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...from a man whose missus didn’t pay tax to the UK and also held a green card for the USA so he can scuttle off if needed.
Is it me or does anyone else think Sunak has no intention of winning this election?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpddxy9r4mdo
We are going to reduce proper troop numbers and send lots of youngsters to their certain deathsQuote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
Pretty common across the beloved EU.
What's wrong with service? Don't we all believe in society?
Good idea I think.
I am not a fan of volunteering younger generations to do things that I wasn't expected to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
What happen when invariably some young people just say '**** off'? The spectator article touches upon this very point.
Quote:
There are also questions of practicality. Would the government arrest those that don’t comply? In the internal briefing Q and A, this is one of the questions – the suggestion is that there will be an incentives regime but they do not rule out the prospect
Is that what his plan was, to increase defence spending, all along? Not new types of weapon systems, but putting kids through National Service for a year?
Bet he's disappointed that he's running again, as it would be much easier for him to not stand, and bugger off like many others.
No this is from another branch of the magic money tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bloop
I’d prefer that some of the reported £2.5 billion per year needed to send my kids on someone else’s jolly was used to perhaps keep youth clubs open in the UK so some kids have these opportunities within society. If they got £2.5 billion a year to spunk how about helping out with some apprenticeships or education etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I wonder how many kids attending Eaton and Harrow get conscripted?
If you ask me this is the strongest evidence yet that rishi really, really doesn’t want to win this election. Strange
Real desperation stuff. Will appeal to old right wingers and those who blame everything on the youth of today or immigrants.
A nation's armed services are best served by enthusiastic volunteers who seek longer term training and expertise rather than drafting in disaffected individuals on a short-term basis and who may baulk at their own government's questionable military activities in some parts of the world.
I wonder how long this cunning plan has been in the works?
How much time has gone into working it through, costing it, and testing the assumptions?
It sounds as if it is something that just popped into Sunak's head that morning.
Something that might get a few days positive headlines from the brain dead at the Express - then die as it deserves.
It's bizarre. Pretty much ensures no votes from the younger electorate, even had they been inclined to vote Tory beforehand.
Our country doesn’t need a large military. We need a skilled one. We’re an island surrounded by allies. In the extremely unlikely event we get invaded, having 1 trained pilot or navy gunner will be worth more than 1000 young lads with rifles lined up on the cliffs of Dover who would rather be anywhere else.
As for weekend volunteering, I used to do that as part of DofE through my local youth centre. That, and several others near me, closed down years ago due to lack of funds. Shame that.
This should have been introduced years ago, starting with any politicians kids. However they are talking about cyber security and things like that rather picking up a gun
You just know the selection process for anything remotely useful or interesting will be completely corrupt. Rich kids/kids with connections will either get the cushy roles or pay the fine and poorer kids will be slave labour doing mundane shit that doesnt help them in the slightest.Quote:
Originally Posted by pipster
Check out Cyber Wales - they help ex squaddies convert their comms skills into cyber ones and find them jobs. Surname, status, Dad's job are of no relevance. What does matter is attitude and if you think differently - ie neuro divergent - which is usually people on the spectrum that people used to call thick. These people are now actively sought out for comp sec work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Wonderful, good scheme but of no relevance whatsoever to this discussion because of size/nature of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pipster
There will be limited places in the more interesting/useful roles and I do not think that the sons and daughters of wealthy/powerful people will be wiping arses in the local hospital.
cyber wales is yes (your right) just for cyber work in Wales. There are similar clusters all over the UK and NI.
How do you actually know kids or their parents wont want this for their kids - a bit of humility , giving something back etc
Sounds to me like you are perhaps one of those parents that thinks their kids wont be wiping arses in the local hospital. So Im not sure whether you are for or against it - which is it ?
Yep it’s almost as if they are doing all they can to lose? What a turnaround from last time when Labour did the worst they ever have?Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost
Def time for a change….this country has plummeted in the last 15 years.
They can already encourage that and should be.. This scheme makes it mandatory. Are you against freedom and personal choice of adults? It is worth remembering that we are talking about adults here, what their parents want is largely irrelevant but that doesn't mean parents won't be using their connections to get them a cushy route through it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pipster
One of the best ways to contribute to society and your local community is to forge a career in public service in for example health or education. Unfortunately wider economic conditions, house prices and wages make this very difficult in certain parts of the country.
The gall of this.
On call fire fighting, special constables, emergency health responder, just some of the roles unpaid teenagers would be doing.
Just another way to cut public spending to help billionaires keep more of their money.
it's a gimmick and volunteery.
We need a professional army.
Look what happened to Russia's conscripts.Slaughtered in their 1000s.
It’s Cameron’s Big Society again,but more stupid from the Government point of view. The Big Society would have been dirt cheap to administer if it had worked, this is costing £2.5 billion, at least.
Where did you see that they would be doing any of the tasks you mention?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
Well it should at least wake up the youngsters who don’t vote. Another pie in the sky idea from a spent government. It will also go down well in the north as its levelling up money to be used. Oh and they have now discovered there are people not paying tax, their own donors. Is there anyone apart from the Daily Heil mob who will appreciate this farce?
There is little debate to be had with Mr D - he will conflate anything to suit his political opinion (he likes to be outraged...it's his thing) , it usually goes back to Thatcher's fault, you'll get the same the 'factory'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
Your teenager, the one heading off to Blackpool away with his mates last year ,would be in the frame in a couple of years. Have you discussed this latest wheeze with him and what does he think?Quote:
Originally Posted by pipster
It's an idiotic idea and I agree if it doesn't boot the sixth form students out of bed on election day then nothing willQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blue
Do you want your son doing national service ?Quote:
Originally Posted by pipster
Does he ?
I’m not aware of what happened in the 1950’s, although James Cleverly this morning says it is not that type of National Service. What happens to those 17/18 year olds who have managed to get employment, or a college/university place? Will their job be kept open, and could employers be reticent to employ 17 year olds knowing they’re going to lose them when they’re 18? If their university degree course is delayed by a year, similarly will their place be kept. Graduates would then have their hoped for earnings delayed by a year. What would the impact of the latter have on the property market and even inflation? They’ve not really thought this through have they…
Kids have just spent 13+ years in compulsory education, preparing them for the a working life. Many do voluntary work in 6th form, or join a cadet force if they're interested in the military. What's to be gained by delaying kids joining the big wide world?
It's bollocks
It's about desperately trying to cling on to the right wing vote
Immigrants , benefits , lazy youngsters
Maybe they can get Argentina to invade the Falklands again
That certainly saved thatchers arse
Sludge - its bollox, the election is over, you mention Argentina - Im sure Sir Keir will find his 'Iraq'. As for your alter ego Dorcus - my son will be doing A levels in comp sec, it's a module on the course, as is red teaming (look it up).Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
That policy is to get the red trouser brigade out and vote - great idea - wont affect the result
Dorcus - already spoke to my son about it - thanks, we are of the same opinion, yeah he would do service. But Im sure as you know - these days cyber is where it's at, cozy bear is the go to of choice in terms of technique (go look him up as well)
sleep well
Think you mean Doucas.Quote:
Originally Posted by pipster
Good to see that they are all on message on this well planned initiative.
From today's Guardian
The pledge was launched just two days after the defence minister Andrew Murrison said that the government had no plans for national service in “any form” because it would do more harm than good.
In an answer to a written parliamentary question, Murrison said placing “potentially unwilling” recruits with professional soldiers “could damage morale, recruitment and retention and would consume professional military and naval resources”.
He added that if, on the other hand, temporary recruits were kept separate “it would be difficult to find a proper and meaningful role for them, potentially harming motivation and discipline”.
Usual dismissive comments here.
I don't see what is so wrong with it? It is common in many countries and could be a great way to provide training and meaning for many young people who in my experience are struggling in many cases with feeling valued, part of a community, and might welcome the opportunity to upskill etc
Many here would turn their nose up at the Duke of Edinburgh awards no doubt (posh royalists patronising working class kids blah blah blah).
It's an election gimmick, for sure, most of what both parties are saying at the moment is, but it's not a bad idea in principle at all.
The irony is, I bet a lot of the people moaning would gladly see the benefit of training and experience for their own kids, they just don't seem to want it for others?
The broader point for me is that what we seem to be seeing so far is Sunak surrounding himself with an inner circle of advisors because he may distrust a wider spectrum of opinion and challenge (and potential leaking) within the wider party.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
So we get rabbits coming out of hats that are wrong footing a broader section of the party. It happened with the announcement of the election date and now this. I can't give an alternative explanation for a Defence Minister dissing National Service so starkly in a Parliamentary answer a few days before a "flagship" policy proposing the same is revealed to the world.
Manifesto commitments for all parties will come under unyielding scrutiny from the opposition and the media in the coming weeks. If the National Service policy, which may or may not be a good idea suffers because of the way it was constructed and the speed with which it was brought forward due to an accelerated election timetable then Sunak will only have himself and the inner circle to blame.
Do you disagree with the Tories over anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Loads. But not really on this. And I am certainly open minded to hearing more about itQuote:
Originally Posted by stevo
Don't disagree. But you've chosen to focus on the messaging there, and I would agree that it's all a bit chaotic across the board - again, on all sides - as they are all getting caught out and contradicting eachother.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
I'm instead focusing on being fairly open minded on it, recognising that I think it would provide a great opportunity for many younger people and perhaps help to bring society together a little.
I think anything said in an election is typically Ill thought out and chaotic, but I do think in principle, depending how it was implemented, it's a good thing.