Hypothetical Relegation Scenario .

So.

Would you take relegation if it brought about the following -

- Vincent Tan sells up .... leaves ..... whatever , he's gone.

- The club is taken over by a bunch of comparatively rich but sensible locals who are also supporters or at least have a minimal understanding of the culture of CCFC.

- The new board would mostly invest in the academy, spending enough on the first team to keep it relatively buoyant in League One.

- We'd be there for a 5 seasons before ultimately gaining promotion back to the Championship



Personally , I'd take something like that.

No.

5 years in L1 🤣🤣🤣

Hardly tempting that scenario

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divine Wright

So.

Would you take relegation if it brought about the following -

- Vincent Tan sells up .... leaves ..... whatever , he's gone.

- The club is taken over by a bunch of comparatively rich but sensible locals who are also supporters or at least have a minimal understanding of the culture of CCFC.

- The new board would mostly invest in the academy, spending enough on the first team to keep it relatively buoyant in League One.

- We'd be there for a 5 seasons before ultimately gaining promotion back to the Championship



Personally , I'd take something like that.

---

Absolutely not.

So are you asking if I would accept a relegation now + 5 years in league one to get rid of Vincent Tan?

No, not for me.
Not judging you if it is for you, but I'd be happy to see Tan successful here - especially if he gets his way and we have an attacking team packed with youth etc.

Also the guy's in his 70s already anyway- presumably at some point he'll sell up.

That said, if the scenario you described did happen it wouldn't change much for me.

I think we could achieve this with Tan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rjk

I'd be happy to see Tan successful here - especially if he gets his way and we have an attacking team packed with youth etc.

Also the guy's in his 70s already anyway- presumably at some point he'll sell up.

That said, if the scenario you described did happen it wouldn't change much for me.

---

I think that if Tan's wish was to have an attacking team packed with youth he'd have done it by now. Instead we've generally had managers who have preferred experience over giving youth a chance during the time he's owned the club.

I also reckon virtually all City fans would be happy if Tan was successful here. Unfortunately it looks like the opposite is happening, hence lots of concern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I think that if Tan's wish was to have an attacking team packed with youth he'd have done it by now. Instead we've generally had managers who have preferred experience over giving youth a chance during the time he's owned the club.

I also reckon virtually all City fans would be happy if Tan was successful here. Unfortunately it looks like the opposite is happening, hence lots of concern.

---

Given the levels of woe on here during the start to the season, I would dread to think what this place would be like after 5 years of mid table league one football.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rjk

Given the levels of woe on here during the start to the season, I would dread to think what this place would be like after 5 years of mid table league one football.

---

Personally, I feel frustrated because the people in charge keep on making the same mistakes over and over again.

They have no plan on the footballing side, and have no respect for the supporters.

Tan is wasting everyone's time trying to make a success of this project. Meanwhile, people sit and hope that the board will bungle its' way to a manager who can repeat what McKay and Warnock did, only this time on a much smaller budget.

People sit in hope that he'll hire someone with footballing knowledge to run the club.

In the meantime another decade will have passed and we'll have made little to no progress. At least, I don't see any shoots of hope for the future.

I'd muuuch prefer to be back in the same league in a few years time with a coherent plan instead of being in the championship in five years time with the same people running things, making the same short term decisions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hilts

No.

5 years in L1 ������

Hardly tempting that scenario

---

Repeating the last 5 is more tempting ??

Of course not and it’s massively naive.

We already know no matter how much investment Man City etc will pick up the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divine Wright

Repeating the last 5 is more tempting ??

---

5 years in the Championship or 5 years In L1. Yes.

I wouldn't take five years in league one, but I think there are a few examples of bigger clubs getting relegated and using it as a reset and in some cases clearing out the higher earners, rebuilding the fan base etc. It doesn't have to be a disaster.

But then you have clubs like Charlton who seem stuck there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

I wouldn't take five years in league one, but I think there are a few examples of bigger clubs getting relegated and using it as a reset and in some cases clearing out the higher earners, rebuilding the fan base etc. It doesn't have to be a disaster.

But then you have clubs like Charlton who seem stuck there.

---

I’d agree with that. We’ve been relegated to the equivalent of the Third Division three times since I started watching the club in 1963 and each time our stay in the third tier lasted just one season. In 75/76 and 82/83 we were promoted straight back and in 85/86 we suffered a second consecutive relegation. That goes to the heart of my belief that relegation doesn’t have to be a disaster and to why I’d accept the scenario outlined in the OP apart from the bit about it taking us five years to return.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I’d agree with that. We’ve been relegated to the equivalent of the Third Division three times since I started watching the club in 1963 and each time our stay in the third tier lasted just one season. In 75/76 and 82/83 we were promoted straight back and in 85/86 we suffered a second consecutive relegation. That goes to the heart of my belief that relegation doesn’t have to be a disaster and to why I’d accept the scenario outlined in the OP apart from the bit about it taking us five years to return.

---

Of course relegation doesnt have to be a disaster and we can all dream of a team with likes of the 2 colwills in midfield, tanner, davies. Etete, bagan being too good for league 1 us having a great season scoring loads of goals and coming back up with a young hungry and local side. It could happen.

However it could also be happen we could either be stuck there or go down again.

A quick look at league 1 with birmingham bolton huddersfield barnsley reading charlton wigan certainly suggests in terms of recent history and realistic size of clubs we would fit in pretty well amongst those.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Father Dougal

A quick look at league 1 with birmingham bolton huddersfield barnsley reading charlton wigan certainly suggests in terms of recent history and realistic size of clubs we would fit in pretty well amongst those.

---

Absolutely!
That is the concern for me in a relegation scenario: we would have no certainty of a swift return, and could easily become a Charlton.

Look further down the pyramid and you see Notts County, Oldham…a similar falling from grace is a distinct possibility for us under the current ownership.

I think if we say that our ambition is to become a Brentford, Brighton or Fulham - teams relatively settled in the Prem, playing some good football and with functioning youth and scouting departments neither scenario is great. There's nobody swooping in to save us from League 1 locally with that kind of money I don't think, and we've seen again and again Tan isn't willing to put the structure in place for it to happen under the current regime. As much as we'd all like to romanticize a local owner and getting our club back, the honest answer is that in today's football it probably requires a team of rich Americans or Arabs stepping in if we really have that ambition.

The nuclear question is what happens if League 1 happens (as it seems to get closer every year) under Tan, he decides he's totally lost interest and wants to get all the money he's invested back when the club is worth a fraction of that. In that case League 1 might be the least of our worries.

With this idiot and his 2 cronies at the helm I'd say it's not a scenario it's just when will it happen.

What happens when 72 year old Vincent Tan passes away? He’s got many more years behind him than in front of him. Will his heirs look favourably on Cardiff City? Or will the club be wound up not being able to pay the debt to the estate? Doubt his family will be willing to fund us.

Most local non-league games were off around me yesterday, so I decided to go and watch Swindon, now Clem the owner that promised so much yet has failed in it all ( Ive met Clem and its hardly surprising, he comes across as a chancer ) so the vibe around is rather negative and the supporters trust is demanding he sells up ( once again, to who is another matter )

they are also fighting relegation out of the FL, a decent game, met a few I knew from coaching workshops, Ollie was happy with the 3 points :xmasthumbup: hope they stay up

doesnt really matter what league you are in, as long as you have a team, a little hope that you will go up / stay up / have some light at the end of the tunnel

my best days watching city were in the Old League 3, in the early 90's the Eddie may promotion season as special

[QUOTE=Divine Wright;5557826]So.


- The club is taken over by a bunch of comparatively rich but sensible locals who are also supporters or at least have a minimal understanding of the culture of CCFC.

These people don't exist. And is there such a thing as 'the culture of CCFC? The club is, and always has been, a basket case.

[QUOTE=D. Advocaat;5557906]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divine Wright

So.


- The club is taken over by a bunch of comparatively rich but sensible locals who are also supporters or at least have a minimal understanding of the culture of CCFC.

These people don't exist. And is there such a thing as 'the culture of CCFC? The club is, and always has been, a basket case.

---

I wonder when it hasn't been?

My only nomination from last 40 years is maybe that first season under malky. We seemed fairly sensible then.

Not stupid wages. No mad rush to go up. A hard working team probably over performing. New owners who seemed sensible. Club maybe punching above our weight. Cup final v Liverpool an all time highlight for all of those reasons.

Playing in a new stadium many of us thought would never be built. Debt worries seemed over.

Not all the football was amazing but off the pitch we seemed fairly stable? Compared to what came before and what was to come after anyway.

Not sure what happened after that season mind...........

[QUOTE=D. Advocaat;5557906]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divine Wright

So.


- The club is taken over by a bunch of comparatively rich but sensible locals who are also supporters or at least have a minimal understanding of the culture of CCFC.

These people don't exist. And is there such a thing as 'the culture of CCFC? The club is, and always has been, a basket case.

---

One incredibly wealthy local born man is 70 year old Michael Moritz who now lives in the US. Have tried to reach him via email to ask if he would be interested in buying out the current hierarchy; no response so far but I may not have found his correct email address from the internet.

Anyone here who knows how to contact him (or people close to him) to see if he would be interested? Wikipedia state he is worth USD $6 billion.

[QUOTE=Father Dougal;5557907]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by D. Advocaat

I wonder when it hasn't been?

My only nomination from last 40 years is maybe that first season under malky. We seemed fairly sensible then.

Not stupid wages. No mad rush to go up. A hard working team probably over performing. New owners who seemed sensible. Club maybe punching above our weight. Cup final v Liverpool an all time highlight for all of those reasons.

Playing in a new stadium many of us thought would never be built. Debt worries seemed over.

Not all the football was amazing but off the pitch we seemed fairly stable? Compared to what came before and what was to come after anyway.

Not sure what happened after that season mind...........

---

I know exactly what happened after that season. One thing that has ended up defining our short sightedness ever since.

When Malky was appointed, the club had a 3 year plan to reach the Premier League. We overachieved in that first season under him and so the club decided to shorten that plan by a year and expected promotion the following season. This was accompanied by money to spend and red shirts.

Ever since then we've never heard of the club having any medium term plans, let alone long term. Each season we've been in the Championship the board or owner have talked of reaching the playoffs and promotion, regardless of how delusional they sound.

In short, we have a clueless bunch trying to run our club that wastes money as a result of their total ineptitude and unwillingness to learn. Given all that has been spent, to be fighting off relegation yet again can only be considered total, complete and utter failure on their part.

[QUOTE=Stanmore Bluebird;5557908]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by D. Advocaat

One incredibly wealthy local born man is 70 year old Michael Moritz who now lives in the US. Have tried to reach him via email to ask if he would be interested in buying out the current hierarchy; no response so far but I may not have found his correct email address from the internet.

Anyone here who knows how to contact him (or people close to him) to see if he would be interested? Wikipedia state he is worth USD $6 billion.

---

:hehe:

Can't believe he didn't reply!

[QUOTE=Father Dougal;5557911]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stanmore Bluebird

:hehe:

Can't believe he didn't reply!

---

Must have gone to his spam email!

I suspect that, like most people in and from Cardiff and S. Wales, he isn't remotely interested in Cardiff City Football Club.

[QUOTE=Stanmore Bluebird;5557908]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by D. Advocaat

One incredibly wealthy local born man is 70 year old Michael Moritz who now lives in the US. Have tried to reach him via email to ask if he would be interested in buying out the current hierarchy; no response so far but I may not have found his correct email address from the internet.

Anyone here who knows how to contact him (or people close to him) to see if he would be interested? Wikipedia state he is worth USD $6 billion.

---

Just PM him on here. Moritz is his American moniker but his real surname is Morris. This board is one of his tax havens.

[QUOTE=Eric the Half a Bee;5557916]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stanmore Bluebird

Just PM him on here. Moritz is his American moniker but his real surname is Morris. This board is one of his tax havens.

---

Yeah they almost cottoned on to him with the government grants and tax breaks he was getting for the Welsh language message board but he was smart to it.

Hiding in plain sight- cover blown.

I get that the likelihood of that happening is pretty remote.

But there is a world in which relegation is a reality. I guess Tan would have to change things if that happened. Not even he would continue flogging the Mehemt-Choo horse , would he ?? Maybe he would be tempted to cut his losses at that point.

I think the most unrealistic part is finding someone local who'd be able to buy the club out. Even a consortium. Then again, I think the club has quite a lot going for it in terms of infrastructure , fan base , logistic etc. There are clubs out there which are a complete mess, yet are quite attractive in the eyes of potential investors. Everton comes to mind ..... they are a totally basket case but people see the investment as worth the risk. Our club would provide something similar in terms of potential , but would at that point probably cost a fair bit less than a club like Everton.

I think I'd probably take the original scenario even without the local owners anyhow. Even if they were just sensible..... it doesn't really worry me that they are local....... it just does give you pause for thought after seeing how clueless and out of touch this Malaysian fella is.

And whilst some people might point out that clubs like Oldham and Notts County have struggled to get back to the top , I feel, have faith that we probably have more potential than Charlton and would also point to teams like Sunderland, Leeds, Man City, Ptsmouth who have been down there and made good of that situation. I'd like to think we are more similar to these sides in terms of reputation than a club like Charlton.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divine Wright

And whilst some people might point out that clubs like Oldham and Notts County have struggled to get back to the top , I feel, have faith that we probably have more potential than Charlton and would also point to teams like Sunderland, Leeds, Man City, Ptsmouth who have been down there and made good of that situation. I'd like to think we are more similar to these sides in terms of reputation than a club like Charlton.

---

Cardiff City is experiencing the sort of insidious decline that you see in businesses/clubs that really struggle to survive.

It's the sort that raises an eyebrow and then a shrug of the shoulders. Repeatedly. Year after year.

Yes, most people will simply carry on attending games and not get upset by "all that boardroom stuff", whereas others want to grab the club by the shoulders and scream at it to "WAKE UP!!!"

We certainly can turn into a Charlton. When Oldham were in the top flight, their fans would never have envisaged their current situation - it possibly took that final drop out of the league for some people to acknowledge how bad it was.

Yes, I look at clubs like Torquay, Scunthorpe, Darlington, Hereford... and think we could never fall that far. But I look at other clubs with real heritage struggling below Cardiff right now, and I'm not so confident about a swift bounce-back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divine Wright

So.

Would you take relegation if it brought about the following -

- Vincent Tan sells up .... leaves ..... whatever , he's gone.

- The club is taken over by a bunch of comparatively rich but sensible locals who are also supporters or at least have a minimal understanding of the culture of CCFC.

- The new board would mostly invest in the academy, spending enough on the first team to keep it relatively buoyant in League One.

- We'd be there for a 5 seasons before ultimately gaining promotion back to the Championship



Personally , I'd take something like that.

---

The club is taken over by a bunch of comparatively rich but sensible locals who are also supporters or at least have a minimal understanding of the culture of CCFC.

Yes and get the Riddler to run it, bring back the old days with winding up orders and unpaid tax, sell players at the wrong time to stop going into administration yes great :hehe:

Bolton were in the Premier League for eleven consecutive seasons and are having difficulties getting back to the Championship.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Yes and get the Riddler to run it, bring back the old days with winding up orders and unpaid tax, sell players at the wrong time to stop going into administration yes great :hehe:

---

Though it has to be said he has more knowledge of football in his little finger nail than our owner and entire board have if you quadrupled it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Bolton were in the Premier League for eleven consecutive seasons and are having difficulties getting back to the Championship.

---

Yes, but since the mid 60s, that stint in the top flight was out of the ordinary for Bolton. They've been a bit of a yo-yo side between the 2nd and 3rd tiers and even been in the bottom tier twice. Prior to 1964, they'd only spent 7 seasons out of the top division, but it's been a very different story since.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Yes, but since the mid 60s, that stint in the top flight was out of the ordinary for Bolton. They've been a bit of a yo-yo side between the 2nd and 3rd tiers and even been in the bottom tier twice. Prior to 1964, they'd only spent 7 seasons out of the top division, but it's been a very different story since.

---

Eleven seasons represents more than a blip though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Eleven seasons represents more than a blip though.

---

I didn't say it was a blip, I said it was out of the ordinary. 11 seasons in 60 years is hardly a regular thing, either.

Truth is that, since the mid 60s, their league record is far more similar, albeit not quite as good, to clubs like Charlton and Watford.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I didn't say it was a blip, I said it was out of the ordinary. 11 seasons in 60 years is hardly a regular thing, either.

Truth is that, since the mid 60s, their league record is far more similar, albeit not quite as good, to clubs like Charlton and Watford.

---

Well relegation is unlikely to be a good thing whatever :-)

This isn't a reply to any message in particular, but a general question - what would be so bad about relegation?

Crowds are unlikely to go down if we're challenging towards the playoffs, they might even improve. We might see some winning football instead of years of crap results and struggling at the foot of the Championship. Does anyone really prefer being beaten regularly in the Championship? Is playing the likes of West Brom and Norwich so much better than the likes of Barnsley and Wrexham?

Of course the opposite argument is that we could then struggle in League 1, but if that's what is finally due for us, there's nothing we can do about it. We're one of the longest serving sides in the top two divisions that hasn't dropped down to League 1 in the last 20 years. I read lots about how relegation would be a disaster, but now how that would be the case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

This isn't a reply to any message in particular, but a general question - what would be so bad about relegation?

Crowds are unlikely to go down if we're challenging towards the playoffs, they might even improve. We might see some winning football instead of years of crap results and struggling at the foot of the Championship. Does anyone really prefer being beaten regularly in the Championship? Is playing the likes of West Brom and Norwich so much better than the likes of Barnsley and Wrexham?

Of course the opposite argument is that we could then struggle in League 1, but if that's what is finally due for us, there's nothing we can do about it. We're one of the longest serving sides in the top two divisions that hasn't dropped down to League 1 in the last 20 years. I read lots about how relegation would be a disaster, but now how that would be the case.

---

The loss in tv money alone makes wanting to get relegated the most ridiculous concept I've read in this crackpot forum

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

This isn't a reply to any message in particular, but a general question - what would be so bad about relegation?

Crowds are unlikely to go down if we're challenging towards the playoffs, they might even improve. We might see some winning football instead of years of crap results and struggling at the foot of the Championship. Does anyone really prefer being beaten regularly in the Championship? Is playing the likes of West Brom and Norwich so much better than the likes of Barnsley and Wrexham?

Of course the opposite argument is that we could then struggle in League 1, but if that's what is finally due for us, there's nothing we can do about it. We're one of the longest serving sides in the top two divisions that hasn't dropped down to League 1 in the last 20 years. I read lots about how relegation would be a disaster, but now how that would be the case.

---

I may be wrong but surely a drop to League One means a drop in club income, which will mean jobs lost at the club and some of the good things the club does (like the Foundation) being cut back, or cut altogether?

Maybe the match day crowds won't be affected too much (although I expect they will drop) and maybe a squad re-set will be helpful and give Academy graduates more playing time (provided the club has built relegation clauses into contracts of the first teamers who are still with us) but I tend towards the 'disaster' end of the spectrum of possible outcomes. One big reason for that is because relegation will do nothing to change the structural weaknesses of the club (especially at board level) and has the potential to damage some of the main strengths.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fugsyphil

The loss in tv money alone makes wanting to get relegated the most ridiculous concept I've read in this crackpot forum

---

Totally agree with you, such a ridiculous idea.

Generally when a team is relegated, most if not all of their talented players are sold to balance the books and you are left with the 'dregs', making it doubly difficult to bounce back quickly. I can't believe that anyone would be naive enough to embrace the concept of relegation.