I'm curious. Occasionally I read about the threat of the political "far left" on social media, usually from Tommy Robinson supporters etc, but I have no idea what that actually means. Who are the "far left"? What is their damaging agenda?
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I'm curious. Occasionally I read about the threat of the political "far left" on social media, usually from Tommy Robinson supporters etc, but I have no idea what that actually means. Who are the "far left"? What is their damaging agenda?
Normally refers to communism, Marxism really doesn't it. I guess some socialists could be considered such depending how you define the word.
Damaging is dependent on your view, but communism hasn't done well economically generally. It's also an ideology behind a hell of a lot of violence, terrorism, killings, starvation etc so I think it's understandable, like the far right, that it is considered potentially damaging.
Whilst we have had socialism of sorts, we've not had communismQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
We as in Britain or we as in the world?Quote:
Originally Posted by HiVis
Probably means rabidly anti-capitalist without realising the issues that causes.
But the reality is people on the right on certain issues, who don't like being called far-right by association, use it like a machine gun to describe anybody they don't like. For example Elon described Starmer and this Labour government as far-left, which is about as far from the truth as you can get but plays well to his audience.
Being a bellend?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
I agree. It's ridiculous although it's an inevitable backlash to years of people being labeled 'far-right". A guy who has been called a Nazi won't be in forgiving mood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
It's mostly hyperbolic crap but if you give it out, you have to expect it back rightly or wrongly.
The only area where I think there has been growth in genuinely "far-left" thinking is some of the issues around race and identity where definitions of racism have really become distorted and sensible things like reporting foreign criminals becomes labelled as far-right etc which is daft. Any government that cares about it's society should be doing such things.
A Labour voter if you go by a lot of the old print media and the new political TV channels that have surfaced in the past few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
FTFYQuote:
Originally Posted by HiVis
It's too late for a paragraph and stuck in bed on the phone, but for a starter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
The propa far lefties, despise the family unit.
T.B.C
That would be my father then, an international socialist and Trotskyist who believed in a 'Permanent revolution' :hehe::thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathblue
Some Trotskyists are more equal than others. :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Unelectable
Permanently in opposition
Student Grant and Millie Tant
Not knowing your dad but I'd imagine he was an old skool leftie, the type that the moderate left leaning which I think when a bit younger I would have fallen into thought they were solid, and led the way, the modern far left are different gravy, infiltrated by hate groups and the Rich Phoebe types who go around destroying paintings and glueing themselves to the road hurting the average Joe more than the establishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
What family unit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathblue
A group of happy people mostly, is this a question and answers thread ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
I think that there are a fair few on here that I would consider far left.
Jon59 is open about his beliefs and fair play to him about it.
My question of how left somebody is, come down to if they would like to see renationalization of utilities, railways etc..
Or if they just hate their counties, heritage and seeing everything wrong that their ancestors did as being wrong.
Brexit was a great yardstick.
Many people on here decided that they would all of a sudden become Welsh Nationalists as long as they could rejoin the European Union.
I used to listen to Billy Bragg a LOT.
Songs like “Between The Wars” meant so much to me, living in London then and proud of being working class.
I still stand by those values and no matter how my particular dice fall…
I will always be working class.
The working class are irrelevant now though to modern Marxism as Colour, Creed, Islam, Gender are their way to take the fight forward once the working class was defeated. Then the working class became enemies of Modern Marxism, because they still held on to their values.
I think I’ve mentioned it on here several times but the likes of Foucault and Derrida are to blame. Their ideology has has festered and is now prospering.
Initially Post Modernism…through to intentional destruction of the West.
Ask me questions about their philosophy by all means…but please read about their views first.
I want a fair shake for all people.
The far left doesn’t.
They want to break things down and start again.
I suppose ‘far left’ means whatever the person using the term wants it to mean. For large parts of the media (not just the western media) and political, business and financial capitalist castes it means vaguely liberal or social democratic. For others it is a meaningless label of abuse - ‘those over there’!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
To my mind if it has any meaning it should describe people who want to build a better, fairer society. Those who put their trust in other people and believe in collective decision making and community. Those who fight every form of exploitation and abuse. Those who have an understanding of class conflict and the real interests of working people. Opponents of imperialism. Supporters of participatory democracy and governments (until governments are no longer needed) of the people who create the wealth and those dependent on them. It is about stopping obscene concentrations of wealth and power - and putting the means of production, distribution and exchange into the hands of the public, not a few individuals.
It also encompasses some socially liberal views and aspirations - especially when trying to overcome centuries of entrenched discrimination and marginalisation around issues of race, sex, gender and disability.
In my view communists are people who give their lives to building communist parties - not fellow travellers who share some of their ideas and analysis. But ‘far left’ as a label for people who are to the left of mainstream social democracy (managed capitalism, modified exploitation, a little bit of public ownership - all wrapped up in the symbols of the oppressor state) is maybe a useful catch all for those who want to change the world for the better and are prepared to break physical and mental chains to do it.
Not really a fan of ‘far left’ as a description though. It makes sensible and principled ideas sound extreme when they are not. ‘Socialist’ works better for me.
Yeah the identity over class thing is very strong I think. Ironically though I would say that's more a "left" or "centre left" thing more than "far left". It's the centre left who preach all that stuff normally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue
Interesting answer although I don't think wanting a better or fairer society is the preserve of the far left, certainly not the better society part. Every ideology wants a better society, it just varies in their vision of it. If the far-left really do want a better society then they are stunningly bad at implementing it when they have an opportunity to do so!Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Same with liberal opinions. Liberalism is typically a trait of the right or centre-right, albeit primarily in an economic sense.
It is so difficult to define these things though. Even the word socialist literally spans the spectrum from far-right to far-left and everything inbetween. I would personally call (democratic) socialism "left wing" not "far-left"
More 'far left' (aka rational, sane and reasonable) sense, optimism and fight from Bernie Sanders:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...bernie-sanders
This bit really struck home:
While Trump moves us away from democracy, while the middle class continues to decline, the wealthiest people in the country have never ever had it so good. Today, the three major oligarchs, Musk, Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg, are worth $905bn – that is more wealth than the bottom half of American society – 170 million people. And, incredibly, since Trump’s election their wealth has grown by $217bn.
And this:
Trumpism has significant control over large parts of the media from which millions of Americans get their information. Fox and Musk’s platform X, among others, are not normal media outlets. Their basic function is not to cover the “news” but to spread rightwing extremist ideology.
Trumpism is utilizing the concept of the “big lie” in a way that has never, in this country, been seen. Day after day, blatantly dishonest statements and conspiracy theories are propagated – and repeated over and over and over again.
Trumpism does not believe in democracy or the rule of law. Trump recently posted: “He who saves his Country does not violate any Law.” In other words, Trump believes that he can do anything he wants for any reason. He can ignore Congress or the courts. He is above the law.
But, while Trump consolidates power into his own hands, there is another reality going on.
Today, 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck; millions are earning starvation wages; 85 million are uninsured or under-insured; young people are unable to afford the cost of college; 25% of seniors live on $15,000 a year or less; we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major country on earth, and we have a major shortage in low-income and affordable housing.
Oh, and by the way, we’re losing the struggle against the climate crisis – an existential threat to the future of the planet.
Lot of that is quite questionable, but Bernie is a pretty consistent and compelling politician and does so in a dignified way normally.
More to the point though, I don't think people would label Bernie Sanders 'far-left' would they? Again, he would be firmly in the 'left-wing' camp for me.
Senator Bernie Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist, has faced scrutiny over his personal assets and campaign contributions.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Personal Residences: Sanders owns three homes:
A primary residence in Chittenden County, Vermont.
A townhouse in Washington, D.C., facilitating his duties as a U.S. Senator.
A vacation home on Lake Champlain in Vermont, purchased in 2016.
With some tight budgeting it's fairly trivial to turn a government salary into 3 luxury homes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathblue
I don’t think Sanders is ‘far left’ at all - which is why I used inverted commas. But he is frequently described that way in US media and social media. Mind you, those same people think Hillary Clinton is a communist and Donald Trump believes in democracy!Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
That's far too academicQuote:
Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue
It's interesting if political analysis is your thing
I am not far left I will never ever vote Tory though