatcher - whatever either of their reasons for doing was. It is well documented and something that most seem to forget - especially on here. But there you are ... it's only a football forum not a serious political site afterall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Ted Heath asked who Governs Britain in 1974 in the midst of a miners strike and Britain said not you and elected a minority Labour Government which increased that majority a few months later. I reckon the plan to crush the miners and the mining communities in 1984 was at least ten years in the making.

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It was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

All scargill needed to do was have a vote- and he never did
He did manage to keep his grace and favour home in Marble Arch London for life
Ps Harold Wilson closed more pits than thatcher, but don’t let that spoil your narrative.

---

No he didn't

But don't let that spoil your narrative

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

it's all gone quiet over there, oh it's all gone quiet over there, oh it's gone quiet, all gone quiet, it's all gone quiet over there. Ps I have no idea if it's correct but it's all gone quiet over there. 😂😂😂😂😂

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I have been shagging all weekend

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

Taxi driver died (murdered) during the dispute, left 6 year old daughter and his partner pregnant at the time.

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U are turning into a silly old twat fair play

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

I to was beaten up by a copper - quite badly in the late 80's after I was accused of throwing mud at his parents house. No idea what or why he thought it was me - but it wasnt. The tried to arrest me but the duty sergeant told him to leave it - I was 15/16 at the time. I know all too well what 'some' coppers can be like and know all to well the intimidation used by the NUM local leaders at anyone who dared to say they wanted to work or enough was enough (my old man was a union 'firebrand').
Both sides were politically motivated - and if you ever have a situation where a union can bring down a Govt then the country has serious problems - which is why we have democracy / votes and elections - something which the NUM at the time didnt want to have.

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Buy that copper a beer

[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5487174]U are turning into a silly old twat fair play[/QUOTE

A silly old twat with his innate immunity intact, you appear to be suffering the effects of your 6th booster.

[QUOTE=Heathblue;5487330]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

U are turning into a silly old twat fair play[/QUOTE

A silly old twat with his innate immunity intact, you appear to be suffering the effects of your 6th booster.

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He's off to Rwanda to take the place of a sex offender from Afghanistan. He doesnt like living with Tories in Cowbridge anymore apparently - so like a good working class hero he's doing his bit - giving up his place in the vale to let someone else live there.
There is less to evans than you think, much less..

[QUOTE=pipster;5487343]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

He's off to Rwanda to take the place of a sex offender from Afghanistan. He doesnt like living with Tories in Cowbridge anymore apparently - so like a good working class hero he's doing his bit - giving up his place in the vale to let someone else live there.
There is less to evans than you think, much less..

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Ass

I don't know any Tories, I don't have any in my social circle

Why would I spend any of my time associating with arseholes like you ?

I would rather stick pins in my bollocks

[QUOTE=Heathblue;5487330]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

U are turning into a silly old twat fair play[/QUOTE

A silly old twat with his innate immunity intact, you appear to be suffering the effects of yy our 6th booster.

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You are becoming more and more of a miserable right wing old fool by the day

You should take the place of quentin letts in the daily mail

[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5487350]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

Ass

I don't know any Tories, I don't have any in my social circle

Why would I spend any of my time associating with arseholes like you ?

I would rather stick pins in my bollocks

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You do spend time with Tories, as for sticking pins in your bollocks that is probably the only form of gratification you get, and you love it.

[QUOTE=pipster;5487358]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You do spend time with Tories, as for sticking pins in your bollocks that is probably the only form of gratification you get, and you love it.

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Who ?

Name em

I don't associate with any Tories

Yet another thread that descends into the level of the infants school playground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Yet another thread that descends into the level of the infants school playground.

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The Tories started it first.

[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5487351]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

You are becoming more and more of a miserable right wing old fool by the day

You should take the place of quentin letts in the daily mail

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Right wing
Daily mail
Farrrrrrrr rigghhhhhht

If i was any of these, it's because of the farrrrrrr left, crime apologists, rape, & child molesting perverts that you seem to gravitate towards, Just **** off, leave it there, I'll not bother you again & please do not bother me again.

[QUOTE=Heathblue;5487414][QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5487351]

Right wing
Daily mail
Farrrrrrrr rigghhhhhht

If i was any of these, it's because of the farrrrrrr left, crime apologists, rape, & child molesting perverts that you seem to gravitate towards, Just **** off, leave it there, I'll not bother you again & please do not bother me

Child molesting perverts? you silly old fart go to bed

In case you wondered, 290 mines closed under Wilson in all his time in office, and about 160 under Thatcher. :wave:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

In case you wondered, 290 mines closed under Wilson in all his time in office, and about 160 under Thatcher. :wave:

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And your point is?

Earlier up the thread you claimed this (Wilson closed more pits than Thatcher) would spoil someone's narrative. It doesn't.

I don't recognise the pit closure figures you quote (they seem to be a bit inflated for both Wilson and Thatcher) but no one disputes Wilson 'closed more pits' (although not as many as McMillan).

The point is Wilson closed pits because the world was moving from coal to oil and gas - for domestic heating as well as shipping and a large part of energy generation. Where coal was still needed (increasingly not the high quality coal of the South Wales field) it was starting to be offered much more cheaply from eastern Europe and China.

In some cases coalfield production was picked up by more efficient adjacent pits in better locations (and the jobs moved there) and in a few cases whole new pits were opened. But generally decisions on pit closures were made on economic or technical grounds and in the context of the international energy market.

Thatchers pit closure programme was not driven by those factors. It wasn't at the time primarily economic (there may have been more of a case for that 10 years later) and it certainly wasn't what the Tory press comically now describe as her green agenda. It was a programme of political destruction aimed at crushing the NUM, their families and their communities - and a TOBW said above, was a decade in the planning.

So your point is......?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

And your point is?
So your point is......?

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My point is a there is no difference between a pit being closed under Wilson than there was under Thatcher (you seem to think there was). A closed pit is a closed pit, except that Wilson did more of them than Thatcher.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

My point is a there is no difference between a pit being closed under Wilson than there was under Thatcher (you seem to think there was). A closed pit is a closed pit, except that Wilson did more of them than Thatcher.

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I can recall the Conservatives effective “Britain isn’t working” poster from the 1979 election, but the “We’ll close less mines than Labour” one escapes me for the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

My point is a there is no difference between a pit being closed under Wilson than there was under Thatcher (you seem to think there was). A closed pit is a closed pit, except that Wilson did more of them than Thatcher.

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You slip on the ice and bang your head.

Someone mugs you and kicks you unconscious as you lie on the ground.

A bang on the head is a bang on the head. No difference!

Thank you for that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pipster

My point is a there is no difference between a pit being closed under Wilson than there was under Thatcher (you seem to think there was). A closed pit is a closed pit, except that Wilson did more of them than Thatcher.

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Your point is bollocks

Thatcher closed pits for political reasons

Which is why she stockpiled loads of coal before the strike started

If we didn't need the coal .....which she said we didn't......why did we have people starving on picket lines because the government had decided that coal wasn't wanted......yet loads shipped in via Hull kept industry going

You are a clown