Question for all the right wingers on here

Genuine question and please keep on point to it, what is it about politics of the left that you hate so much?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Genuine question and please keep on point to it, what is it about politics of the left that you hate so much?

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How do you define a right winger ?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Genuine question and please keep on point to it, what is it about politics of the left that you hate so much?

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Why do you consider pointing out fake news to be hate when it's merely an intellectual exercise?

No answers yet, then.

I doubt people "hate" the left. Although that interpretation, which fits in with the need for constant division, hyperbole, sectarianism in beliefs etc is possibly something that sometimes grates.

This is of course a trait that applies across the spectrum, but the left are less likely to recognise it when they do it and that can be annoying.

A bit like last week in a post when one of the left of centre chaps on here said he wanted the hate filled idiot (in this case Musk) to be six foot under.

I genuinely really dislike political hatred. It's easy to slip into, and we are guilty of stirring the pot sometimes but I do wish the rhetoric were turned down on all sides and that people recognised it's all sides instead of thinking they are exempt.

So yeah, I would frame the question differently. It's probably more a case of why people think there are better solutions to problems than left wing ones sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

No answers yet, then.

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You'll have to ask a right winger.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

You'll have to ask a right winger.

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I'm still waiting for his definition to see if I fit.

I don’t think that there is a True Left or Right anymore.

I’ve long been somewhat politically homeless as the left as I knew it gave up the working class in a hard exchange for intersectionality.

The working class are sneered at by sanctimonious Guardianista’s in my opinion and I view Emily Thornberry and her “White Van Man” rhetoric as the epitome of the modern left.

I believe that the modern left hate country states, particularly those in the UK and it was magnified after Brexit.
I absolutely despise the snarkiness of many that think that they know better.

We are going to see the Overton Window shift dramatically and I fear that the modern left are going to have a lot to answer for regarding that swing.

I can’t deny that there is an element of schadenfreude that I have towards the likes of you Eric, but I really hope that the pendulum doesn’t go equidistant on its swing the other way.

I’ve worried about it for years and people like you have just scoffed and accused genuine people of being right wing.

I’m not, never have been or never will be.

I’m a realist though and am concerned about the back swing and would like to put up a crash mat in the centre of this pendulums momentum.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

I don’t think that there is a True Left or Right anymore.

I’ve long been somewhat politically homeless as the left as I knew it gave up the working class in a hard exchange for intersectionality.

The working class are sneered at by sanctimonious Guardianista’s in my opinion and I view Emily Thornberry and her “White Van Man” rhetoric as the epitome of the modern left.

I believe that the modern left hate country states, particularly those in the UK and it was magnified after Brexit.
I absolutely despise the snarkiness of many that think that they know better.

We are going to see the Overton Window shift dramatically and I fear that the modern left are going to have a lot to answer for regarding that swing.

I can’t deny that there is an element of schadenfreude that I have towards the likes of you Eric, but I really hope that the pendulum doesn’t go equidistant on its swing the other way.

I’ve worried about it for years and people like you have just scoffed and accused genuine people of being right wing.

I’m not, never have been or never will be.

I’m a realist though and am concerned about the back swing and would like to put up a crash mat in the centre of this pendulums momentum.

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When has there been a time when "the left" has held sway on the global stage? Back in the late nineties, we had Clinton and Blair in power so I'd suggest that is the closest we've come to it. but were they and their Governments really left wing? I suppose by today's standards they are, but then they're the standards that see Kamala Harris labelled as a communist and Starmer as being in the posket of union "barons" who are his "paymasters".

You say you don't want to see the pendulum go "equidistant on it's swing the other way". Strange, because all I've seen since the 2008 crash is a pendulum that has been headed in a rightward direction until we reach the current situation where it's almost done a full circle and is starting off on a second lap.

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

How do you define a right winger ?

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Sludge still hiding? He knows all about them….

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

You'll have to ask a right winger.

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You for a start. You never said a word about domestic politics when we had the party that Robert Jenrick wants to lead in charge for fourteen years, yet you haven't stopped posting critical stuff about the current Government since they came in six months ago. You're just one of a group of oldish men on here who have made the traditional lifelong journey from left to right with the added qualification that because the boomer generation have not lived through the horrors of a world war, the shift to the right seems to have been more marked.

In many ways, I don't like having to take the sort of position I have in this thread because I've got little time for the parties of Biden and Starmer these days, but the alternatives to their right are becoming frightening - the parallels with the 1930s are becoming imore marked with the passing of every year.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

You for a start. You never said a word about domestic politics when we had the party that Robert Jenrick wants to lead in charge for fourteen years, yet you haven't stopped posting critical stuff about the current Government since they came in six months ago. You're just one of a group of oldish men on here who have made the traditional lifelong journey from left to right with the added qualification that because the boomer generation have not lived through the horrors of a world war, the shift to the right seems to have been more marked.

In many ways, I don't like having to take the sort of position I have in this thread because I've got little time for the parties of Biden and Starmer these days, but the alternatives to their right are becoming frightening - the parallels with the 1930s are becoming imore marked with the passing of every year.

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Unlike the poster who started the thread, you have at least had the bollox to respond, big respect for that, I do agree with some of your analogy so would fall into some of what you say which is why i was looking for a definition, i'm currently WFH so dont have much time at the moment but will respond (in peace) !!! later this evening.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

When has there been a time when "the left" has held sway on the global stage? Back in the late nineties, we had Clinton and Blair in power so I'd suggest that is the closest we've come to it. but were they and their Governments really left wing? I suppose by today's standards they are, but then they're the standards that see Kamala Harris labelled as a communist and Starmer as being in the posket of union "barons" who are his "paymasters".

You say you don't want to see the pendulum go "equidistant on it's swing the other way". Strange, because all I've seen since the 2008 crash is a pendulum that has been headed in a rightward direction until we reach the current situation where it's almost done a full circle and is starting off on a second lap.

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It's been a uniparty since 1997.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

You for a start. You never said a word about domestic politics when we had the party that Robert Jenrick wants to lead in charge for fourteen years, yet you haven't stopped posting critical stuff about the current Government since they came in six months ago. You're just one of a group of oldish men on here who have made the traditional lifelong journey from left to right with the added qualification that because the boomer generation have not lived through the horrors of a world war, the shift to the right seems to have been more marked.

In many ways, I don't like having to take the sort of position I have in this thread because I've got little time for the parties of Biden and Starmer these days, but the alternatives to their right are becoming frightening - the parallels with the 1930s are becoming imore marked with the passing of every year.

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I have only ever voted for Labour, so I feel I have a right to critique them. Starmer vs Trump will be an interesting left/right experiment for the everyday people.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

When has there been a time when "the left" has held sway on the global stage? Back in the late nineties, we had Clinton and Blair in power so I'd suggest that is the closest we've come to it. but were they and their Governments really left wing? I suppose by today's standards they are, but then they're the standards that see Kamala Harris labelled as a communist and Starmer as being in the posket of union "barons" who are his "paymasters".

You say you don't want to see the pendulum go "equidistant on it's swing the other way". Strange, because all I've seen since the 2008 crash is a pendulum that has been headed in a rightward direction until we reach the current situation where it's almost done a full circle and is starting off on a second lap.

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I would say that regardless of who has been in Number 10 or The Whitehouse, the last 15 years have seen an enormous rise in the left’s influence.

The absolute mental stage where we find ourselves today has been a result of liberal/progressive institutions stamping their authority on all aspects of Western culture, where everything all of a sudden had to be viewed through the lens of oppression.

Lo and behold…articles pop up like Maths and the Countryside are Racist.
People who express concern regarding mass immigration into Europe are considered far right.
People who are concerned about the exponential growth and influence of Islam in the West are considered fascists.
Long standing scientific facts and language has been ripped up and we have to accept it as the new normal.

This zeitgeist has been wearing no clothes for a long time and people have had an absolute gutsful of it…hence the rise in populism.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Genuine question and please keep on point to it, what is it about politics of the left that you hate so much?

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do you mean ,why don't i want communism ?

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

I would say that regardless of who has been in Number 10 or The Whitehouse, the last 15 years have seen an enormous rise in the left’s influence.

The absolute mental stage where we find ourselves today has been a result of liberal/progressive institutions stamping their authority on all aspects of Western culture, where everything all of a sudden had to be viewed through the lens of oppression.

Lo and behold…articles pop up like Maths and the Countryside are Racist.
People who express concern regarding mass immigration into Europe are considered far right.
People who are concerned about the exponential growth and influence of Islam in the West are considered fascists.
Long standing scientific facts and language has been ripped up and we have to accept it as the new normal.

This zeitgeist has been wearing no clothes for a long time and people have had an absolute gutsful of it…hence the rise in populism.

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If you mean that a move towards more tolerance for and of some minorities is solely down to the left, then I'd agree that there has been an increase in its influence in the last fifteen years. I think that's a good thing actually, don't you?

The Daily Mail and other unashamedly right wing sections of the media used to drone on about "political correctness gone mad" thirty and forty years ago as they railed against the EU and all that has happened in the intervening years is that political correctness gone mad has gradually been replaced by "anti woke" which, in some places at least, carries more sinister undertones. However, it is essentially the right whingeing against developments taking place at the time - the difference this time is that whereas political correctness gone mad was a fairly loose and harmless term, anti woke has become more mainstream and generally accepted because of the rightward swing of the pendulum I mentioned in a previous post.

As for your list of examples of the "enormous rise in the left's influence", I've never heard of claims that Maths and the Countryside are racist - are they part of any left wing party's official policy? You mention "articles", are they written by people in a position to affect the policy of Governments or are they just opinion pieces? Outlandish articles on the left and right have been written for decades, if not centuries, but shouldn't be taken for policy.

Your second and third examples are essentially the same thing. I'm not looking to excuse some of the excesses of a proportion of those on the left when it comes to how they view immigration, but I would say that they hear some of the anti minority views of the likes of Orban and Erdogan and want to show their opposition to such opinions. Add in the number of countries where the nationalist right are closer to forming a Government than at any time since the Second World War and the left will want to present another side to the argument against thinking which is diametrically opposed to their own. The fact that these right wing, often far right wing, parties are on the rise is proof of the swing to the populist right which has been going on for at least a decade, but I maintain has its roots in the 2008 financial crisis.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean by your fourth point, but I suspect climate change is involved somewhere in it, so I'll just post this link for someone out of the usual suspects on here to tell us the experts and scientists have got it wrong and they know better

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd7575x8yq5o

We live in a time where the elite which is actually trying to control the American Government for the next four years are deciding that there is no longer any need for fact checking - more evidence of the ever rightward direction of your pendulum.

It's certainly easier these days to understand how Nazi Germany started.

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Originally Posted by stevo

It's certainly easier these days to understand how Nazi Germany started.

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Are you talking about how the public turned on their neighbours during Covid here and how unvaccinated people were vilified :hehe:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

If you mean that a move towards more tolerance for and of some minorities is solely down to the left, then I'd agree that there has been an increase in its influence in the last fifteen years. I think that's a good thing actually, don't you?

The Daily Mail and other unashamedly right wing sections of the media used to drone on about "political correctness gone mad" thirty and forty years ago as they railed against the EU and all that has happened in the intervening years is that political correctness gone mad has gradually been replaced by "anti woke" which, in some places at least, carries more sinister undertones. However, it is essentially the right whingeing against developments taking place at the time - the difference this time is that whereas political correctness gone mad was a fairly loose and harmless term, anti woke has become more mainstream and generally accepted because of the rightward swing of the pendulum I mentioned in a previous post.

As for your list of examples of the "enormous rise in the left's influence", I've never heard of claims that Maths and the Countryside are racist - are they part of any left wing party's official policy? You mention "articles", are they written by people in a position to affect the policy of Governments or are they just opinion pieces? Outlandish articles on the left and right have been written for decades, if not centuries, but shouldn't be taken for policy.

Your second and third examples are essentially the same thing. I'm not looking to excuse some of the excesses of a proportion of those on the left when it comes to how they view immigration, but I would say that they hear some of the anti minority views of the likes of Orban and Erdogan and want to show their opposition to such opinions. Add in the number of countries where the nationalist right are closer to forming a Government than at any time since the Second World War and the left will want to present another side to the argument against thinking which is diametrically opposed to their own. The fact that these right wing, often far right wing, parties are on the rise is proof of the swing to the populist right which has been going on for at least a decade, but I maintain has its roots in the 2008 financial crisis.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean by your fourth point, but I suspect climate change is involved somewhere in it, so I'll just post this link for someone out of the usual suspects on here to tell us the experts and scientists have got it wrong and they know better

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd7575x8yq5o

We live in a time where the elite which is actually trying to control the American Government for the next four years are deciding that there is no longer any need for fact checking - more evidence of the ever rightward direction of your pendulum.

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One bog similarity of the "political correctness gone mad" and "anti woke" movements (if you can call them that) is that so much of what they rail against is entirely imagined.

you can't say merry christmas any more
schools have litter trays for kids who identify as cats etc etc

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Originally Posted by Rjk

you can't say merry christmas any more
schools have litter trays for kids who identify as cats etc etc

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Sounds like something Trump would say.

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Originally Posted by stevo

It's certainly easier these days to understand how Nazi Germany started.

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Unfortunately the evidence suggests otherwise!

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Originally Posted by Rjk

One bog similarity of the "political correctness gone mad" and "anti woke" movements (if you can call them that) is that so much of what they rail against is entirely imagined.

you can't say merry christmas any more
schools have litter trays for kids who identify as cats etc etc

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They are of course extreme examples. But it is the case that in a time of austerity, spending on what in America is generally called "DEI" has greatly increased, with no discernable success, whilst arguably contributing to racial conflict as opposed to solving it. People who are seeing bills increasing and services declining are allowed to object to that.

I think the general feeling is that things have "gone too far" and I think that too. It's not good, it has impacted upon the public discourse, it has fuelled more polarized times and I think a row back is a good thing and will happen.

Likewise, we live in an era when we are essentially told that our racial or sexual or gender characteristics (ie things we can't control) are our defining features. This is the opposite to when I was growing up when I think progress on race relations was vastly better than now.

There are laws against racial discrimination. Beyond that I don't think we need as much intervention as it can produce more negative than positive outcomes.

Liberalism more generally however absolutely should be praised for encouraging a more tolerant opinion of sexuality, gender etc. Small c (and big C for that matter) conservative views on sexuality that were prevalent a few decades ago seem absolutely absurd now. Even the idea that two men can't marry seems preposterously unfair. I'm not sure this is really a left/right thing per se, but on gay rights etc the left have been absolutely a driving force for good.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Unfortunately the evidence suggests otherwise!

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Okay, well I was only speaking for myself :-)

That's very true

These days , if you say you are English , they throw you in jail

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Originally Posted by stevo

Sounds like something Trump would say.

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If you say you are English these days .....they arrest you

And throw you in Jail

Unbelievable really

But it's true

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

That's very true

These days , if you say you are English , they throw you in jail

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Great to have you back 👍

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Great to have you back ��

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Kayrdiff

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Kayrdiff

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Welcome back:xmasayatollah:

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Originally Posted by jeepster

Welcome back:xmasayatollah:

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Dear me this place is like a dinosaur graveyard

Tyranysauruss Greater Spotted Right Wing Lonely Darts Club Rex

Penarth Beach Branch

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Dear me this place is like a dinosaur graveyard

Tyranysauruss Greater Spotted Right Wing Lonely Darts Club Rex

Penarth Beach Branch

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True. :hehe:

Welcome back.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Dear me this place is like a dinosaur graveyard

Tyranysauruss Greater Spotted Right Wing Lonely Darts Club Rex

Penarth Beach Branch

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I've reported this post for hate speech against extinct animals, polka dots, and politically challenged sedentary sports enthusiasts.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

If you say you are English these days .....they arrest you

And throw you in Jail

Unbelievable really

But it's true

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Welcome back Sludge!
Stuart Lee is a very clever guy…can’t stand him though.

Just thought I would plonk the political compass page on the 2024 general election in here. Bear in mind that this isn't based on current party policy or positions held, only what was known before the general election.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2024

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Kayrdiff

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Oh f**k 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Just thought I would plonk the political compass page on the 2024 general election in here. Bear in mind that this isn't based on current party policy or positions held, only what was known before the general election.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2024

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I just took that test my results…

Economic Left/Right: -2.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.26

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Great to have you back 👍

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Im

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Great to have you back 👍

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I'm going to get him to lose his shit again, it will be easy,🤣 I'll get him banned again just give me a couple of hours.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

I've reported this post for hate speech against extinct animals, polka dots, and politically challenged sedentary sports enthusiasts.

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:xmashehe:

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

Im

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I do lenjoy a good cliff-hanger.