https://youtu.be/x8gglMQWfpQ?si=4pwLaG0hj0OggrAe
Printable View
Interesting.
Treading water. Totally dependent on Tan to keep putting money in, and converting debt to equity.
Costs seem to be coming under more control even if revenues (apart from commercial) are a bit sickly.
As always I look forward to reading Keith's comment (if any) on that lot.
How much has been earned over the same period?Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Sky Tv and parachute payments from 2013/14 to now will be more than 200 million….we are never going to come close to breaking even with the mgt structure we have though are we? When I watch family guy, Peter always reminds me of TanQuote:
Originally Posted by NinianKnight
I agree. The £200m spend seems a bit low considering we have had 2 stints in the PL and the rest in the Championship. We must have earned far more than £200m over that period and it has all been weed against the wall plus a further £70m or more in debts.Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
Not sure how accurate this is?
A few estimates but may be interesting for some of you who like this type of thing.
Lots of debt written off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8gglMQWfpQ
Swansea's situation according to the same lot?Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JozK-aDbX8
Ah sorry I missed that one!Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Just quickly watched the Swansea one, as we thought they are in decline and have kept going so far on player sales.
The Colin algorithm really does stand out.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
Imagine where we could be now if that money had been spent more wisely.
Alternatively , imagine we were Everton ......Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Honest question, is there any team who has spent a similar amount of time in the championship who hasn’t made similar losses over the time period?
I guess you can say the disappointing thing is we didn’t spend the Prem/parachute payment money in a more sensible way both times, but the impression I get is everyone at the Championship level who doesn’t stick into the Prem is losing these kinds of sums every year?
I can guarantee you that if we didn’t spend money during our promotion years we would have marches on the street chanting for Tan out.Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Bluebird
Hindsight is wonderful and our transfers could have turned into gems.
Would it be fair to also suggest that our regular failures in the transfer market and Tan doing what he wants regardless of advice has contributed heavily to our reliance on Tan?Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Of course, look what he spent it on last time moreover how much. The only decent signing was Bobby Reid who we never played and sold on. A crazy waste of about £40 million, even madder to think Warnock almost kept us up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
It would be fair to say that, although 'Tan doing what he wants' hasn't had such an impact since the reversal of the rebranding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
I suppose managerial decisions are the main issue - where Tan definitely makes the final call - but even there it has been a mixed bag, not wall-to-wall failures.
I'm not convinced that Cardiff is much different from the majority of Championship clubs when it comes to recruitment. Most clubs' fans think they fail in the transfer market. We have clearly struggled to bring in strikers who can score goals since the Jay-Chops days (apart from Kaba on loan), although some of them have been quite effective even if they couldn't get into double figures for goals.
Where I think there are clear signs of emerging success (with positive implications for squad quality and the bottom line) is the Academy. There is still a blizzard of criticism - especially on one of the other boards - but I think this pre-season is evidence of major progress. There is a good chance of seeing R Colwill, Davies, King and Bagan joined by J Colwill, Ashford, Conte and maybe one or two others in this season's first team squad.
Haven't there also been several academy players signed by top Premier League clubs in the last couple of years which, although not good for improving the squad, is good for income generation.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
If this were any normal business then these figures would be horrifying, but for a championship club we are basically pretty average.
Yes we're treading water in the hopes that we luck our way into another season or two in the premier league at some point.
The positive for me is we are currently able to tread water without basically any significant income from player sales.
Hopefully this *seems* to be something that the club has realised they need to do better on - and they have started to take tentative steps in that direction, just we haven't seen any significant reward from that *yet*.
If Wintle is sold at anything close to his value then we should see a tidy profit.
Likewise if we were to sell Ng, or McGuinness.
Buying cheap players with potential to increase in value is something we just didn't do for a number of years.
Couple that with the investment in the youth players (both in terms of money spent in the academy, and playing time for young prospects), means we have youngsters like Colwill, Davies et al who we could sell today for a decent amount of money - and if any of them have a real break out season then that amount would increase massively.
So once this change in policy starts to bear fruit it *should* improve our financial situation - unfortunately nowhere near enough to close the gap between the also-rans and the parachute payment recipients in this division. If we had used the premier league money to make this kind of investment when we had that kind of financial advantage, then we would be in a much better place today, but it was all squandered sadly.
I hope you're right, but I'm not convinced. Squad maybe, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if any of the above become genuine first regulars under Bulut.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
That is a valid argument, but it leaves out the bit that Tan is still here picking up the tab. There are plenty of examples e.g. Derby where an owner has acted recklessly and disappeared with consequence being paid by the club they leave behindQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
People continually saying that Tan is a useless owner and needs to go should just bear in mind that if he did, we would be immediately bankrupt.
Not necessarily: we could be purchased at a more realistic price by far more professional and ambitious owners. That wouldn't be terribly difficult to achieve so where's the requirement for bankruptcy?Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
You should bear in mind that Cardiff City was an established Championship club well before Vincent Tan arrived. He didn’t elevate the club its current position.Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
You should also bear in mind that Vincent Tan isn’t the only wealthy man in the world.
It was a fair point raised by dml. If a company is in debt and cannot pay what is owed, then bankruptcy is an option. Tan has his debts secured against the assets of CCFC and if the club went bankrupt, he would have first call on their value. Of course, if he were to receive an offer for the club which would pocket him more than bankrupting the club then he would most likely take that option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
I would also add it is not guaranteed that we would be purchased by a 'far more professional and ambitious owner'.
Shows how shit the entire thing is. Tan can make endless cock ups that keep costing the club money, yet he could bankrupt us, when it is him calling the shots.Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
They were still in the Premier last I looked with a brand spanking, shiny new 56000 capacity stadium opening soon. Yes imagine we were Everton...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
Alternatively, imagine we were Brighton...
I'd also like to add it is not guaranteed we wouldn't be purchased by a far more professional and ambitious owner. In fact I think the balance of probabilities indicates we likely would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinianKnight
Sometimes it's better to view the future with optimism and not dither beset by negativity.
I think those who believe the club would automatically fold without Vincent Tan are suffering from a form of Stockholm Syndrome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Absolutely agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Probably correct but we would have to live within our means which would curtail our spending power. Under FFP (or whatever it is called now) an owner can put in up to £13m per season. Our turnover is around £24m, so in theory we can spend up to £37m per season with Tan's imput.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Not sure the balance of probabilities is a good argument. Generally new owners get a honeymoon period before the wheels fall off the wagon and we have seen that plenty of times here and at other clubs. Take the rebrand away and Tan has been a relatively good custodian compared to what we had previously. I am not against new ownership, but I certainly don't want one of those American hedge fundsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
The wheels dont always fall off and I disagree with your opinion of Tan. However the main point of the difference is ambition. I'm not happy settling for 3rd best for Cardiff City with a lame duck board and dictator. Hope springs eternal and should fire us all.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinianKnight
Can you name any owners out of the 92 clubs that are better than Tan then as I can’t think of many?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Tony Bloom at Brighton? Matthew Benham at Brentford? Shahid Khan at Fulham? Steve Gibson at Middlesbrough? Delia Smith and her husband at Norwich? Those American fellas at Wrexham? I guess it depends what your personal criteria for a good football club owner is.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
As I said I can’t think of many and clearly neither can you. A few boro fans I know are losing patience with Gibson ,and the premier league owners are happy when the club is stable in the Division but this can change . Any others as I had those ones in mind. Fleetwoods owner is decent according to a mate of mine who lives there
To be honest, I don’t pay enough attention to football these days to know who owns most of the 92 clubs or what they have or haven’t done for their clubs. The ones I mentioned were off the top of my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
As I said, I guess it really depends what your personal criteria is. Like you, I can’t think of many football club owners who are better than Vincent Tan, but that’s mainly because I can’t think of many football club owners. And that’s despite the fact that I detest Vincent Tan.
Why do you detest him so much , yes he changed the colour but he changed it back , and he does things differently to what most would expect but in Malaysia they operate differently to models in the UK and the culture in business is extremely different to here.This can often be misconstrued. He’s just an owner of a football club that as you say will survive without him ( unless we fail to pay the HMRC, get relegated for outstanding transfer fees, non payment of wages etc etc )Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman