Effect of midday kickoffs on Championship attendances

Lots of comments have been made on here about the effect midday kickoffs have had on attendances this season, so I thought I'd have a look at the data. A quick note about the data used - I've used figures on worldfootball.net for average attendance figures from 2023/24 and 2024/25, so hopefully that is free of errors. I have only included the 18 clubs that took part in both last and this season's Championship, so there are no discrepancies due to relegation or promotion.

Of the 18 teams in this season's Championship that were also there last season:

Average crowds are down by a total of exactly 9,000, or an average of 500 per team. This equates to a 2.9% drop in attendances.

7 of those 18 sides have seen crowds rise. Coventry City have had the greatest increase, up almost 1.5k from last season. Second comes Watford, with a more modest increase of 642. In fact, excluding Coventry's increase in attendance, the average increase of the other 6 clubs is a mere 338. All 3 sides promoted from League 1 have seen crowds increaseby around 2k on average, but are not included in this analysis.

That leaves 11 out of 18 sides that have seen crowds fall. Stoke have had the smallest drop, with crowds falling by an average of 11, while QPR represent the other end of the scale, losing around 3.5k.

Cardiff, Stoke and Coventry have had the most home games on a Saturday lunchtime or Friday evening so far this season with 4. Our crowd has dropped by 2k while Coventry's has gone up by 1.5k

Here's a list of the number of matches moved to a Saturday lunchtime or Friday evening and average crowd of those sides:

4 times - average crowd drop of -181 (-1.2%)
3 times - average crowd drop of -885 (-5%)
2 times - average crowd drop of -423 (-2.2%)
1 time - average crowd rise of 620 (+2.6%)
0 times - average crowd drop of -1264 (-7.6%)

The word anomaly was one of the buzz words on here yesterday and I suppose trying to figure out what is anomaly and what isn't is key here.

3 sides have had 4 fixtures moved; us, Stoke and Coventry. Our average crowd has gone down by 2000, Coventry's has gone up by nearly 1,500.

5 sides have had 3 fixtures moved; Leeds crowd has gone up slightly, 3 have seen theirs go down slightly while QPR's huge crowd drop is arguably the main reason for the large drop figure here.

Only one side hasn't had a home fixture moved to a Saturday lunchtime or Friday evening - Swansea. Their crowd has gone down by a sizeable percentage, that's with having played us in their cup final as well. It's worth noting that they had 20,174 when we grabbed a point there - they're averaging 14,499 for their other 6 league matches and none of them have been moved to the alleged worst times.

Lastly, I've had a look at attendances and any relation with league positions, current and last season.

The three teams that finished in the top 6 last season have all seen crowds rise. 3 of the other 4 sides that have seen crowds rise have sides currently in a higher position in the league than they were last season. This season, sides in the bottom 6 have seen an average drop in crowds of 9%. There is more data available for anyone interested enough.

While I wouldn't say that more lunchtime kickoffs haven't had an impact on crowds, the data suggests that league position has a far greater impact.

Have you taken into consideration, the fact that season ticket holders are counted into the attendance figures, even though they are sat at home in the warm.
Last Saturday the ground was practically empty

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Have you taken into consideration, the fact that season ticket holders are counted into the attendance figures, even though they are sat at home in the warm.
Last Saturday the ground was practically empty

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As I said, I've taken the official attendance figures. It's impossible to take into consideration season ticket holders who don't turn up as there's no data on them. I reckon if we were going for promotion, more of them would turn up regardless of kickoff time.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Lots of comments have been made on here about the effect midday kickoffs have had on attendances this season, so I thought I'd have a look at the data. A quick note about the data used - I've used figures on worldfootball.net for average attendance figures from 2023/24 and 2024/25, so hopefully that is free of errors. I have only included the 18 clubs that took part in both last and this season's Championship, so there are no discrepancies due to relegation or promotion.

Of the 18 teams in this season's Championship that were also there last season:

Average crowds are down by a total of exactly 9,000, or an average of 500 per team. This equates to a 2.9% drop in attendances.

7 of those 18 sides have seen crowds rise. Coventry City have had the greatest increase, up almost 1.5k from last season. Second comes Watford, with a more modest increase of 642. In fact, excluding Coventry's increase in attendance, the average increase of the other 6 clubs is a mere 338. All 3 sides promoted from League 1 have seen crowds increaseby around 2k on average, but are not included in this analysis.

That leaves 11 out of 18 sides that have seen crowds fall. Stoke have had the smallest drop, with crowds falling by an average of 11, while QPR represent the other end of the scale, losing around 3.5k.

Cardiff, Stoke and Coventry have had the most home games on a Saturday lunchtime or Friday evening so far this season with 4. Our crowd has dropped by 2k while Coventry's has gone up by 1.5k

Here's a list of the number of matches moved to a Saturday lunchtime or Friday evening and average crowd of those sides:

4 times - average crowd drop of -181 (-1.2%)
3 times - average crowd drop of -885 (-5%)
2 times - average crowd drop of -423 (-2.2%)
1 time - average crowd rise of 620 (+2.6%)
0 times - average crowd drop of -1264 (-7.6%)

The word anomaly was one of the buzz words on here yesterday and I suppose trying to figure out what is anomaly and what isn't is key here.

3 sides have had 4 fixtures moved; us, Stoke and Coventry. Our average crowd has gone down by 2000, Coventry's has gone up by nearly 1,500.

5 sides have had 3 fixtures moved; Leeds crowd has gone up slightly, 3 have seen theirs go down slightly while QPR's huge crowd drop is arguably the main reason for the large drop figure here.

Only one side hasn't had a home fixture moved to a Saturday lunchtime or Friday evening - Swansea. Their crowd has gone down by a sizeable percentage, that's with having played us in their cup final as well. It's worth noting that they had 20,174 when we grabbed a point there - they're averaging 14,499 for their other 6 league matches and none of them have been moved to the alleged worst times.

Lastly, I've had a look at attendances and any relation with league positions, current and last season.

The three teams that finished in the top 6 last season have all seen crowds rise. 3 of the other 4 sides that have seen crowds rise have sides currently in a higher position in the league than they were last season. This season, sides in the bottom 6 have seen an average drop in crowds of 9%. There is more data available for anyone interested enough.

While I wouldn't say that more lunchtime kickoffs haven't had an impact on crowds, the data suggests that league position has a far greater impact.

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How does Riza's crowd compare directly with Bulut's?

It's much better to watch now than it was obviously.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Lots of comments have been made on here about the effect midday kickoffs have had on attendances this season, so I thought I'd have a look at the data. A quick note about the data used - I've used figures on worldfootball.net for average attendance figures from 2023/24 and 2024/25, so hopefully that is free of errors. I have only included the 18 clubs that took part in both last and this season's Championship, so there are no discrepancies due to relegation or promotion.

Of the 18 teams in this season's Championship that were also there last season:

Average crowds are down by a total of exactly 9,000, or an average of 500 per team. This equates to a 2.9% drop in attendances.

7 of those 18 sides have seen crowds rise. Coventry City have had the greatest increase, up almost 1.5k from last season. Second comes Watford, with a more modest increase of 642. In fact, excluding Coventry's increase in attendance, the average increase of the other 6 clubs is a mere 338. All 3 sides promoted from League 1 have seen crowds increaseby around 2k on average, but are not included in this analysis.

That leaves 11 out of 18 sides that have seen crowds fall. Stoke have had the smallest drop, with crowds falling by an average of 11, while QPR represent the other end of the scale, losing around 3.5k.

Cardiff, Stoke and Coventry have had the most home games on a Saturday lunchtime or Friday evening so far this season with 4. Our crowd has dropped by 2k while Coventry's has gone up by 1.5k

Here's a list of the number of matches moved to a Saturday lunchtime or Friday evening and average crowd of those sides:

4 times - average crowd drop of -181 (-1.2%)
3 times - average crowd drop of -885 (-5%)
2 times - average crowd drop of -423 (-2.2%)
1 time - average crowd rise of 620 (+2.6%)
0 times - average crowd drop of -1264 (-7.6%)

The word anomaly was one of the buzz words on here yesterday and I suppose trying to figure out what is anomaly and what isn't is key here.

3 sides have had 4 fixtures moved; us, Stoke and Coventry. Our average crowd has gone down by 2000, Coventry's has gone up by nearly 1,500.

5 sides have had 3 fixtures moved; Leeds crowd has gone up slightly, 3 have seen theirs go down slightly while QPR's huge crowd drop is arguably the main reason for the large drop figure here.

Only one side hasn't had a home fixture moved to a Saturday lunchtime or Friday evening - Swansea. Their crowd has gone down by a sizeable percentage, that's with having played us in their cup final as well. It's worth noting that they had 20,174 when we grabbed a point there - they're averaging 14,499 for their other 6 league matches and none of them have been moved to the alleged worst times.

Lastly, I've had a look at attendances and any relation with league positions, current and last season.

The three teams that finished in the top 6 last season have all seen crowds rise. 3 of the other 4 sides that have seen crowds rise have sides currently in a higher position in the league than they were last season. This season, sides in the bottom 6 have seen an average drop in crowds of 9%. There is more data available for anyone interested enough.

While I wouldn't say that more lunchtime kickoffs haven't had an impact on crowds, the data suggests that league position has a far greater impact.

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Bearing in mind that as season ticket holders are counted whether present or not it must be assumed that all those 200 were 'on-the-day' ticket sales lost. But how does that loss of revenue equate to the money city were paid for television appearances?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Bearing in mind that as season ticket holders are counted whether present or not it must be assumed that all those 200 were 'on-the-day' ticket sales lost. But how does that loss of revenue equate to the money city were paid for television appearances?

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2000, but that doesn't take into account whether season ticket sales were up or down.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

How does Riza's crowd compare directly with Bulut's?

It's much better to watch now than it was obviously.

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Not worth the comparison with your mate. Riza hasn't managed a side that has played on the opening day or played Leeds at home. Those will generally attract two of our biggest crowds.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

2000, but that doesn't take into account whether season ticket sales were up or down.

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Sorry, my error, but the question stands. Regardless of season ticket sales, taking an average cost of a ticket how does the revenue from 200 tickets stack up against TV revenue?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

As I said, I've taken the official attendance figures. It's impossible to take into consideration season ticket holders who don't turn up as there's no data on them. I reckon if we were going for promotion, more of them would turn up regardless of kickoff time.

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So it's a lot of nonsense of no value whatsoever and a total waste of time :hehe:

What a tool :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Not worth the comparison with your mate. Riza hasn't managed a side that has played on the opening day or played Leeds at home. Those will generally attract two of our biggest crowds.

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So you don't like the answer to a question, so you won't answer it, well you have to yourself but without revealing it :hehe:

I wasn't expecting that answer to be honest, and it doesn't matter to me so no need to get all defensive :hehe:

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Sorry, my error, but the question stands. Regardless of season ticket sales, taking an average cost of a ticket how does the revenue from 200 tickets stack up against TV revenue?

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Difficult to answer. I've read that the new TV deal is worth around an extra £4m per season, taken from a Plymouth messageboard.

How much would the club make from 200 tickets? I have no idea of the break down, but suppose the club miss out on £25 per person on average, £5,000 per 200 tickets, including children etc.

I make it that £4m a season equates to just under £175,000 per game, or around 7,000 tickets. Granted that these are estimates and very rough calculations, but it's clear that each Championship club will be better off financially with the new deal, even if it lost thousands of supporters every home game. Of course, that doesn't include other match day income, such as programmes, refreshments, club shop and so on. We'd only ever be guessing how much the club would lose out on from each of those.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

So you don't like the answer to a question, so you won't answer it, well you have to yourself but without revealing it :hehe:

I wasn't expecting that answer to be honest, and it doesn't matter to me so no need to get all defensive :hehe:

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I wasn't being defensive. The question wasn't worth answering. Once again you talk a load of bollocks and this thread could end up being yet another long yawn with you wanting to have the last word.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

So it's a lot of nonsense of no value whatsoever and a total waste of time :hehe:

What a tool :hehe:

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I appreciate that understanding plain English isn't your strongest suit

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Couldn't put it better myself.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I wasn't being defensive. The question wasn't worth answering. Once again you talk a load of bollocks and this thread could end up being yet another long yawn with you wanting to have the last word.

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:hehe: (ps that's not a word it's a laughing emoji because you're hysterical and you had to have the last word, as for bollocks that's a post that you've spent ages compiling with half the data missing) :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Couldn't put it better myself.

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:hehe: Go on report me to your boss :hehe::hehe::hehe:
Please help me please help me :hehe:

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

:hehe: (ps that's not a word it's a laughing emoji because you're hysterical and you had to have the last word, as for bollocks that's a post that you've spent ages compiling with half the data missing) :hehe:

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What data is missing? What should I have done to get this? Go on then, I'm all ears......

Have you taken into consideration average league position of the opponent for 12.30pm kick offs v 3pm kick offs?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

What data is missing? What should I have done to get this? Go on then, I'm all ears......

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Have you taken into consideration, the fact that season ticket holders are counted into the attendance figures, even though they are sat at home in the warm.
Last Saturday the ground was practically empty.

Unless you are there counting them you haven't got a clue how many are present.

Bored now it's a daft post and makes no sense.

It could be just an anomaly anyway :hehe:

Has the meal deal offer comprising of a pint of Carling and a sausage roll had any effect on attendance?

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

Has the meal deal offer comprising of a pint of Carling and a sausage roll had any effect on attendance?

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I don't think it has encouraged the gluten intolerant vegetarian sector in.

So what are the conclusions ?

In a very quick precis

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Have you taken into consideration, the fact that season ticket holders are counted into the attendance figures, even though they are sat at home in the warm.
Last Saturday the ground was practically empty.

Unless you are there counting them you haven't got a clue how many are present.

Bored now it's a daft post and makes no sense.

It could be just an anomaly anyway :hehe:

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So the bit where I say "what should I have done to get this" remains unanswered.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Have you taken into consideration average league position of the opponent for 12.30pm kick offs v 3pm kick offs?

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Not particularly, neither have I considered whether opponents are rivals or whether they bring more or fewer away fans with them, nor whether the corresponding fixture last season was 3pm on a Saturday and what the crowds were then.

The next step beyond that is to go around every supporter with a series of questions FFS......

This is a straightforward look at average attendances and how many lunchtime fixtures clubs have had. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

So what are the conclusions ?

In a very quick precis

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Crowds are down based on last season, though those whose crowds have dropped are more likely to have either struggled last season or have had a downturn of fortunes this season, more than they've had fixtures changed to midday.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Crowds are down based on last season, though those whose crowds have dropped are more likely to have either struggled last season or have had a downturn of fortunes this season, more than they've had fixtures changed to midday.

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Where do we fit in ?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Crowds are down based on last season, though those whose crowds have dropped are more likely to have either struggled last season or have had a downturn of fortunes this season, more than they've had fixtures changed to midday.

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Maybe it's because we are in the bottom three, where as last season we were top half?

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

So it's a lot of nonsense of no value whatsoever and a total waste of time :hehe:

What a tool :hehe:

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Spoken like a true one. ****ing wet wipe.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Maybe it's because we are in the bottom three, where as last season we were top half?

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A comparison of attendances between last and this season:

Sunderland -740
Middlesbrough -4999
Leeds United -2784
Millwall -3739
Plymouth Argyle -2949
Norwich City -2239
Blackburn Rovers +57

Sunderland was our opening game this season and so to have a smaller crowd than last season is a bit of a fail. Both Boro and Leeds games were on a Saturday - Boro was our last home game of last season. Millwall was a midweek fixture this season but a Saturday one last season. Plymouth was our Boxing day fixture last season so would naturally have a bigger crowd. While we had a marginally bigger crowd for Blackburn at home, this season it was held on a Saturday, not midweek like last season.

It's clear from the start of this season that there has been a drop in crowds. I would say that keeping Bulut on was a mistake and, despite some fans wanting him to stay, him staying clearly had a negative effect on crowds. While we're struggling down the table I think our crowds will remain similarly low but there are signs they will improve if results and performances continue to do.

It’s been affecting my Saturdays, I’m all over the place chronologically. I’m coming out of the ground, jumping on the football bus (which, incidentally, broke down after about 10 yards on Saturday, got a taxi instead) to nip into town for a pint or two. In our heads it’s 5 o’clockish/coming up 6pm when in fact it’s ridiculously early in the afternoon. I’m home by half 6, disoriented by the whole situation. I think my body clock is set fast to 3pm kick offs on a Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Sunderland was our opening game this season and so to have a smaller crowd than last season is a bit of a fail.

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I disagree. After 12 months of Bulutball, the fact that any more than a couple of thousand turned up is a triumph in my book.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

5 sides have had 3 fixtures moved; Leeds crowd has gone up slightly, 3 have seen theirs go down slightly while QPR's huge crowd drop is arguably the main reason for the large drop figure here.

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I'm not surprised by Leeds, they've got over 20,000 fans on their season ticket waiting list.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I disagree. After 12 months of Bulutball, the fact that any more than a couple of thousand turned up is a triumph in my book.

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:hehe: We're on the same hymnsheet here. Normally the opening day home fixture would generate one of the bigger crowds of the season, so to have a lower crowd on the opening day for the same fixture as last season can't be considered as a positive vote for Bulut.