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Supporters Trust Meeting with Mehmet Dalman and Ken Choo, 26th September 2024
Present: Mehmet Dalman, Ken Choo, CCST Board Members and FAB members Mike Weedon, Vince Alm and Kieran Jones
Dear Member,
You will recall from our email to you of Monday, 23 September, after the dismissal of Erol Bulut I mentioned that I would be seeking for the Trust Board to meet with the club to discuss how the club is intending to move forward. At 10.00 am yesterday, I had a notification that my request was acceded to and the meeting was scheduled for 4.00 pm via Zoom. Had I had more notice than just six hours I would have emailed all members to ask them for questions so that I might represent your views but the short notice rendered it impossible. For inclusivity purposes, I invited 3 members of the FAB so that other Fans Groups could participate.
The discussion broadly covered the following issues
· The dismissal of Erol Bulut
· Football Expertise at Boardroom Level
· Strategic objectives and Communication with the Fanbase
· Appointment of a new Manager
Erol Bulut – MD stated that the dismissal of Erol Bulut was based purely on results and he takes full responsibility for the situation that has arisen.He stated that all was well in the Dressing Room. He explained that a rigorous recruitment process took place for his appointment with long and short lists in place. He was hoping that a period of stability and continuity would have arisen from his appointment. Reference was made about opportunities for youngsters under Bulut. MD considered that young players had developed better under Bulut that any other manager but he did not believe it was appropriate for him to interfere in the manager's team selection decisions.
Football Expertise at Board Level– Keith Morgan stated that, yet again, we were without a manager and it was now 12 managers have been dismissed since Vincent Tan became the owner of the Club and it appears that we lurch from crisis to crisis. MD stated that he did not see the current situation as a crisis. Keith said that it was an opinion widely held amongst the fanbase that the absence of Football Expertise at Board Level was a significant shortcoming. Keith also referred to the lack of a full time Executive Director in the Boardroom. MD said that he had raised the question of a Director of Football today with Vincent Tan. He reiterated that VT is still to be convinced of the necessity to appoint one. Mehmet has stated clearly in the past that this is a situation that needs to be resolved and still seems favourably disposed towards such an appointment but it is clear who the final decision rests with.
A question was raised by Kieran Jones concerning the need to appoint a full-time Chief Executive and Chief Operating Officer. Ken Choo stated that his commitment to running the Club was 100% and all the directors dealt with Club issues at all hours. He also referred to the commitment and professionalism of the Club Finance Director and Secretary who are key members of staff. KC also explained how the Recruitment Team had been increased to 4 and the fact that they are now utilising several software applications to assist with player recruitment and analysis. This capability is regarded as key in moving the club forward.
Strategic Objectives– Keith Morgan and Mike Weedon asked about the Club's overall strategy and whether there was one. MD said that there was a clear plan to get promoted back to the Premier League and off the pitch everything is in place but on the pitch evidently not. KC emphasised the extent to which the Club had invested in the Academy and the new training ground. He believes, with some justification, that we currently have the best crop of youngsters since his time at the club. He also referred to the problem of Premier League clubs poaching the best talent. He said they had made numerous representations at EFL level regarding this as had other Clubs but so far to no avail.
Reference was made to Category A status, but KC said that such a status would not protect the club from predatory Premier League teams and the additional cost was not justifiable.
All Fans Reps were unanimous in respect of the failings of the Club to communicate with the Fanbase in respect of the "big picture". Both MD and KC took on board that criticism and said that they would investigate publishing a regular newsletter that would allow the Club to provide a greater insight into its plans and activities on and off the pitch.
KM asked about the current involvement of Vincent Tan in the running of the Club. Both MD and KC stated clearly that he was emotionally and financially fully invested in the club. He had been very supportive in the last transfer window and they confirmed that the departure of Mark McGuinness to Luton was as a result of the player wishing to leave rather than a demand of the owner. Contact with Vincent Tan on Club matters occurred on a daily basis at all hours.
Appointment of a New Manager – Vince Alm asked about the process and timescale for the appointment of a new manager. MD said that there would be no "knee-jerk" appointment but the process would be followed. It was stated the club is using external advisors in the process, these advisors include one of the largest Football Agencies in Europe together with two very experienced former and unnamed football managers. These advisors will help in preparing recommendations for a shortlist.
KC mentioned that a detailed file would be compiled on each candidate, and this would include the use of detailed data analytical review of all aspects of each candidate which will aid the recruitment process. The shortlisted candidates would be subject to interview and then a recommendation made to the owner.
The meeting ended after an hour with both Mehmet Dalman and Ken Choo stating they were always open for such discussions in the future and they were thanked for their willingness to meet and discuss the current situation with Fans reps.
The question of the absence of football expertise at Board level was pressed by all parties as a matter of concern. Both MD and KC went to great lengths to explain how that gap is covered in the running of Cardiff City. However, it is my view that the absence of such expertise is a hindrance to the full progression of the club. It came as somewhat of surprise to be told that there was a grand strategy in place for the Club as we were not aware of it and it was conceded by the Club that communication is not in line with Fans' expectations.
It seems to me that there is more to such a strategy than a desire to get back to the Premier League backed by an effective Academy (which it seems to be), a new training ground and committed staff and owner but further detail of such a plan would be the subject of a meeting in itself. The detail provided of the appointment process for a new manager was informative and the lengths to which the Club are going to secure external assistance in hiring a new manager only seems to underline that absence of specific expertise that fans groups have been calling for. The impartiality of the external assistance will be critical.
Early in the meeting I suggested that the club seemed to be lurching from crisis to crisis and Mehmet Dalman was quick to say that he did not characterise the current situation as such. Well, bottom of the table with one point and one goal from 6 games continuing a poor end to last season one can hardly say that everything in the garden is rosy.
It is undoubtedly an embarrassment that we have dispensed with the services of a manager so soon after offering him an extended contract but the Chairman has taken full responsibility for that.
We now have a Caretaker Manager who, I imagine, will be considered along with other candidates recommended by the external advisors that the Club seem to be heavily relying on. We can only hope that a new appointment will quickly improve team performance and also try to serve up football that is more entertaining than the turgid stuff on display so far this season. Time will tell.
Keith Morgan
Chair
I agree with Keith when he asks isn’t the fact we’re using all sorts of consultants in the hiring of the new manager proof of the lack of football expertise at the club. Also, maybe I’m being too gloomy, but I think City have been in a crisis for about three years.
A strong statement at the end from the trust which is great.
Dalman, Choo and Tan is quite the trio. The fact they think they have a plan in place for us to get to the premier league is both amusing and worrying in equal measure. What planet are they living on?
I'm not sure to what extent, if any, we're going out to find the best man for the job. It seems we're dependent on applications and the maneouvres of agents.
Even after paying off 9 managers since he's been here, I don't think there's anything that can persuade Tan to get a DoF. Perhaps he's happy to hire and fire at will.
How much do fans need to know about any "grand plan" the club has? How much can they actually tell us?
FWIW, I'm still baffled that Bulut was seen as the stability candidate.
It's curious who the ex football manager advisors are and how independent are they in their recommendations. It would be naive to think nepotism isn't playing a part.
I think it's clear there is no grand plan as such, the state of the club on the pitch and how many managers we go through would elude to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
We got quite lucky with Warnock and I think we are happy to keep rolling the dice until we find someone similarly capable.
The training ground is a positive.
Warnock and McCarthy I expect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
What would you say if they didn't have a plan in place?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub
Not sure about McCarthy but definitely Warnock.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
Interesting that MD just brought up Director of Football to Tan.
Here’s hoping his mother tells him we need one. She’s the only one he listens to.
Aye I was joking, JR would have had a stiffy with McCarthy back :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Dale's Mole
I’m not sure what you mean but I feel their supposed plan is much the same as having no plan in place anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
Yeah, and is one of the consultants being "one of the largest Football Agencies in Europe" a good idea? Is it just possible they might recommend whichever coaches on their books are currently out of work?Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Also, without the club having a footballing identity and structure, what's their brief? What sort of manager can any consultant recommend if the club doesn't know what they want/need? Or are they just compiling the "detailed data analytical review of all aspects of each candidate" and letting the club choose, in which case, again, no-one in the club seems to have any idea what sort of manager we want/need?
Did we ask why when we have a limited budget and no decent fit strikers we are buying players and sending them to Tan's Belguim Club.
Are we now their feeder club?
Surprised the case against F.C. Nantes wasn’t mentioned!
All fair points, but the thing I can’t get out of my mind is that we could spend a fortune on consultants who produce a detailed, informative and authoritative report on all of the candidates and Tan will just go ahead and pick someone on a whim who, God willing, might be able sort the team out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undercoverinwurzelland
Very likelyQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
How much would a Director of Football cost Tan? If successful, how many tens of millions could this person selected make for our esteemed owner?Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Dale's Mole
Reports of previous meetings have said that Dalman has told Tan we need a director of football more than once before but Tan doesn't agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Dale's Mole
What they told the meeting hardly amounts to a plan, or strategy I think was the word usedQuote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
I think so much of this discussion relating to managers, consultants and DOF is pointless. It's always going to be Tan, Dalman and Choo appointing any of them. We cannot move forward with that team at the helm. They are the employers of any manager, consultant and DOF. What confidence do we have in any of them? It would be better if Tan replaced Dalman and Choo and moved forward on that basis first. Even then, Tan is has the final say.
He won't will he, this time he will use professionals and he will take their advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
If the professionals are as described it should work and it sounds like we could get a half-decent one this time.
If the consultant's work is good top candidates will stand out, Let's be fair we can spot them just from basic stats open to the public like win ratios etc. I'm glad they are at least giving it a good go this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undercoverinwurzelland
Lets see this as a positive, there is enough negativity about as there is :thumbup:
Correct. It's a 'To Do' list.Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardM
Fair enough. Have a go at the content of the plan by all means.Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardM
But for people to have a pop for the club having one at all is about as Cardiff as you can say. The self deprication in the hasn't left us for god knows how many years.
So, you think that at, what is it, the twelfth time of asking, they are going to be professional and thorough in their selection of a new manager? What’s so different about this time?Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
Wonder what other business you’d have the chairman openly saying in a meeting with stakeholders that he’s recommended something again and again to the owner but he doesn’t want to know.
Nothing but respect for the trust and the work they do and this isn’t a pop at them or anyone in the meeting but this basically boils down to “we think you are doing a shit job” “well we don’t think we are, what about a newsletter”. They must think we are absolute mugs.
What in particular are you referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Bluebird
Getting advice from people with a football background is a good thing on the face of it yes, but my point was that they could say "A, B and C" are all good managers, but it still relies on Tan/Dalman/Choo to decide which is the best fit, and because we don't have an identity, how do they choose?Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
Or maybe the consultants are going to come up with a football philosophy for Cardiff City too. That might not be a bad thing, depending on who they are.
Fingers crossed I think Tan may finally be thinking he needs to be more professional with Managerial appointments, God knows why it took him so long but hopefully we won't see a cheap gamble like Hudson, Morison or Harris.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undercoverinwurzelland
Maybe someone finally got through to him, or maybe he's just fed up of losing money, either way lets hope the consultants are good and he listens and learns.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
And your mate Bulut.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
Not sure I have remembered this right, but wasn’t the last time the club brought in an ex manager as a consultant (although I think he was wrongly titled Director if Football?) when Glenn Roeder was advising Tan and the Board after Ole?Quote:
Originally Posted by Undercoverinwurzelland
If I have got the chronology correct the answer then was Russell Slade.
I think most know enough about these 3 chancers to realise the “plan” is probably anything but.Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
I'm confused as to why it's a problem to debate and critique, especially when we're bottom of the league and we're the paying punters. I don't see it as self-deprecation. It's just that one person's plan is another person's knee-jerk. The notion that we've got a strategic plan and we'll get one by hiring consultants in October isn't having a pop at the club. It's also not negative. It's healthy. If something doesn't make sense from a logistical point of view then it needs calling out.Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
The clincher in this argument is that Dalman nor anyone else at the club clearly envisaged us being the proud achievers of 1 goal, 1 point and -12 GD(?). This is a crisis situation. The planning comes next season. The priority is to stay in The Championship. I fully support The Trust and the work they do but I don't trust Dalman nor do I believe much of what he says. I have little respect for any of the current board and have no confidence in their decision-making.
No consultant is going to do anything at this stage other than to look at creating a long-term strategy that benefits....the consultants. The owner is the person who should know what we want. What questions do we even start asking consultants? How do we guarantee survival in the league this season?
They won't be able to answer that. They'll be employed to look at worst case scenarios and charge several hundred £s/day to do that. These aren't just football questions they're financial ones and this scenario will be instantly recognisable to anyone who's worked 'with' consultants/management strategic planning in any corporate environment. Cardiff City FC is a private business. We can support the team but the club is fair game for criticism.
They're just now on the payroll along with the lawyers. The priority is to get the Sala money back. That's been the clear the plan for years and is still the only clear plan we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
City used Glenn Roeder in the past, obviously it isn't him now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
Former Cardiff City captain Jason Perry believes any prospective new manager must be “desperate” to consider taking charge of the Bluebirds.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/c5yjk7k80deo
Lee Tomlin vehemently disagrees :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew
Allegedly Slade is one of the former managers assisting Tan in the search
They’ve managed it twice before. God knows how !Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub