A recount is taking place after the first one had Reform beating Labour by four votes.
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A recount is taking place after the first one had Reform beating Labour by four votes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Nigel by 6 😀 just another grifter.
Condolences to My sparring partner Sludge, don't worry mate, he'll follow orders from the WEF for you 👍
He's a creepy snakeQuote:
Originally Posted by Heathblue
But Farage is even worse
Maybe Starmer will get toppled by his own troops which would be great from my point of viewQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
That might with a new leader and a row back on policy win back some support
Starmer and Reeves are toxic now
But I don't see any decent candidates
The reality is there has always been an element of voters who are to the right of the tory party and if reform are at around 25 percent Labour need to get their act together if they want to be the party with the most seats at the next election
At best I would imagine a coalition with the liberals and others but without any change it's a reform / conservative government
I hope Starmer gets kicked out by his party personally and takes Reeves and the likes of Cooper and Rayner with him
Other than to kick non whites out of the UK what do reform actually stand for?
They appear to operate like a business designed to funnel money to farage and his mates from the working classes but I'm open to finding out what their policies are.
Apart from the immigration issue they say they will sort out they appeal to the MAGA MEGA votersQuote:
Originally Posted by PontBlue
I can't see their core vote shifting much
What a stupid comment. Don't you realise things like that don't work?Quote:
Originally Posted by PontBlue
Incredibly tight. Six votes in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Labour will be very disappointed but relatively content with getting three of the four mayoral races so far, esp Doncaster which could have gone to Reform perhaps.
Interesting stuff, especially seeing where votes are up and down, ie seeing which losing parties the winning parties are taking seats from.
You could have just said you are unable to answer the question. Not replying would also be a sensible approach in those circumstancesQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I'm genuinely interested in why people are voting for them.
You made up a stupid policy that doesn't exist so I don't think you are that interested. The party chairman has brown skin so it was a particularly daft thing to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by PontBlue
But people generally vote for different parties because the ones previously elected have failed to meet expectations. There is a general groundswell of opinion that people can now apply that to the Tories and Labour, so Reform and to a lesser extent the Greens will benefit from that (and Plaid in Wales I suspect).
He wants an argument doesn’t he. I’d also be fascinated to know what Reform’s policies are, much like the Brexit Party’s probably, but then what did they stand for? We know Farage doesn’t like immigrants and the EU and loves money in his pocket and Donald Trump but that’s about it really.Quote:
Originally Posted by PontBlue
How can you side with someone saying something false and provocative such as a party "wants non white people kicked out" and then accuse the other person of wanting an argument?!Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Farage is married to an immigrant. Both of you stop making things up!
Bloody ridiculous 😂😂
She's German and white!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Unfortunately it's a belief held by many in their party if the number kicked out is anything to go by but at least they are removing the bad eggs who have latched on to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I agree that people are disillusioned by labour and the Tories but I am interested as to why people think reform are the answer.
Other than immigration the only aim I've heard them state is to bring back factories which in the age of globalisation is a pipe dream that even trump will fail to achieve. The costs just don't add up.
He's seems more European than most in his choice of partners. He parted from his wife and subsequently co-habited with his present squeeze, a French politician by the name of Ferrari.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
They have a policy document on their website Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Probably a good place to start!
Ah, but have their voters actually read it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
If I was going to vote for them I certainly would!Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo
But then again how many Tory, Labour etc voters have actually read the policy documents from those parties!(
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/ref...pdf?1718625371Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
there you go -
And now they have got 5 councils including Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire!
Are manifestos worth the paper that they are printed on now?Quote:
Originally Posted by PontBlue
It seems as though the current lot in charge basically reneged on theirs as soon as they got the keys to Number 10.
While Labour will never be able to match Tory sleaze…Labour MP’s have been a having a good crack at feathering their own nests as well.
Sludge has posted in this thread that he hopes to see Starmer, Reeves, Cooper and Rayner get booted out but understands that there aren’t many competent candidates to replace them.
Ultimately, The Labour Party traded in The Working Class for a different voter base years ago.
They really couldn’t give any more of a hoot about the working class now than the Tory’s.
If Reform does (which I doubt) remains to be seen.
I’d like to see the likes of Mick Lynch, Eddie Dempsey and Paul Embery, involved in the Labour Party.
Pie in the sky stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
https://ifs.org.uk/articles/reform-u...festo-reaction
‘A win is a win’, but ‘A votes and vote share collapse is still a collapse’Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
If Labour are ‘relatively content’ they are in an even bigger hole of their own making than it looked like yesterday.
Starmerism is cowardly, toxic to Labour’s natural base let alone the wider electorate, and delusional.
The only thing this right wing cabal can hang on to is that the Tories are in an even worse state. But as the former Member for the Eighteenth Century, Jacob Rees-Mogg helpfully explained, there is almost no policy difference between that Tories and Reform - it is mostly about personalities (and a bit more explicit racism)!
I think in the long run the labour party are dead in the water and they need to form a centre left alliance with the liberals , green , independents and those in Scotland and Wales who vote snp or Plaid but are surely intelligent enough to realise that going it alone is a ridiculous ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue
The way things are going reform are likely to get more votes in Wales than Plaid so it really is a sensible plan to unite against the right wing
If Welsh culture and language is to survive its definitely not a good idea to let reform in through the back door whilst labour , liberal , Plaid, snp and greens
argue like schoolkids
As for the UK the sooner starmer and that hopeless idiot leading the liberal Democrats are thrown out the better
Need a strong middle ground and it's very weak at present
The average reform voter doesn't care about the fine detailsQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
But they will if they realise that the fragile state of the NHS will be dead as a dodo under farage
The Labour Party is bust nowQuote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Best to cobble together a sort of popular front rainbow alliance type movement and try and muddle through
He's absolutely useless and so are most of his team
I don't think any of them have got a clue and look so amateurish especially Lammy , Rayner and Streeting
With such a big majority and lots of new MPs backing him up its unlikely Starmer will walk the plank but it would be great if he did
My point is that whether Reform say this or not, they are seen by the people that vote for them as the party who will take a hard line against immigration. And that's all that matters to their voters it would seem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
Yeah tbf that was this morning, since then Labours results in the local elections have got progressively worse. Worse than I thought actually. I do think they will have acted out a scenario where they lost all the mayoral seats thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
The average reform voter is the average Labour voter from about 15 years ago. I don't think any party has supporters more or less engaged in the minutiae of local government. In my experience previously few really understand the process, unfortunatelyQuote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
that isn't really true - reform have taken more voters from the tories than they have LabourQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
But how many of those Tories were Labour until 2019 and would with a popular government have returned to them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Yeah I know, although in many parts of the country it's the other way around. The rural south has shifted more Tory to Lib Dem too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Either way, stereotypes don't really fit.
Shirley you must see, and using this current lot more than any other mob, having a manifesto means jack shit. ? I know those who went before didn't bother with implementation of their manifestos either !!!.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I know and work with a load of tradesman, all well paid, mostly Labour voters but the odd Tory (the electricians usually) and every single one I’ve spoken too in the last 3 months said they plan to vote for reform. People have had an absolute guts full of the usual two, the alternative might not be better but who knows….make Britain great again eh? :hehe:
We shouldn't be surprised about the rise of a right wing party here, as they seem to have been on the increase across many countries.
I suppose looking from the outside it's tempting to think that these are the same shysters who told us that Brexit would be a brilliant idea, whereas it has mostly been a shitshow while a lot of these people have managed to line their own pockets from it - why would anyone fall for the same shite twice?
but the underlying issues that led to brexit are still there. its harder for regular people to make a decent living while the rich get richer - and they don't think that the status quo of labour or tory will ever change this, so its a protest vote.
I think a reform government would be an absolute disaster for the working man though - low tax and cut backs to public services. Austerity +
Hull and East Yorkshire Mayor..
Reform: 48,491
LibDems: 37,510
Tories: 21,393
Labour: 18,568
Green: 5,049
Yorkshire Party: 4,372
Things have definitely changed. Not just today, it's been changing for years but accelerated today. It used to be people would turn to the Lib Dems as protest but there are now other viable options that don't count as wasted votes.
The labour party have seen plenty of former voters sway to reformQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
But it is undoubtedly the conservatives who have suffered most from the rise of reform
Absolutely no question of that and backed up by Prof Jon Curtice
The question is rather academic now as its how the centre and left deal with the prevailing situation.....a right wing vote beyond the Tories....of probably 20 percent
I personally think that's the problem ....these people think that reform speaks for them and they now have a party to vote for
They won't be coming back to the main parties and even farage being caught dressed as Adolf Hitler won't bother them
So merge the centre and left and defeat the right wing at the ballot box by sheer numbers or the country will end up like America
The people I am aware of that vote reform are wannabee trump creeps anyway so it's par for the course
Reform are not going to be defeated by reasoned argument and that's where Starmer , The Liberals , Traditional Tories etc are absolutely wasting their time
You got so close to posting that without mentioning Trump or Adolf Hitler! Only two paragraphs and you would have been there! Other than that a fine example of reasoned argument 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
She's playing fast and loose with our dear NigeQuote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
I'm not sure most of their voters are capable of reading it.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo