A genuinely momentous day if this is true?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyel9kgdvdo
Printable View
A genuinely momentous day if this is true?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyel9kgdvdo
Much too early to say whether this is a momentous day or just another left wing party of the type that have popped up every few years in opposition to right wing Labour. Scargill did it with the Socialist Labour Party. Galloway did it with Respect (you claimed to be a member James, didn't you?) and there have been others, that eventually fold.
The difference this time is that this new party would start with at least 6 MPs - maybe more.
The other difference is that the Labour Party, despite its' Parliamentary majority, is in meltdown, disillusioned, rebellious, hollowed out with half the members there were when Corbyn was leader, and with its internal democracy on life support.
Already a third of the people who voted Labour last year (34% of the votes, 20% of the electorate) have switched allegiance. Most (3/4 of those who have abandoned Labour) to the Lib Dems, Greens and Independents; and the other 1/4 to Reform.
Momentum is desperately trying to stop further defections away from Labour - but without much conviction.
Political/social attitudes in the UK are changing fast and polarising - and social media is accelerating that. This time a new party might gain real traction, drive a political re-alignment, and grow enough to pass a tipping point (as Reform have probably done) before the next election.
Corbyn is such an arse despite his convictionQuote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Crazy timing , will split the vote and hand the keys of power to farage
It was going to be difficult enough before this
What is needed is for starmer to be toppled and a more attractive labour party emerged
Farage will walk it now with perhaps 5 percent off Labour's vote percentage
Brainless
Corbyn would decimate Farage. He may be our only hope against right wing hellQuote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Jeremy Corbyn is a Man of principle.
Just as Tony Benn was.
Both men saw what the EU for what it is.
Unfortunately for Jeremy Corbyn, he was not only brought centre stage by “momentum” he also faced a public that was starting to cotton on to identity politics and had a shadow cabinet, slightly worse than the Tory’s at the time and probably worse than we have now.
It seems as though political and economic talent and wisdom is at an all point low.
Then you have the matter of Labour ditching the working class for a middle class and a growing British Asian/Black demographic.
You can argue all you want about this…but there is a reason that Reform are up in the polls.
If people didn’t call them “Gammon’s” it probably wouldn’t have happened.
It did though and people dismiss other peoples fears as racism or bigotry.
Same thing with Trump.
The overton window has moved right a lot and sadly it’s down to hardline progressive’s that actually makes us regressive.
I’d wager that a sizable portion willing to take to the streets with a flag of Palestine would also be massively against Brexit, up for BLM Riots and genuinely hate most Western Societies as they currently stand.
Sludge, you talk as if Corbyn should be thinking in terms of how he can help keep Labour, the party that he led and then he was kicked out of, in power. I was going to say Labour has drifted to the right under Starmer, but that would be wrong, it’s been a headlong rush, it’s not just been that though, they’ve been so bad at politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
There’s been a need for a new party on the left since Starmer became PM, well before that probably in fact, and I welcome it.Will I be voting for the new party? Too early to say yet, but I know for a fact that in certain aspects (eg Gaza, Trump, an alternative to the politics of the past forty five years) their views will more closely match mine than Starmer’s Labour does.
Am I right in thinking that you preferred Bill Haydon to George Smilley?Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Do you mean Corbyn would decimate Farage in the polls?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Not sure that would be the scenario as the sort of Labour voters who would now feel the need to give Reform a chance are unlikely to vote for the new Corbyn-Sultana party.
If there was an election tomorrow I would rather vote for a left alternative to starmer but this corbyn thing would be a disasterQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
There are lots of MPs with principles who I would prefer to give mt vote to than Corbyn
The only chance for Labour at the moment to pull back votes and stop reform is to get rid of starmer and his creeps
Then in the longer term for everyone to form a modern left of centre alternative to Reform and the Tories....Labour, liberals, greens , Independents, old school ex Tories
Splitting the vote any further is going to hand power to Reform and the Tories for generations
If Labour got its act together it can gain enough votes to keep them at bay but with its current leadership and a further loss of votes to corbyns break off its got no chance
Its suicide
I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully a pact with Plaid can be reached so neither side eat into each other's support. The plan for me was always to vote Plaid in the Senedd elections, because they're the only party that seems to have a modicum of competence and good will right now.
Hopefully this can draw the principled elements of Labour to defect, maybe even enough to force neoliberal Keir to make concessions.
Yes I was, but the SLP, Socialist Alliance, Respect etc never had a cohort of sitting MPs, so if several formally started a new party then it would be momentous and by definition bigger than any of those parties. Respects high point was when Galloway won in Bethnal Green but they never built upon that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
I think you're absolutely right with your last sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue
Attachment 6583
US politics but still relevant
Seems that Sultana completely jumped the gun on this announcement. Bit bizarre really as it didn't seem to just slip out after a tricky question or anything.
Yeah, a guess but I'd imagine there's been a fair bit of trademark dilly dallying from Corbyn and she has lost her composure and fallen at the first hurdle, proving that she is far from ready to take something like this on.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Its very poor timing given the context around the welfare bill and ramifications of the leadership potentially realising they actually have to listen to their own backbenches. I'd imagine a lot of MPs who were warming up on the idea of a breakaway might now think they have more of a purpose within the labour party than in some a.n.other protest vote which breakaways tend to end up being.
Most of those rebels dont seem interested which is goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
having 5 main parties right across the political spectrum can only be a good thing, and may result in more consensus politics longer term.
not with our current electoral system it isn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by HiVis
If a new party of the left is formed that would mean six major parties now that the Greens are building their numbers again.Quote:
Originally Posted by HiVis
The Tories don't publish membership figures (researchers have to rely on extrapolating from their member income figures in annual accounts) and the Lib Dems dipped before picking up again after the local election. Reform are claiming an impressive number of individual members (almost double the Tories) which looks higher than their local organisation (improving but still in its early stages) would imply.
The 'latest' membership figures are:
Labour - 309,000 - and still dropping (was over 530,000 in 2019)
Tories - 131,680 - with half of them in care homes!
Lib Dems - 90,000+ - but they go up and down like a yo-yo
Reform - 234,175 - maybe?
Greens - 65,000+ and another 7,646 for the Scottish Greens
Any new left wing party built around the Independents and Labour defectors (or Labour suspended/expelled), and mainly people who are not currently members of any other party, would probably also take some members away from the Greens and Lib Dems.
Jokers to the left, Jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with who?
Sorry!!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y7zqdwzqyo
Interesting range of seats that these four represent.
Two of them are in seats that I think most would say Labour are extremely unlikely to hold next election.
I wonder if that's something that increasingly may damage Starmer, as it did Sunak, as if the next seat seems unwinnable, MPs are probably more likely to take a moral stance on things that may not necessarily be the best moves for their careers
What's the latest gossip on the Corbyn/Sultana party?
Starmer trying to show what a strong man leader he is :facepalm:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tent-rebel-mps
Thought he was dreadful in PMQs today.
I try to watch it most weeks and iQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I thought he was dreadful today too, and normally I think he is okay, although I'm noticing more and more he is parroting our slogans. Badenoch isn't great at it, but I thought she won today and her quip at "I'm not talking down the country, I am talking down you" was quite good I thought.
Starmer will be very pleased that the summer recess has come. As I think will many others. We all need a bit of a break.
Which party is going to sort out the big black hole including the 7 billion hidden expenditure!
I think Badenoch comes over as prissy and generally ineffective, but I agree she got the better of Starmer today and that line you quote was the highlight of a largely forgettable exchange.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Reform have got a cunning plan for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
When they sweep into power (!) they will sack all the Equalities officers in Lincolnshire.
Its blindingly obvious that starmer and his cabinet needs liquidation
Only then can a more reasonable and less clueless labour party emerge
Having labour , liberals , greens and possibly corbyns mob all scrambling b for votes will just allow farage to stroll into power
Its all very well having choices but when reform are looking odds on for victory egos need to go out the window ......get a left of centre rainbow party set up you clueless bunch of idiots
Can't see that happening. Greens are mad and would push for things that would unsettle the market. Lib Dems a profoundly different party. Could see a coalition after an election but not before. Corbyns lot more likely to align with the Greens separately. Starmer wants little to do with them. SNP (I know you didn't mention them) are massive rivals and big differences on Scottish independence. Plaid are insignificant on a UK wide level.
The reality is Labour are facing the same problems the Tories are. The same problems most countries are.
The first rule of Sludge's Tories are scum club is that there is no Tories are scum club!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
If we dont get a larger middle ground rainbow alliance farage walks inQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
So either they cobblers something together or just carry on whilst he walks in through the back door
No need to speculate, you can read more about it here!Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Full details outlined in the next council meeting apparently, so you will all have to bookmark Kent Councils webcasts for that
https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co...e-move-at-kent
Thanks for the heads up. I won't be able to sleep waiting for Kent County Council's detailed DOGE plan! It's so exciting! :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
This piece puts some of it in context - and at the same time casually takes down Mumford and Sons - so two good reasons to read it!
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cies-reform-uk
You need to stop reading the guardian so much Jon!Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Cut out the middle man..go straight to the council webcast! 😀
I’m just marking time until the Great Kent County Council reveal!Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
It's going to be a long old month, especially without the football to keep us going 😩Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Debate on the frozen out MPs on radio this morning
Starmer out , yesterday please
Debate on the frozen out MPs on radio this morning
Starmer out , yesterday please
Dianne Abbott kicked out again now. It's like the hokey cokey.
I have to say, it's not hard to see the point she is trying to make, but it's very clumsily made and it seems highly unlikely it was an accident to repeat them. She knows what she is doing there.
Another Jackie Wheeler situation?Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
I doubt it. The Jackie Wheeler performance at Handforth Parish Council was funny - if unintentionally funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
I expect the Kent County Council DOGE cuts event will have a lot fewer laughs!