Yes there is a petition

I’m not a new poster, in fact an old poster, but not been on here for a long while. I used to post under Anne Widdecombes Mirror. We all have views and opinions, especially now.

Let’s get straight to the point. We all know Tan has made serious mistakes, we also don’t need reminding that the experience of following our football club is at its lowest ebb. Bottom line? Tan needs to go. Tan has to go. Tan should not be allowed to run a football club. Action is needed. No action does nothing, and either confirms our apathy towards the club or our acceptance of Tans tyranny.

The easiest thing you can do is sign the petition to show that there is an opposition. FAB or Trust don’t show it, and are lapdogs. Signing the petition is so easy, takes a few clicks and is FREE FREE FREE. If you don’t sign, it’s your choice, but you have to decide, if you don’t sign, whether you fall under the apathetic or the accepting group.

Here’s the link. HTTPS://chng.it/fY8ttxHMbY

Once you have signed, you must confirm your signature via an email you will receive otherwise your signature will not count or show. DO NOT DONATE. THIS IS A REQUEST BY THE WEBSITE ONLY AND CAN BE SKIPPED.

Like a petition would make the slightest difference

As I say, do nothing and nothing gets done, so it’s your right to be an acceptor. Can you understand if everyone has this attitude nothing will change. If everyone had a different attitude then things will change.

But if the issue is that he's a tyrant who listens to nobody then it'll make no difference whatsoever. If he listens then he isn't the tyrant you say he is the guy can't win........ Which coincidentally he's proven

I remember my father being on the board and the club didn't have a pot to piss in, be careful what you wish for

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

Like a petition would make the slightest difference

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Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. If anyone wants to sign the petition then by all means go ahead, but don't expect it to make any difference

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

I remember my father being on the board and the club didn't have a pot to piss in, be careful what you wish for

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So we do nothing and nothing changes. I don’t sit in that camp.

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. If anyone wants to sign the petition then by all means go ahead, but don't expect it to make any difference

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A normal response, but I would refer to my previous response. Do nothing and nothing changes.

I was going to sign it until I read the blurb accompanying it and I won’t be doing so now. Going to the EFL because Tan is not a “fit and proper” person seems to be the wrong way to go about things. I’m not familiar with the exact requirements of the fit and proper person test, but I can’t really see how Vincent Tan would fail it - employees are getting paid on time, we are in no danger of going into Administration or Receivership, Tan charges no interest on his loans to the club and has written off a significant amount of the money the club owes him.

That said, I don’t agree with the notion of not signing the petition because it won’t change anything. It probably won’t,but if the right petition was signed by enough supporters, it would show Tan that significant numbers of fans were pissed off with the way he has neglected the club and with the manner it has been run for the last fifteen years or so - sadly, i don’t think this is the right petition, or, at least, there should be a convincing explanation as to how he is breaking the fit and proper person rules.

First well done for posting.

I agree 100% with Bob.

Bills are being paid. We are not on the brink and players in tears being sold like under recent ownership.

He's just really crap at running the club in a way that will make us successful and it looks like no change.

We badly need new ownership but there seems to be no serious interested parties.

Just don't think this is the right petition.

We could really do with one united fans group rather than all these small different groups who are having little affect. Have u thought about getting elected to the Trust?

I certainly don't wish for Tan. Do you?

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

I remember my father being on the board and the club didn't have a pot to piss in, be careful what you wish for

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. If anyone wants to sign the petition then by all means go ahead, but don't expect it to make any difference

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Well I'm prepared to spend literally a minute of my time. I don't see that as wasted time. What harm will it do to sign?

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

I remember my father being on the board and the club didn't have a pot to piss in, be careful what you wish for

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. If anyone wants to sign the petition then by all means go ahead, but don't expect it to make any difference

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I was going to sign it until I read the blurb accompanying it and I won’t be doing so now. Going to the EFL because Tan is not a “fit and proper” person seems to be the wrong way to go about things. I’m not familiar with the exact requirements of the fit and proper person test, but I can’t really see how Vincent Tan would fail it - employees are getting paid on time, we are in no danger of going into Administration or Receivership, Tan charges no interest on his loans to the club and has written off a significant amount of the money the club owes him.

That said, I don’t agree with the notion of not signing the petition because it won’t change anything. It probably won’t,but if the right petition was signed by enough supporters, it would show Tan that significant numbers of fans were pissed off with the way he has neglected the club and with the manner it has been run for the last fifteen years or so - sadly, i don’t think this is the right petition, or, at least, there should be a convincing explanation as to how he is breaking the fit and proper person rules.

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Appreciate the measured response. I'm not saying it is up to us to say either he is or he isn't. The point is asking for a review, but more Importantly letting Tan know and making him aware we are not happy.

In terms of football, owning a club is more than just keeping it in business. Be is an astute business man no doubt. His understanding of football operations is zero.

I saw this in twitter the other day. seems like a non starter to me

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

I remember my father being on the board and the club didn't have a pot to piss in, be careful what you wish for

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. If anyone wants to sign the petition then by all means go ahead, but don't expect it to make any difference

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Originally Posted by Hilts

First well done for posting.

I agree 100% with Bob.

Bills are being paid. We are not on the brink and players in tears being sold like under recent ownership.

He's just really crap at running the club in a way that will make us successful and it looks like no change.

We badly need new ownership but there seems to be no serious interested parties.

Just don't think this is the right petition.

We could really do with one united fans group rather than all these small different groups who are having little affect. Have u thought about getting elected to the Trust?

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The Trust and the FAB are under total.control of Tan. You've suggested alternatives rather than criticise, however Tan has totally divided the support against each other......

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

I remember my father being on the board and the club didn't have a pot to piss in, be careful what you wish for

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. If anyone wants to sign the petition then by all means go ahead, but don't expect it to make any difference

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I saw this in twitter the other day. seems like a non starter to me

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It is a non starter if supporters are either apathetic or accepting of the current situation. A few clicks it takes and it doesn't even interrupt your day. What's the harm. Either do something or accept whare we are, who we ha e and live with the consistent failure.

I signed, but I feel it is fair to represent the arguments for the people who don't want to sign, including my father, who I had a conversation with.

The club has a gross debt £137.7 million, of which 68 million is owed to Tan and 37 million owed to Dalman. You would need a buyer who can clear both the debt and would also purchase the squad, stadium and other assets, of which prices are debatable. Does such a buyer exist? Probably, but there's an air of uncertainty about it, and a lot of fans simply do not want to risk going the way of Bury and Macclesfield in order to find out. The longer Tan stays in power and the incompetence takes its toll, the more debt is accrued and the less attractive it comes to investors, this is why Birmingham were extremely fortunate to be purchased before being relegated to League One.

I think most everyone agrees that Tan is incompetent and is not fit to run the club, the issue is, a lot of people do not want to rip the plaster off and hope we can at least get back to Championship football before a sale can be agreed where finances are more steady and guaranteed. But I fear we won't under this club's culture, and we'll become a League One stalwart like Bolton. The competition will be fierce for the auto promotions next season between Reading's new ownership, Plymouth being a relatively stable operation, Luton's issues being more player attitudes that can lead to transfers out, solid teams like Stockport, Wycombe, Huddersfield, Bolton and whoever loses the playoff final today. I personally think now is the time to rip off the plaster and look for buyers, because I think they absolutely exist (maybe fans with experience in business pitches could reach out to potential investors, I'd be more than happy to help writing a good case on why Cardiff City FC is a good investment opportunity), but I understand the perspective of those who are trying to urge more caution and be careful what we wish for. I just think the disease is fatal without treatment, and we will slip deeper and deeper into despair to the point of falling below Newport if it gets bad enough.

I don't think the people behind this petition understand what a fit and proper person is in terms of football club ownership, it doesn't mean someone the fans don't like or someone who got a team relegated.

Also using the fact that no pre season friendlies have been announced is bizarre, a 2 second google search will show that they didn't get announced until June 21st last year when we had a manager in place, The season only finished a couple of weeks ago, I don't think it's the end of the world that we don't know who we're playing in friendlies yet. I'm more annoyed by the fact that the retained list hasn't been announced to be honest, that is irritating because all the other Championship clubs have announced theirs.

And what exactly are "transparent transfer discussions?" No club in the world makes it public who they're planning on buying, it's a sure fire way to bump the price up. What are we expecting here? A transfer committee made up of 10000 season ticket holders? Jesus can you imagine :hehe:

Tan is useless and I'd be very happy to have a better owner if there was a realistic one available but I'm sorry, a petition signed by 500 people asking the league to review his (undeniable) fit and proper status with reasons like that listed is going to do absolutely nothing

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

I remember my father being on the board and the club didn't have a pot to piss in, be careful what you wish for

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. If anyone wants to sign the petition then by all means go ahead, but don't expect it to make any difference

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Originally Posted by Coyote

I signed, but I feel it is fair to represent the arguments for the people who don't want to sign, including my father, who I had a conversation with.

The club has a gross debt £137.7 million, of which 68 million is owed to Tan and 37 million owed to Dalman. You would need a buyer who can clear both the debt and would also purchase the squad, stadium and other assets, of which prices are debatable. Does such a buyer exist? Probably, but there's an air of uncertainty about it, and a lot of fans simply do not want to risk going the way of Bury and Macclesfield in order to find out. The longer Tan stays in power and the incompetence takes its toll, the more debt is accrued and the less attractive it comes to investors, this is why Birmingham were extremely fortunate to be purchased before being relegated to League One.

I think most everyone agrees that Tan is incompetent and is not fit to run the club, the issue is, a lot of people do not want to rip the plaster off and hope we can at least get back to Championship football before a sale can be agreed where finances are more steady and guaranteed. But I fear we won't under this club's culture, and we'll become a League One stalwart like Bolton. The competition will be fierce for the auto promotions next season between Reading's new ownership, Plymouth being a relatively stable operation, Luton's issues being more player attitudes that can lead to transfers out, solid teams like Stockport, Wycombe, Huddersfield, Bolton and whoever loses the playoff final today. I personally think now is the time to rip off the plaster and look for buyers, because I think they absolutely exist (maybe fans with experience in business pitches could reach out to potential investors, I'd be more than happy to help writing a good case on why Cardiff City FC is a good investment opportunity), but I understand the perspective of those who are trying to urge more caution and be careful what we wish for. I just think the disease is fatal without treatment, and we will slip deeper and deeper into despair to the point of falling below Newport if it gets bad enough.

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An honest response backed up by thought. You've signed. Thank you. It wasn't difficult, may not make a difference admittedly but it's not hurt you or anyone. You can say you've done something having given it thought.

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

I remember my father being on the board and the club didn't have a pot to piss in, be careful what you wish for

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. If anyone wants to sign the petition then by all means go ahead, but don't expect it to make any difference

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Originally Posted by delmbox

I don't think the people behind this petition understand what a fit and proper person is in terms of football club ownership, it doesn't mean someone the fans don't like or someone who got a team relegated.

Also using the fact that no pre season friendlies have been announced is bizarre, a 2 second google search will show that they didn't get announced until June 21st last year when we had a manager in place, The season only finished a couple of weeks ago, I don't think it's the end of the world that we don't know who we're playing in friendlies yet. I'm more annoyed by the fact that the retained list hasn't been announced to be honest, that is irritating because all the other Championship clubs have announced theirs.

And what exactly are "transparent transfer discussions?" No club in the world makes it public who they're planning on buying, it's a sure fire way to bump the price up. What are we expecting here? A transfer committee made up of 10000 season ticket holders? Jesus can you imagine :hehe:

Tan is useless and I'd be very happy to have a better owner if there was a realistic one available but I'm sorry, a petition signed by 500 people asking the league to review his (undeniable) fit and proper status with reasons like that listed is going to do absolutely nothing

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Strange and disappointing response. Poking fun and having a laugh does nothing to bring supporters together. I'll put you under the apathy and the accepting groups.

I promise not to tell Vincent if you sign.

'FAB or Trust don’t show it, and are lapdogs.'

'The Trust and the FAB are under total.control of Tan.'


If you choose to believe that, fair enough.

But making that part of your argument for signing a petition (that is already confused and badly thought out) is not going to maximise the number of signatures.

I agree with your description of the state of the club and that fans should make their feelings of anger and frustration known in large numbers, but it isn't always the case that 'something' is better than 'nothing'. Sometimes that something makes the situation worse.

I would sign a petition I agreed with.

I stopped buying a season ticket years ago. I have stopped spending anything in the club shop. I am a member of the Trust. The last one is - in my opinion - the most important in getting a collective fans voice heard by the club.

I don’t see the point, I’m sure he would pass the fit and proper test every time with flying colours.

We may not like the way he runs the club and disagree with his management appointments but nothing to suggest it’s not fit and proper in terms of ownership. He backs the club financially.

Also if he did fail the test what happens to us financially? Administration while we find a new owner?

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

Like a petition would make the slightest difference

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Like signing a petition would make the slightest difference to your day.

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Originally Posted by Jonny L

The Trust and the FAB are under total.control of Tan. You've suggested alternatives rather than criticise, however Tan has totally divided the support against each other......

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Neither the Trust nor the FAB are under any kind of control of Vincent Tan. Both organisations (plus the Disabled Supporter Association) are comprised of long standing fans who were elected by the fans themselves and remain totally independent of the club and its owner and directors.

The current FAB comprises two members elected by the Supporters Club committee (who are themselves elected by its members) , two members elected by the Trust board (who are again elected by its members) and one elected by the DSA (once again elected by its members).
The other five FAB members were elected in an open ballot of the club`s season ticket holders. Any fan could have put himself/herself forward as a candidate for these roles ahead of the voting.

The club had no say in who could be elected to the roles, and has no say in or control over the FAB, the Trust or DSA says or does.

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Originally Posted by Ninian1962

Neither the Trust nor the FAB are under any kind of control of Vincent Tan. Both organisations (plus the Disabled Supporter Association) are comprised of long standing fans who were elected by the fans themselves and remain totally independent of the club and its owner and directors.

The current FAB comprises two members elected by the Supporters Club committee (who are themselves elected by its members) , two members elected by the Trust board (who are again elected by its members) and one elected by the DSA (once again elected by its members).
The other five FAB members were elected in an open ballot of the club`s season ticket holders. Any fan could have put himself/herself forward as a candidate for these roles ahead of the voting.

The club had no say in who could be elected to the roles, and has no say in or control over the FAB, the Trust or DSA says or does.

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I'm not disagreeing with what you say. However the argument always used in contrast to that is a jibe about free electricity at the stadium and stuff like that- and that being at risk if speaking out.

Fair enough if you don't want to get drawn into that level of debate but that's the most common thing I've heard to justify the claim in Tans pocket etc....

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

….be careful what you wish for

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Are you Steve Borley in disguise?

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Originally Posted by Father Dougal

I'm not disagreeing with what you say. However the argument always used in contrast to that is a jibe about free electricity at the stadium and stuff like that- and that being at risk if speaking out.

Fair enough if you don't want to get drawn into that level of debate but that's the most common thing I've heard to justify the claim in Tans pocket etc....

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free electricity bar the stadium? ffs

I applaud anyone who makes an effort to improve what happens at our club, whether that's starting a petition or being a Trust or FAB representative.

It is a low bar to clear to be deemed fit and proper to own a football club though.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Are you Steve Borley in disguise?

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My dad was part of the Bob Grogan board

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

My dad was part of the Bob Grogan board

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Borley has used the phrase ‘be careful what you wish for’ on more than one occasion. I wonder how many City fans wished for the return of League One football?

As for not having a pot to piss in, the club definitely has a pot these days. The problem is it keeps getting filled with piss that gets poured down the drain.

So Tan walks, mission accomplished.

Then what? Who plugs the tens of millions of pounds hold in our finances?

My last Point on this as I have said my piece. If everyone who said 'what's the point' actually took a minute to sign something that wouldn't harm them then Our numbers and our togetherness would be far far healthier.

There are thise who want change and do something about it. Something is better than nothing. Doing nothing means we keep Tan which will mean we end up with NOTHING.

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

So Tan dies. Then what? Who plugs the tens of millions of pounds hold in our finances?

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Good question.

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Originally Posted by Jonny L

The Trust and the FAB are under total.control of Tan.

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I think I've read that sentiment on another message board. If the FAB are under the control of Tan then the Supporters Club, Disabled Supporters Association and Independent Elected Members as well as the Trust are also under the control of Tan. Do you agree ?

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

So Tan walks, mission accomplished.

Then what? Who plugs the tens of millions of pounds hold in our finances?

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I think we as fans should be proactive in trying to scout out potential investors. This would normally be the job of a Fan Trust, but they're subservient to Tan and can't see any potential for growth outside of him.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the argument about how risky it might be, but I think if Reading can find investment in a worse shape than us, and if Birmingham can get investment in more debt, we should find buyers, especially as a capital city and a potential for large local audience capture. I'm trying to look at it more from the catharsis of riding Tan out of town, and what we should put in place instead, and that requires proactivity, and the potential for maybe embarrassing ourselves making sales pitches.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Good question.

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Plenty of parties who would be willing exist, it's about finding them.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Borley has used the phrase ‘be careful what you wish for’ on more than one occasion.

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OK is Borely wrong, is it garanteed that we would have a better owner than Tan?

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Originally Posted by Enoch Mort

I think I've read that sentiment on another message board.

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I would love to know if 'the other board' is in 'full control' of anyone? Also whenever I look on there it seems to be an echo chamber with everyone saying the same thing. Weird place

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

OK is Borely wrong, is it garanteed that we would have a better owner than Tan?

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or Tan doesn't sell but decides to stop covering our losses every year

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

I would love to know if 'the other board' is in 'full control' of anyone? Also whenever I look on there it seems to be an echo chamber with everyone saying the same thing. Weird place

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Yes indeed, he hasn't answered the question i put to him in my post either.

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Originally Posted by Jonny L

I’m not a new poster, in fact an old poster, but not been on here for a long while. I used to post under Anne Widdecombes Mirror. We all have views and opinions, especially now.

Let’s get straight to the point. We all know Tan has made serious mistakes, we also don’t need reminding that the experience of following our football club is at its lowest ebb. Bottom line? Tan needs to go. Tan has to go. Tan should not be allowed to run a football club. Action is needed. No action does nothing, and either confirms our apathy towards the club or our acceptance of Tans tyranny.

The easiest thing you can do is sign the petition to show that there is an opposition. FAB or Trust don’t show it, and are lapdogs. Signing the petition is so easy, takes a few clicks and is FREE FREE FREE. If you don’t sign, it’s your choice, but you have to decide, if you don’t sign, whether you fall under the apathetic or the accepting group.

Here’s the link. HTTPS://chng.it/fY8ttxHMbY

Once you have signed, you must confirm your signature via an email you will receive otherwise your signature will not count or show. DO NOT DONATE. THIS IS A REQUEST BY THE WEBSITE ONLY AND CAN BE SKIPPED.

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Firstly it must be said that anyone has the right to start a petition but this one has some obvious gaps in its creation if people are to know what they are being asked to sign and why.
This post gives a link to the petition document which asks the EFL to investigate if Vincent Tan is a "fit and proper" person" under its rules to be an owner of a football club. What it fails to give a link to is what those rules are so people can form an opinion on whether there has been any such breach. Having read the rules many times over the years because of actions explained below, I can see no such breach. Whatever Vincent Tan`s faults (and there are many which are frequently raised with the club`s directors by elected fans groups in meetings and in correspondence) to petition for something which already exists and is reviewed regularly by the football authorities doesn`t seem to be of benefit to our fans.

[B]Changes in progress
You make an accusation that the FAB and Trust have not shown any willingness to attempt to change things , but see below which clearly shows this to be inaccurate (as well as the meetings referred to above).

Members of the FAB, both as individuals and as members of the fans groups they represent, have been heavily involved in helping progress new football legislation through Parliament . The Football Governance Bill has already passed through the House Of Lords and has also progressed as far as Committee stage in the House of Commons The Committee will be meeting at the beginning of next month).After that there will be a third reading of the Bill (politicians of all parties have confirmed their support of the Bill as it currently stands and other than some minor amendments in drafting of the wording it is expected to pass into law by enactment, probably by the end of 2025.

The Regulator , which is an independent panel rather than an individual, will force clubs to have proper consultation with its fans through elected representatives as well as ensuring a stronger "fit and proper person" test (which VT s would also pass). A Chair and Chief Operating Officer for the Regulator are already in place.
If club`s don`t comply with the new Act, they will lose their right to an Operating Licence and won`t be able to operate as a football club in the top five tiers of professional football. So no option but for club owners and directors to comply.

Perhaps a link in your post to the Football Governance Bill would also be very helpful in giving fans a full and true picture of the position before deciding if the petition will be useful and achieve anything that is not already in an advanced stage of progression and in which fans representatives groups continue to be actively involved.