All laying the blame firmly on Tan, Dalman and Choo this morning:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...s/c20x21n20zno
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...nored-30662696
https://www.ccfctrust.org/public-sta...porters-trust/
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All laying the blame firmly on Tan, Dalman and Choo this morning:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...s/c20x21n20zno
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...nored-30662696
https://www.ccfctrust.org/public-sta...porters-trust/
The Trust especially surprised me, but it's a welcome surprise.
Disagree with the trust specifically mentioning ramsey and not giving him the job. Seems a step too far especially as I can't remember them specifically saying not to give it to riza or hudson or morison the way they have done with ramsey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undercoverinwurzelland
I get the point about needing league 1 experience but as someone else said mckenna at Ipswich had never been a number 1 before. I know he was ole number 2 though but still.
I agree with the main body just not sure why they've added the extra paragraphs and ramsey is the only one they've named not to give the job to- they didn't mention purse ramasut etc?
And I do, think too much is being made of a new manager having to have experience- we’ve recently appointed bad experienced managers as well as bad inexperienced ones. We just need a good, effective manager - whether they’re 25 or 75 doesn’t bother me much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Not sure about the need to rush something out less than a day after relegation - would it have been better to have let the dust settle for a few days first?
This paragraph is ridiculous and surely they will edit. What on earth are they on about?
"We thank Aaron Ramsey for stepping into an ultimately unsuccessful position as caretaker manager for the last three games of the season. However, we strongly believe that for the next season in League One we need an experienced manager at that level, possibly with Aaron playing a part in an assistant role to pick up experience (similar to Craig Bellamy under Vincent Kompany at Burnley and Anderlecht)."
Ok so the trust have specifically said ramsey should support someone else like bellamy did at anderlecht.
Well guess what? Kompany was 34 when he became anderlecht manager. :hehe: the same age as ramsey is now. Kompany is only 39 now ffs!
It's literally the worst example they could possibly have used and made themselves look total idiots whoever wrote that. Clueless even. :hehe:
Anyone else get a server error on the tust link?
I think it's fair game for the trust or anyone to have a pop at dalman choo and Tan. Those 3 deserve everything and more and no reflection is needed to do that as it's nothing different to what people have been saying for a decade or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Why on earth they have specifically asked for ramsey not to get the job is a disgrace though especially making themselves look so stupid by using kompany as the other example.
Hopefully they have reflected quickly and are deleting as it's appalling.Quote:
Originally Posted by cantonboy
Sadly not, it worked eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Really does play into the hands of those continually knocking the Trust.
Stupid to add that.
I’m not disagreeing with going at Tan, Dalman and Choo with both barrels, just wondering if it might have been better to wait until, say, Tuesday to see if there was any response from the club to the relegation. Im not sure there’s a right or wrong answer to it because I’m sure there would be those who would be critical if the Trust had decided to hold fire for a day or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Good article by Glen Johnson I thought.
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by cantonboy
And ramseys period in charge being "ultimately unsuccessful"?!
Any need for that?! 2 draws in 2 games and at the very least hasnt made things worse. Why add "ultimately unsuccessful" in the context of the last 10 years or so for 2 undefeated games under ramsey!
Just one normal day. Just one, it's all I ask for.
Full statement as website is down
Public Statement from the Board of Cardiff City Supporters` Trust
We are dedicated fans of Cardiff City FC, some of us have supported the club through thick and thin for more than 60 years.
However, we could not let the dreadful relegation to League One after more than 20 years in higher divisions go without comment. Relegation in all honest has been coming since the 2021-22 season and the failure to address fundamental required changes from the top down has now come home to roost.
Unless these matters are tackled urgently, the downward spiral on and off the field will continue and fan support will continue to drift away at an even faster rate than it has already.
Of course we appreciate the enormous financial support from the club owner Vincent Tan which has led to promotion to the Premier League on two occasions. But there has been a complete failure to address the “elephants in the room” of a lack of specialist football experience and knowledge at club Board level and the lack of any full time Board director at the club, leading to an apparent lack of advice and knowledge to pass on to the owner.
As the season has progressed and it quickly became evident that things were not going to plan on the pitch, it has been far from clear who on the club Board, if anyone, has been advising the owner on footballing matters. If any such advice and recommendations have in fact been given, it is unclear if any notice has been taken of such advice and recommendations.
Sadly, this has proved to be a critical element in the club`s relegation in our view as the seemingly absolute and unchallengeable power of the owner in all major decisions has failed to work to the club`s benefit.
The appointment of a club Board member with specialist football knowledge and experience has been raised by the Trust with the club CEO Ken Choo and club Chair Mehmet Dalman and has also been raised by the other elected official fan bodies Cardiff City Supporters Club, the Fan Advisory Board (FAB) and the Disabled Supporters’ Association.
Those officials have stated in meetings with fan bodies that they would be in favour of such an appointment but that the owner has been steadfastly against the idea, and he remains the sole decision maker. It seems to us that most of the strategic decision making at the club by the owner has been made in what is, effectively, an empirical knowledge and information vacuum.
After the worst start to a season in the club`s history and the expected departure of manager Erol Bulut, we believe it was a mistake to appoint such an inexperienced Championship manager as Omer Riza when there many experienced managers available to recruit.
We are also unclear as to whether the permanent appointment of Omer Riza after an inordinate delay and after a series of poor performances and results was based on a Board decision/recommendation or was solely a decision by the owner and on what criteria that decision was made.
We thank Aaron Ramsey for stepping into an ultimately unsuccessful position as caretaker manager for the last three games of the season. However, we strongly believe that for the next season in League One we need an experienced manager at that level, possibly with Aaron playing a part in an assistant role to pick up experience (similar to Craig Bellamy under Vincent Kompany at Burnley and Anderlecht).
We are also disappointed that Vincent Tan has made only minimal and very infrequent contact with the club fans to discuss issues and listen to fans views and concerns. There has therefore been virtually no opportunity for fans to speak to the person who appears to be the sole decision maker on key issues at the club.
As a matter of urgency we are requesting a meeting between Vincent Tan and the elected fan bodies to discuss the failings which have culminated in our relegation to hear what fundamental changes are going to be put in place throughout the club from top to bottom to avoid further failings in future. Continuing the failings of the past that have led to us celebrating our 125th anniversary with a relegation are not going to turn around our fortunes on the pitch.”
Big changes are needed, and needed now, to avoid a further downward spiral in the fortunes of the club that we fans love.
The trust have been around for what 16 years? I can't ever remember them issuing a statement specifically asking for someone not to be appointed before?
And they made that first person Aaron ramsey. Genius fair play.
Who are the experienced League 1 managers who would meet the Trusts approval.?
I think we needed an experienced Championship manager last season to steer us to safety.
Well they missed that opportunity.
We now have to rebuild from the lower leagues. I'm not against an experienced manager but I'd rather a young ambitious manager who can get us up in a few seasons and when we do have a side who can compete again at the top.
Who are these experienced L1 managers? Those brothers who were at Lincoln? Steve Evans? Duff?
If we get Steve Evans or Michael Duff I'm blaming them.🤣Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Ipswich appointed an inexperienced manager in League 1 and things worked out pretty well for them. I’d rather go down that route than appoint Ian Holloway.
Birmingham have just got promoted with over 100 points in league 1. Their manager? Had never managed anyone before last August. :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Guess the trust would be against someone like that also? Joking aside they are clueless.
The problem with riza wasn't experience!!! He didn't just need some time to develop!
He should never ever have been anywhere near the job and will never be anywhere near managing at this level or anywhere near ever again. Same as hudson trollope and morison who also won't be. It's not experience that was the issue.
Yup, that's a shitty thing to say, not that i'm defending Ramsey in this, i have no loyalty to him or any of the players, coaching taff etc, they can all go as far as i'm concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Maybe wrong but not sure I have seen that type of tone before from Glen Williams or anyone else at WOL for that matter and if that's the case whilst I didn't disagree with anything he says might have been better doing an article like that soonerQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
For me personally I want to know that the "leadership" gets it and is starting to plan already as they have a head start of a week on anyone else threatened with relegation and hope they use it to the best advantage - not convinced they will and as we all know it's the hope that kills you
I'm sure Holloway will apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grangenders
Gareth Ainsworth , Steve Cotterill. L1 experience to satisfy the Trust?
The fact that you'd never heard of him doesn't mean he wasn't qualified for the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
He'd been assistant manager to Brendan Rodgers at Celtic and at Leicester in the Premier League.
I can't see too much wrong with that; it's factual. In fact what they go on to say in relation to Bellamy and Kompany makes a whole lot of sense. There's no slur, merely pointing to Tan and Co's experiment ultimately proving unsuccessful, which it certainly was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Who said I hadn't heard of him?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Apologies, I thought the tone of your post suggested you hadn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
If you had, you'd have know he was well qualified for a job at League One level - indeed, he's exactly the sort of appointment a forward-thinking club at that level would be looking at, similar to McKenna while Ipswich bagged him.
Um the fact kompany was 34 the same age ramsey is now and hadn't even been a coach anywhere?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
And he was the guy bellamy got his experience under?
On that logic we should be looking at someone like bellamy was then to get their experience supporting ramsey as manager now?
No the trust specifically said they strongly believe we have to appoint someone with league 1 experience. Which would have ruled out chris davies and mckenna.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
The Trust reps foolishly keep shooting themselves in the foot. I wish I could claim back the countless hours I spent helping to set the bloody thing up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
I just have no idea at all why they have felt the need to comment specifically on their criteria for the next manager 18 hours or so after relegation confirmed.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
As we all know it's not the issue anyway. Whoever is appointed/lumbered with it- unless other huge changes it will be more of the same. Even if they did get their dream and we appointed ian Holloway. :wink:
I'm not as exercised as most seem to be about the managerial statement. It might have been better if it had not been mentioned at all but it is an important issue and it may well be dealt with by the owner who has proved himself to be more "clueless" than us suffering fans. Careful consideration needs to go in to the next managerial appointment with appropriate experience a key factor but not cheapness or even sentimentality. Quite who is going to provide that advice to the owner - who knows ? The key part of the position the Trust has taken is that, in terms of relegation and the way the Club is run, all roads lead to Vincent Tan. It is likely that he is going nowhere until the Sala case is resolved so, in the meantime, he needs to change his ways big time. TOBW mentioned the timing of this release. I think that its a case of being damned if you do and damned if you don't. If the Trust was silent initially they would have got stick for that. So, what happens next ? I think they are right to ask our absentee owner to come to Cardiff and front up to fans about the way he runs the Club and what changes he is going to make. Will it happen ? I would be very surprised if it did. If a post relegation meeting does take place he will probably send his lapdog Ken Choo. The reaction from the Club will be interesting. I would imagine our owner does not react well to criticism.
Choo needs to go first and we need to appoint a full time CEO with knowledge of running a football club and a director of football who can sort out the playing side of the club and another full time director to run the other aspects of the club. I have less issue with Dalman as I think he's often as frustrated as us but doesn't have the funds to buy the club and run it himself.
This all needs to happen quickly as we need a total revamp of management, coaching, conditioning, medical and player scouting and recruitment.
As the trust admit in the statement all that will happen once again is dalman and choo will say everything the trust have said is correct and they agree but tan doesn't. And that's the end of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Mort
Who knows if its true or not but that's what has been happening for years and years.
Arteta and Pep would be the perfect example to give - fits the model the board were trying with managerial appointmentsQuote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Apologies to Glen, his surname is Williams isn’t it :facepalm:Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Yes you were probably thinking of Glenn Johnson the Australian striker who played for us in 1995/96 season.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Easy mistake to make as he's not an easy person to forget!
The barrel of the gun must have been blocked on this one and they ended up shooting themselves in the head. Good for you that you put the time into setting something like that up as I wouldn’t have invested a second of my life into that. You clearly must have thought it would make a difference… 🤦🏼Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Unfortunately I’ve always viewed these type of things as self important ‘neighbourhood watches’. Tan very obviously has no human connection with Cardiff City and I find it comical that these busybodies believe that by them demanding and having an urgent meeting with him that they could have an influence😂. The sycophantic line about his investment was awful and I fully agree with FD about the Ramsey comments. I expect those on a messageboard but not by a body that are allegedly supposed to represent the fan base. What a load of old bollocks.
Agree, I don’t think it’s their place tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
There will be some experienced managers I wouldn’t want and someone good young managers I would consider and vise versa.
Also to complete my rant.
You don't go about it finding a number 2 like ramsey and then appointing a number 1 for him to learn from. It puts everyone in an impossible position.
The new manager if it's not ramsey should have carte blanche to have the structure and team they want around them. If they want ramsey that's fine but it has to be their choice. Last thing for them would be being told you have to have ramsey as your assistant and he's going to learn from you- which is literally what the trust are asking for.
Likewise if it is ramsey he has to choose the coaches and structure he wants not be stuck with the same clowns.