Welsh people culturally

Why are we Welsh people so polarised when it comes to being staunchly proud, get arsey when people don't recognise Wales as a country internationally etc but then such p*ssies when it comes to being treated fairly by the "UK" government? These are just a few examples;

Crown estate - Why does Scotland/NI get these profits but Wales not? Not to mention the 100s of years of mineral extraction and still ongoing with the £1 a year England pay for water, while Welsh water bills seem to go up massively.

HS2 - This is an absolute robbery but we complain enough about the Senedd wasting money then let Westminter get away with this. I honestly couldn't see any other country paying for another countries rail project like this anywhere in the world. There should be riots in the streets. £4billion could pay for 26,000 nurses for 4 years!

Covid treasury support - See above, absolutely incredible that people could ever believe it's an equal union when Wales gets rejected welfare funding for the firebreak lockdown then England gets it 2 weeks later when it follows suit.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy4v7kwernmo


There's plenty that people in power in Wales get wrong but at least they're trying to improve Welsh peoples lives, not just downright rejecting them support when the need is clearly there and they have no argument not to provide.


It's not something that I'll honestly ever have to deal with as I moved to Australia for better opportunities and will now never return but it's something I just can't wrap my head around. Welsh people gobble up shit like this from the UK government then complain endlessly that things are getting worse, more expensive etc.

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Originally Posted by Wozza16

Why are we Welsh people so polarised when it comes to being staunchly proud, get arsey when people don't recognise Wales as a country internationally etc but then such p*ssies when it comes to being treated fairly by the "UK" government? These are just a few examples;

Crown estate - Why does Scotland/NI get these profits but Wales not? Not to mention the 100s of years of mineral extraction and still ongoing with the £1 a year England pay for water, while Welsh water bills seem to go up massively.

HS2 - This is an absolute robbery but we complain enough about the Senedd wasting money then let Westminter get away with this. I honestly couldn't see any other country paying for another countries rail project like this anywhere in the world. There should be riots in the streets. £4billion could pay for 26,000 nurses for 4 years!

Covid treasury support - See above, absolutely incredible that people could ever believe it's an equal union when Wales gets rejected welfare funding for the firebreak lockdown then England gets it 2 weeks later when it follows suit.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy4v7kwernmo


There's plenty that people in power in Wales get wrong but at least they're trying to improve Welsh peoples lives, not just downright rejecting them support when the need is clearly there and they have no argument not to provide.


It's not something that I'll honestly ever have to deal with as I moved to Australia for better opportunities and will now never return but it's something I just can't wrap my head around. Welsh people gobble up shit like this from the UK government then complain endlessly that things are getting worse, more expensive etc.

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I've always thought it strange that the most patriotic Welsh people, are those who have left for a better life. Is that action speaking louder than words :hehe: I'd love to live in Perth and would support the Dockers in favour of the Eagles. I think you have done a great thing in leaving this shithole, the Welsh government were more draconian that their English counterparts during the lockdown, and this current UK government despises their citizens more than any other government during my lifetime, enjoy your time in Australia but please no lecturing on how the Kunts in power here are trying their best for us, they aint.

Welsh patriots like Bryn terfyl and the Plaid Cymru fella who has recently passed away going on and on about being so proud to be Welsh, about the invaders from over the border exploiting us etc

And then supporting Manchester United ......a proudly ENGLISH football team based in one of ENGLANDS biggest cities

What an absolute load of bollocks

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

I've always thought it strange that the most patriotic Welsh people, are those who have left for a better life. Is that action speaking louder than words :hehe: I'd love to live in Perth and would support the Dockers in favour of the Eagles. I think you have done a great thing in leaving this shithole, the Welsh government were more draconian that their English counterparts during the lockdown, and this current UK government despises their citizens more than any other government during my lifetime, enjoy your time in Australia but please no lecturing on how the Kunts in power here are trying their best for us, they aint.

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Thatchers government liked the Welsh?

Yeah OK

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Originally Posted by Wozza16

Why are we Welsh people so polarised when it comes to being staunchly proud, get arsey when people don't recognise Wales as a country internationally etc but then such p*ssies when it comes to being treated fairly by the "UK" government? These are just a few examples;

Crown estate - Why does Scotland/NI get these profits but Wales not? Not to mention the 100s of years of mineral extraction and still ongoing with the £1 a year England pay for water, while Welsh water bills seem to go up massively.

HS2 - This is an absolute robbery but we complain enough about the Senedd wasting money then let Westminter get away with this. I honestly couldn't see any other country paying for another countries rail project like this anywhere in the world. There should be riots in the streets. £4billion could pay for 26,000 nurses for 4 years!

Covid treasury support - See above, absolutely incredible that people could ever believe it's an equal union when Wales gets rejected welfare funding for the firebreak lockdown then England gets it 2 weeks later when it follows suit.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy4v7kwernmo


There's plenty that people in power in Wales get wrong but at least they're trying to improve Welsh peoples lives, not just downright rejecting them support when the need is clearly there and they have no argument not to provide.


It's not something that I'll honestly ever have to deal with as I moved to Australia for better opportunities and will now never return but it's something I just can't wrap my head around. Welsh people gobble up shit like this from the UK government then complain endlessly that things are getting worse, more expensive etc.

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I think the Welsh are very good at grabbing the parts of culture that they like then basically being like lemmings when it comes to the rest

I mean if the Welsh language which is obviously very important wether you speak it or not has been attacked over the years by central government .....and it clearly has ......especially by The Conservative Party .....then how on earth can ANY person proud of their language , who speaks their language and is proud of their heritage ......vote conservative or in plenty of cases vote reform ��

It's laughable

A few times a year out come the Welsh rugby shirts , hate the English then go back to voting conservative and now reform

Absolute joke ��

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Thatchers government liked the Welsh?

Yeah OK

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Not at all and i never said she did but you knew that and went for a swerve.

A lot of things about national identity (beyond the sporting realm, which is largely fun) is illusory, methinks.
We are all mongrels and we have more in common with people of our own humble status elsewhere than we had with the rulers who lauded it over us and foisted their symbology upon us, whether it be the Welsh feathers (originally from Bohemia), the motto 'Ich dien' (German), the red dragon (a mythical beast) and a patron saint sanctified for a mound appearing beneath his feet in order for him to preach effectively (the church having been foisted upon is by Rome in the first instance).
We seem to have an image of Wales set in amber and in a certain point in time - and we forget that the Celts were immigrants from the Continent.
Like people in many countries, we remember military victories and heroic defeats as markers of our collective culture.
The Welsh oiften like to distance themselves from the British Empire whilst singing Men of Harlech, a ditty used in the film 'Zulu' when the local tourists were picking off the local tribesmen.
Identity is often about what we feel and what we associate with rather than anything else. Discuss :-)

Identity is about how we feel about ourselves and our roots, and is probably riddled with contradictions.

I was born in Wales but lived almost all of my life in England. I don't have many ingrained memories of Cardiff from my childhood - but I do have some (we stayed with grandparents in Cardiff regularly and came back to Wales on holiday). But from my earliest memories I have identified as from Cardiff and Wales (my unfortunate brother was born in Shrewsbury so has had an identity crisis all his life!). That feeling got deeper and stronger over time.

For me it is partly to do with history and a sense of injustice in the way Wales and its language and culture were crushed and subsumed into England (no act of union for us, unlike Scotland or Ireland). It was Owain Glydwr, Dic Penderyn, the Newport Rising, the Black Domain, the ethnic and national melting pot of South Wales, pride in the Fed, shame at the race riots, Nye Bevan, Cardiff City and Welsh rugby in the golden age. It was also exposure to low level anti-Welsh jokes and abuse from certain types of English twats - in my experience laddish suits in the construction industry.

Pride in roots, memories, a sense of place, protection of language and culture (I don't speak Welsh - but half my family do), a drive to assert that identity and push back against repression of all sorts defines small nation nationalism for me. It is resistance. Big nation nationalism is quite different. It can have some benign features and also be about maintenance of cultures, but it is often aggressive, imperialist and oppressive. There is a world of difference between Welsh, Basque or Palestinian nationalism on one hand and English, Russian or American nationalism on the other.

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

Not at all and i never said she did but you knew that and went for a swerve.

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You are clearly having a swipe at Welsh Labour and the current government intimating it hates its citizens more than any other

That's your opinion and I think your opinion is nonsense and loads of people who remember what Thatcher was like would put her government way above the admittedly poor show we have now

You silly plum

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

A lot of things about national identity (beyond the sporting realm, which is largely fun) is illusory, methinks.
We are all mongrels and we have more in common with people of our own humble status elsewhere than we had with the rulers who lauded it over us and foisted their symbology upon us, whether it be the Welsh feathers (originally from Bohemia), the motto 'Ich dien' (German), the red dragon (a mythical beast) and a patron saint sanctified for a mound appearing beneath his feet in order for him to preach effectively (the church having been foisted upon is by Rome in the first instance).
We seem to have an image of Wales set in amber and in a certain point in time - and we forget that the Celts were immigrants from the Continent.
Like people in many countries, we remember military victories and heroic defeats as markers of our collective culture.
The Welsh oiften like to distance themselves from the British Empire whilst singing Men of Harlech, a ditty used in the film 'Zulu' when the local tourists were picking off the local tribesmen.
Identity is often about what we feel and what we associate with rather than anything else. Discuss :-)

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Absolutely spot on TBF, TBG. A great post.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You are clearly having a swipe at Welsh Labour and the current government intimating it hates its citizens more than any other

That's your opinion and I think your opinion is nonsense and loads of people who remember what Thatcher was like would put her government way above the admittedly poor show we have now

You silly plum

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Have you had another clot shot ?.

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Originally Posted by Wozza16

It's not something that I'll honestly ever have to deal with as I moved to Australia for better opportunities and will now never return but it's something I just can't wrap my head around. Welsh people gobble up shit like this from the UK government then complain endlessly that things are getting worse, more expensive etc.

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It's worse than you think, even the things that used to be good have turned to shit!

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

It's worse than you think, even the things that used to be good have turned to shit!

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Apparently it's Maggie's fault. How long has she been brown bread ?

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Identity is about how we feel about ourselves and our roots, and is probably riddled with contradictions.

I was born in Wales but lived almost all of my life in England. I don't have many ingrained memories of Cardiff from my childhood - but I do have some (we stayed with grandparents in Cardiff regularly and came back to Wales on holiday). But from my earliest memories I have identified as from Cardiff and Wales (my unfortunate brother was born in Shrewsbury so has had an identity crisis all his life!). That feeling got deeper and stronger over time.

For me it is partly to do with history and a sense of injustice in the way Wales and its language and culture were crushed and subsumed into England (no act of union for us, unlike Scotland or Ireland). It was Owain Glydwr, Dic Penderyn, the Newport Rising, the Black Domain, the ethnic and national melting pot of South Wales, pride in the Fed, shame at the race riots, Nye Bevan, Cardiff City and Welsh rugby in the golden age. It was also exposure to low level anti-Welsh jokes and abuse from certain types of English twats - in my experience laddish suits in the construction industry.

Pride in roots, memories, a sense of place, protection of language and culture (I don't speak Welsh - but half my family do), a drive to assert that identity and push back against repression of all sorts defines small nation nationalism for me. It is resistance. Big nation nationalism is quite different. It can have some benign features and also be about maintenance of cultures, but it is often aggressive, imperialist and oppressive. There is a world of difference between Welsh, Basque or Palestinian nationalism on one hand and English, Russian or American nationalism on the other.

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Top post. A lot of great points there, we are a country who have suffered and been suppressed to the point of national submission rather a revolt nature of previous centuries.

Definitely didn't think I'd see Fremantle Dockers mentioned in this thread! They're much better than the Eagles in the past few seasons.

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Originally Posted by Wozza16

Top post. A lot of great points there, we are a country who have suffered and been suppressed to the point of national submission rather a revolt nature of previous centuries.

Definitely didn't think I'd see Fremantle Dockers mentioned in this thread! They're much better than the Eagles in the past few seasons.

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As far as I am concerned if people are going to talk about the pride in being Welsh, in Welsh culture and in the Welsh language then they need to walk the walk when it comes to probably the most visible show of passion and identity ......sport

So anyone playing this card loses all credibility when they vote conservative or reform.... or suck up to English football teams like Daffyd Ellis Thomas and the like

It's pathetic

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Identity is about how we feel about ourselves and our roots, and is probably riddled with contradictions.

I was born in Wales but lived almost all of my life in England. I don't have many ingrained memories of Cardiff from my childhood - but I do have some (we stayed with grandparents in Cardiff regularly and came back to Wales on holiday). But from my earliest memories I have identified as from Cardiff and Wales (my unfortunate brother was born in Shrewsbury so has had an identity crisis all his life!). That feeling got deeper and stronger over time.

For me it is partly to do with history and a sense of injustice in the way Wales and its language and culture were crushed and subsumed into England (no act of union for us, unlike Scotland or Ireland). It was Owain Glydwr, Dic Penderyn, the Newport Rising, the Black Domain, the ethnic and national melting pot of South Wales, pride in the Fed, shame at the race riots, Nye Bevan, Cardiff City and Welsh rugby in the golden age. It was also exposure to low level anti-Welsh jokes and abuse from certain types of English twats - in my experience laddish suits in the construction industry.

Pride in roots, memories, a sense of place, protection of language and culture (I don't speak Welsh - but half my family do), a drive to assert that identity and push back against repression of all sorts defines small nation nationalism for me. It is resistance. Big nation nationalism is quite different. It can have some benign features and also be about maintenance of cultures, but it is often aggressive, imperialist and oppressive. There is a world of difference between Welsh, Basque or Palestinian nationalism on one hand and English, Russian or American nationalism on the other.

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There's none so patriotic as someone who has always lived away from their perceived roots :-)

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

There's none so patriotic as someone who has always lived away from their perceived roots :-)

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Liverpudlians

The Irish

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

There's none so patriotic as someone who has always lived away from their perceived roots :-)

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I hope you're not taking the piss out of my daffodil hat? :hehe:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I hope you're not taking the piss out of my daffodil hat? :hehe:

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If you have got one of those please keep it in a box under the stairs

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

If you have got one of those please keep it in a box under the stairs

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I have just checked and am happy to report I do not own a daffodil hat, have never owned (or worn) a daffodil hat, and think that the people who wear them at the big rugby 'events' look proper stupid.

I do though have a fine collection of Wales football bucket hats!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I hope you're not taking the piss out of my daffodil hat? :hehe:

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Surely not. I'm sure that you are as genuine as all those who take part in New York's St Patrick Day's Parade :-)

By the way, regarding the subject of perceived identity, I remember reading in the German magazine 'Stern' about a chap who was born illegitimate and whose mother was made pregnant around the end of World War II.

She lived in what was to become the GDR and informed her son that she was taken advantage of by an American soldier, who had duly disappeared after a quick pecadillo. Growing up in East Germany the son felt different to his peers regarding his status but came to take an interest in his American roots. He couldn't identify his father but he started collecting trinkets in the way of cap badges and other paraphernalia. When he became an adult he even got hold of an old American car and embraced his 'otherness' as it were.

That was until his mother was on her death bed and when she advised him that she had been raped by a Russian soldier but felt that it wouldn't be helpful in the circumstances to relate that to the communist authorities.

P.S. Should we really be proud of our roots when we had no say in what happened in history? And, equally, should young Germans, for example, have any shame regarding the actions of their forefathers as it's the other half of the same coin.......

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I have just checked and am happy to report I do not own a daffodil hat, have never owned (or worn) a daffodil hat, and think that the people who wear them at the big rugby 'events' look proper stupid.

I do though have a fine collection of Wales football bucket hats!

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Your criticism of people who live in Wales and attend rugby matches in such apparell has been noted. You are now on the hitlist of the Tafia.:wales:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I have just checked and am happy to report I do not own a daffodil hat, have never owned (or worn) a daffodil hat, and think that the people who wear them at the big rugby 'events' look proper stupid.

I do though have a fine collection of Wales football bucket hats!

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Bucket hats are great

I know a woman who is a raving tory , born in Radyr , wears one of those stupid daffodil hats twice a year and also a " valley girl " t shirt

When Thatcher shut the pits I bet she was clapping

Patriotism eh

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Your criticism of people who live in Wales and attend rugby matches in such apparell has been noted. You are now on the hitlist of the Tafia.:wales:

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They can wear what they want but they look utterly stupid

Red and white hats and scarves are fine

It's the part time fake , pick what I want out of being Welsh that I find pathetic

It's no good singing the Welsh national anthem or y hyd and it's superb lyrics about resistance if you vote conservative .....who have trampled all over Wales and we're totally opposed to a Welsh government and instead of getting behind ALL Welsh sport ......drone on and on about Welsh rugby yet shun the local Welsh football sides

Once you do that ones claims to being patriotic or culturally Welsh are null and void

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

There's none so patriotic as someone who has always lived away from their perceived roots :-)

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Surely not. I'm sure that you are as genuine as all those who take part in New York's St Patrick Day's Parade :-)

P.S. Should we really be proud of our roots when we had no say in what happened in history? And, equally, should young Germans, for example, have any shame regarding the actions of their forefathers as it's the other half of the same coin.......

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This might be an interesting discussion if it stays on the subject that Wozza began.

I have never described myself as patriotic. That to me implies 'false pride' and 'my country right or wrong'. Samuel Johnson's line 'patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel' is still true today - although he used that as a put down of Pitt's misuse of 'patriotism' for political purposes.

A sense of identity or of roots does not require pride or patriotism. As I said above I feel both pride and shame at different parts of Welsh history - but mainly connection. Whether we had a say or not in what made our nation seems to be missing the point. Identity is not all about personal achievement - it is a messy and often irrational and confused set of emotional ties. I don't see the point in over-analysing that.

Also I'm not convinced that New York Irish and Sheffield Welsh have the same experience. One is about people who have mainly never set foot in Ireland, distance, disconnect, 'Old Country' tales, plastic shamrocks, franchise Guinness and a background of Tammany Hall and the NYPD (similar in Boston). The other is about a short drive to the border, watching my team at away grounds close to my home and walking the streets of Cardiff up to a dozen times a year!

And our bucket hats are better!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

This might be an interesting discussion if it stays on the subject that Wozza began.

I have never described myself as patriotic. That to me implies 'false pride' and 'my country right or wrong'. Samuel Johnson's line 'patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel' is still true today - although he used that as a put down of Pitt's misuse of 'patriotism' for political purposes.

A sense of identity or of roots does not require pride or patriotism. As I said above I feel both pride and shame at different parts of Welsh history - but mainly connection. Whether we had a say or not in what made our nation seems to be missing the point. Identity is not all about personal achievement - it is a messy and often irrational and confused set of emotional ties. I don't see the point in over-analysing that.

Also I'm not convinced that New York Irish and Sheffield Welsh have the same experience. One is about people who have mainly never set foot in Ireland, distance, disconnect, 'Old Country' tales, plastic shamrocks, franchise Guinness and a background of Tammany Hall and the NYPD (similar in Boston). The other is about a short drive to the border, watching my team at away grounds close to my home and walking the streets of Cardiff up to a dozen times a year!

And our bucket hats are better!

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By the way, I have a friend whose first language is Welsh, she teaches Ethnography in a Welsh university and wears a daffodil hat to rugby games. She would be described as rather faux Welsh by a certain individual* on here without knowing her background.

*Not you, of course!

By the way, I think you have no equal on here regarding your contributions and knowledge!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

This might be an interesting discussion if it stays on the subject that Wozza began.

I have never described myself as patriotic. That to me implies 'false pride' and 'my country right or wrong'. Samuel Johnson's line 'patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel' is still true today - although he used that as a put down of Pitt's misuse of 'patriotism' for political purposes.

A sense of identity or of roots does not require pride or patriotism. As I said above I feel both pride and shame at different parts of Welsh history - but mainly connection. Whether we had a say or not in what made our nation seems to be missing the point. Identity is not all about personal achievement - it is a messy and often irrational and confused set of emotional ties. I don't see the point in over-analysing that.

Also I'm not convinced that New York Irish and Sheffield Welsh have the same experience. One is about people who have mainly never set foot in Ireland, distance, disconnect, 'Old Country' tales, plastic shamrocks, franchise Guinness and a background of Tammany Hall and the NYPD (similar in Boston). The other is about a short drive to the border, watching my team at away grounds close to my home and walking the streets of Cardiff up to a dozen times a year!

And our bucket hats are better!

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Agree with a lot of this but why do you interpret it as a "false pride" ?

Patriotism is just the word for love of ones country, no? I view it as such, in much the same way as one can love their family or city or community etc. it doesn't mean refusing to accept their many flaws.

I'm not sure if I'm patriotic. I want the best for my country but feel quite sad for it too and feel we have less and less holding us all together. I actually feel quite lost identity wise tbh. Even Cardiff City is lessened since the rebrand.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

By the way, I have a friend whose first language is Welsh, she teaches Ethnography in a Welsh university and wears a daffodil hat to rugby games. She would be described as rather faux Welsh by a certain individual* on here without knowing her background.

*Not you, of course!

By the way, I think you have no equal on here regarding your contributions and knowledge!

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Well that would be of course bollocks

If a person has Welsh as a first language, teaches ethnography at a Welsh university and wears a Welsh rugby daffodil or whatever then I would prefer she threw the daft hat away but she's clearly not a faux Taffy is she ?

But if she spent every Saturday during the football season ignoring Welsh teams to kiss the arse of English sides she would be exactly the sort of running with the horse and hounds type that deserves ridicule

It's really not difficult to rationalise even for a person who has an air of academic superiority like yourself

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Agree with a lot of this but why do you interpret it as a "false pride" ?

Patriotism is just the word for love of ones country, no? I view it as such, in much the same way as one can love their family or city or community etc. it doesn't mean refusing to accept their many flaws.

I'm not sure if I'm patriotic. I want the best for my country but feel quite sad for it too and feel we have less and less holding us all together. I actually feel quite lost identity wise tbh. Even Cardiff City is lessened since the rebrand.

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I find it very difficult to have any sort of connection with a Welsh football fan at CCS wearing a Welsh bucket hat who then spends the rest of the week on a man united or Liverpool fc forum and his Facebook page is full of mo salah nonsense

And he's born and bred in Canton

It's this sort of cobblers that brings patriotism down to its knees

Wales is full of these types

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well that would be of course bollocks

If a person has Welsh as a first language, teaches ethnography at a Welsh university and wears a Welsh rugby daffodil or whatever then I would prefer she threw the daft hat away but she's clearly not a faux Taffy is she ?

But if she spent every Saturday during the football season ignoring Welsh teams to kiss the arse of English sides she would be exactly the sort of running with the horse and hounds type that deserves ridicule

It's really not difficult to rationalise even for a person who has an air of academic superiority like yourself

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Thanks for rationalising!

Another factor is the extent to which national identity defines each person.

For some it is everything. For TBG it seems it barely registers. I think for most of us it is just one of several/many different factors that make up our sense of ourselves - of who we are.

In my mind it is like a venn diagram of all my tribal affiliations (some inherited, some adopted as a conscious decision). Wales and Cardiff and Cardiff City are big ones, but so are my politics, the city where I live, the music and books and films that have influenced me or that I love, and family and friends.... and possibly other factors too.

I am Welsh but I have more in common with people in Belgium or Argentina or India who share my views and have similar life experiences than with reactionaries and new robber barons who happen to be Welsh and watched the Morcambe and Wise Christmas Special at the same time I did. When we talk about 'we' and 'us' that is not defined by having the same passport cover. There are Welsh people who are not 'us' to me and many people in other parts of the world who are.

I was born in Wales so I am regionally Welsh but simultaneously I was born in the UK so my nationality is British. I am not bonded by the heart to either. Above those I am European, Homo Sapien and a resident of Earth. All of which, particularly the latter being far more important IMO. Nationality and Regionality are mere administrative constructs with this strange concept of patriotism simply a means to enlist conscripts to war with alternative administrations whose ideals may happen to be at odds with our local administration's objectives.

It would be incomprehensible and absurd if I as an avowed Socialist should align myself with Welsh, British, (placeholder) rich capitalists against the mutual struggles of fellow genuine Socialists from alternative regimes.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Another factor is the extent to which national identity defines each person.

For some it is everything. For TBG it seems it barely registers. I think for most of us it is just one of several/many different factors that make up our sense of ourselves - of who we are.

In my mind it is like a venn diagram of all my tribal affiliations (some inherited, some adopted as a conscious decision). Wales and Cardiff and Cardiff City are big ones, but so are my politics, the city where I live, the music and books and films that have influenced me or that I love, and family and friends.... and possibly other factors too.

I am Welsh but I have more in common with people in Belgium or Argentina or India who share my views and have similar life experiences than with reactionaries and new robber barons who happen to be Welsh and watched the Morcambe and Wise Christmas Special at the same time I did. When we talk about 'we' and 'us' that is not defined by having the same passport cover. There are Welsh people who are not 'us' to me and many people in other parts of the world who are.

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It does actually register with me as I'm actually a halfway house, as it were:-). I was being a tad provocative as I do buy into some of the nationalistic side of it - whilst also seeing some of the illogical aspects

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Thanks for rationalising!

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You are very welcome you pompous old fruit

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Another factor is the extent to which national identity defines each person.

For some it is everything. For TBG it seems it barely registers. I think for most of us it is just one of several/many different factors that make up our sense of ourselves - of who we are.

In my mind it is like a venn diagram of all my tribal affiliations (some inherited, some adopted as a conscious decision). Wales and Cardiff and Cardiff City are big ones, but so are my politics, the city where I live, the music and books and films that have influenced me or that I love, and family and friends.... and possibly other factors too.

I am Welsh but I have more in common with people in Belgium or Argentina or India who share my views and have similar life experiences than with reactionaries and new robber barons who happen to be Welsh and watched the Morcambe and Wise Christmas Special at the same time I did. When we talk about 'we' and 'us' that is not defined by having the same passport cover. There are Welsh people who are not 'us' to me and many people in other parts of the world who are.

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Aye ��