Credit to the Board?

I've seen a few people saying 'let's give the board some credit' for backing BBM and turning the club round.

I have to say I completely disagree. BBM must take almost all the credit for the great start we've had to life in League One

I wouldn't even say he's been backed in the transfer market. We've saved hundreds of thousands of pounds on wages and any of the new players or new contrancts will be more than covered by that off set. BBM is just working with the new slimmed down budget the board have set.

The marque signing of Osho too was almost certainly nothing to do with the board and will have been down to 1. freeing up a huge chunk in our budget by BBM reducing the deadwood 2. Previous good working relationship BBM had with Osho.

I am loving the start of the new era with BBM - but my memory is long enough to realise we're sucessing inspite of the board, not becuase of them.

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Originally Posted by PhyllisStant

I've seen a few people saying 'let's give the board some credit' for backing BBM and turning the club round.

I have to say I completely disagree. BBM must take almost all the credit for the great start we've had to life in League One

I wouldn't even say he's been backed in the transfer market. We've saved hundreds of thousands of pounds on wages and any of the new players or new contrancts will be more than covered by that off set. BBM is just working with the new slimmed down budget the board have set.

The marque signing of Osho too was almost certainly nothing to do with the board and will have been down to 1. freeing up a huge chunk in our budget by BBM reducing the deadwood 2. Previous good working relationship BBM had with Osho.

I am loving the start of the new era with BBM - but my memory is long enough to realise we're sucessing inspite of the board, not becuase of them.

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If they appoint a bad Manager and we struggle, it's down to them. Who appointed this so far excellent Manager?

Whose job is it to get the best Manager you can, to hopefully save you a fortune in the transfer market and get the best from the academy?

They've done a great job on this appointment, for once!

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Originally Posted by PhyllisStant

I've seen a few people saying 'let's give the board some credit' for backing BBM and turning the club round.

I have to say I completely disagree. BBM must take almost all the credit for the great start we've had to life in League One

I wouldn't even say he's been backed in the transfer market. We've saved hundreds of thousands of pounds on wages and any of the new players or new contrancts will be more than covered by that off set. BBM is just working with the new slimmed down budget the board have set.

The marque signing of Osho too was almost certainly nothing to do with the board and will have been down to 1. freeing up a huge chunk in our budget by BBM reducing the deadwood 2. Previous good working relationship BBM had with Osho.

I am loving the start of the new era with BBM - but my memory is long enough to realise we're sucessing inspite of the board, not becuase of them.

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The club (Vincent Tan) appear to have made a very good managerial appointment, and in a slightly different way.

The club have also invested in the Academy and are seeing the benefits of that on the pitch and in transfer fee savings.

The club also do some other things well (ticket prices, Foundation).

Alongside the things they do very badly (communication, engagement, governance, club oversight and strategy).

But the Board appears to be a shell, and mostly disfunctional. Some individuals do a job of keeping the club running, and ensuring decisions are eventually made - but the key individuals are part-time and/or absent most of the time.

It is a useless model and one that will lead to failure more often than success. Despite the promise of a root and branch review after relegation, nothing has changed, There isn't even a plan for conducting a review!

I don't think the appointment of BBM was a lucky accident. There was a drawn-out process and finally a decision. The 'safe' options were rejected and so far that looks a smart move.

So credit is due to whoever made that happen - whether Vincent Tan, or Gavin Chesterfield, or Mehmet Dalman, or consultants, or all of the above.

But the bigger and more long term problems remain and if some credit is due for a good decision on the manager, then massive discredit is due for the abject failure to deal with those.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

The club (Vincent Tan) appear to have made a very good managerial appointment, and in a slightly different way.

The club have also invested in the Academy and are seeing the benefits of that on the pitch and in transfer fee savings.

The club also do some other things well (ticket prices, Foundation).

Alongside the things they do very badly (communication, engagement, governance, club oversight and strategy).

But the Board appears to be a shell, and mostly disfunctional. Some individuals do a job of keeping the club running, and ensuring decisions are eventually made - but the key individuals are part-time and/or absent most of the time.

It is a useless model and one that will lead to failure more often than success. Despite the promise of a root and branch review after relegation, nothing has changed, There isn't even a plan for conducting a review!

I don't think the appointment of BBM was a lucky accident. There was a drawn-out process and finally a decision. The 'safe' options were rejected and so far that looks a smart move.

So credit is due to whoever made that happen - whether Vincent Tan, or Gavin Chesterfield, or Mehmet Dalman, or consultants, or all of the above.

But the bigger and more long term problems remain and if some credit is due for a good decision on the manager, then massive discredit is due for the abject failure to deal with those.

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Spot on.

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Originally Posted by PhyllisStant

I've seen a few people saying 'let's give the board some credit' for backing BBM and turning the club round.

I have to say I completely disagree. BBM must take almost all the credit for the great start we've had to life in League One

I wouldn't even say he's been backed in the transfer market. We've saved hundreds of thousands of pounds on wages and any of the new players or new contrancts will be more than covered by that off set. BBM is just working with the new slimmed down budget the board have set.

The marque signing of Osho too was almost certainly nothing to do with the board and will have been down to 1. freeing up a huge chunk in our budget by BBM reducing the deadwood 2. Previous good working relationship BBM had with Osho.

I am loving the start of the new era with BBM - but my memory is long enough to realise we're sucessing inspite of the board, not becuase of them.

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I genuinely would’ve appointed Ian Evatt and kept the likes of Ralls and Rinomota if it was down to me

Looks like that would’ve been a bad move

Of course the board have to take some credit

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Originally Posted by jon1959

But the bigger and more long term problems remain and if some credit is due for a good decision on the manager, then massive discredit is due for the abject failure to deal with those.

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Maybe they expect BBM to sort those out as well.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

The club (Vincent Tan) appear to have made a very good managerial appointment, and in a slightly different way.

The club have also invested in the Academy and are seeing the benefits of that on the pitch and in transfer fee savings.

The club also do some other things well (ticket prices, Foundation).

Alongside the things they do very badly (communication, engagement, governance, club oversight and strategy).

But the Board appears to be a shell, and mostly disfunctional. Some individuals do a job of keeping the club running, and ensuring decisions are eventually made - but the key individuals are part-time and/or absent most of the time.

It is a useless model and one that will lead to failure more often than success. Despite the promise of a root and branch review after relegation, nothing has changed, There isn't even a plan for conducting a review!

I don't think the appointment of BBM was a lucky accident. There was a drawn-out process and finally a decision. The 'safe' options were rejected and so far that looks a smart move.

So credit is due to whoever made that happen - whether Vincent Tan, or Gavin Chesterfield, or Mehmet Dalman, or consultants, or all of the above.

But the bigger and more long term problems remain and if some credit is due for a good decision on the manager, then massive discredit is due for the abject failure to deal with those.

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Yes agree. Give credit where due and the club do some things right, well even. Ultimately we are still in league 1 as a result of the things the club do poorly.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

The club (Vincent Tan) appear to have made a very good managerial appointment, and in a slightly different way.

The club have also invested in the Academy and are seeing the benefits of that on the pitch and in transfer fee savings.

The club also do some other things well (ticket prices, Foundation).

Alongside the things they do very badly (communication, engagement, governance, club oversight and strategy).

But the Board appears to be a shell, and mostly disfunctional. Some individuals do a job of keeping the club running, and ensuring decisions are eventually made - but the key individuals are part-time and/or absent most of the time.

It is a useless model and one that will lead to failure more often than success. Despite the promise of a root and branch review after relegation, nothing has changed, There isn't even a plan for conducting a review!

I don't think the appointment of BBM was a lucky accident. There was a drawn-out process and finally a decision. The 'safe' options were rejected and so far that looks a smart move.

So credit is due to whoever made that happen - whether Vincent Tan, or Gavin Chesterfield, or Mehmet Dalman, or consultants, or all of the above.

But the bigger and more long term problems remain and if some credit is due for a good decision on the manager, then massive discredit is due for the abject failure to deal with those.

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Thank. I thought it. You posted it. Agree 100%.

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Originally Posted by PhyllisStant

I've seen a few people saying 'let's give the board some credit' for backing BBM and turning the club round.

I have to say I completely disagree. BBM must take almost all the credit for the great start we've had to life in League One

I wouldn't even say he's been backed in the transfer market. We've saved hundreds of thousands of pounds on wages and any of the new players or new contrancts will be more than covered by that off set. BBM is just working with the new slimmed down budget the board have set.

The marque signing of Osho too was almost certainly nothing to do with the board and will have been down to 1. freeing up a huge chunk in our budget by BBM reducing the deadwood 2. Previous good working relationship BBM had with Osho.

I am loving the start of the new era with BBM - but my memory is long enough to realise we're sucessing inspite of the board, not becuase of them.

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For BB-M see Russell Slade? :hide:

Unpopular one but does Purse get any credit for the youngsters coming through?

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Originally Posted by theclaw

Unpopular one but does Purse get any credit for the youngsters coming through?

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Of course, he does, he has been the youth team coach, he'd be getting all the blame if they were all shit.

Agree

Maybe the board is experiencing a Damascene conversion. It's never got anything remotely right before so maybe now it finally accepts it must change tack. Though it would be nice if it communicated this new approach to the fans and publicly admit and disavow past failures. I'm a forgiving soul.

We are only a few games in....... remember when everyone was chucking contracts at Rizar after a few games. Lets calm down. Lets wait and see how things pan outl

I think it's fair to give the board some credit here

It does change wider views on the board, Tan, the rebrand or absolve them of blame for other things, but those criticisms are more valid if we acknowledge their role in things that are more positive too.

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Originally Posted by PhyllisStant

I've seen a few people saying 'let's give the board some credit' for backing BBM and turning the club round.

I have to say I completely disagree. BBM must take almost all the credit for the great start we've had to life in League One

I wouldn't even say he's been backed in the transfer market. We've saved hundreds of thousands of pounds on wages and any of the new players or new contrancts will be more than covered by that off set. BBM is just working with the new slimmed down budget the board have set.

The marque signing of Osho too was almost certainly nothing to do with the board and will have been down to 1. freeing up a huge chunk in our budget by BBM reducing the deadwood 2. Previous good working relationship BBM had with Osho.

I am loving the start of the new era with BBM - but my memory is long enough to realise we're sucessing inspite of the board, not becuase of them.

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It’s always about the manager, we haven’t had any good ones for years, you could say we’ve only had a few in 30 years or more

While I appreciate they had a VERY lengthy process in place to appoint BBM, personally I still feel that going on the balance of evidence over the last few years it's likely more luck than judgement.

They seem to have struck extremely well with this Manager after a run of ...7? Arguably more terrible appointments. I actually don't think the board has quite had the vitriol it deserved over the last few years.

I'd give the board some credit if, now that they can see things on the pitch and in the fanbase improving, they got some structure in place, firstly the constantly-mentioned-in-crisis DOF. Someone who embraces the style of play we are adopting so that it can be continued beyond BBM. Not ripped up for another knee-jerk managerial appointment if BBM is poached further down the line.

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

While I appreciate they had a VERY lengthy process in place to appoint BBM, personally I still feel that going on the balance of evidence over the last few years it's likely more luck than judgement.

They seem to have struck extremely well with this Manager after a run of ...7? Arguably more terrible appointments. I actually don't think the board has quite had the vitriol it deserved over the last few years.

I'd give the board some credit if, now that they can see things on the pitch and in the fanbase improving, they got some structure in place, firstly the constantly-mentioned-in-crisis DOF. Someone who embraces the style of play we are adopting so that it can be continued beyond BBM. Not ripped up for another knee-jerk managerial appointment if BBM is poached further down the line.

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No, apparently, Dalman was blown away and insisted on him while others fancied Buckingham and Ramsey. Getting Chesterfield in to act as a recruitment football man was a good decision, and they got this one right, credit where it's due.

They then gave BBM the DOF type role, and he was allowed to shape the last transfer window with the new quality over quantity objective, so far, it looks to have worked a treat.

The board deserve credit for us being in League 1.

Purse deserves a lot of credit.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

The board deserve credit for us being in League 1.

Purse deserves a lot of credit.

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That's true, terrible the last few years, especially sticking with Riza, but got it right this time. Maybe the fear of losing all his cash got VT to think seriously about his past mistakes and he's learned a very expensive lesson?

It depends who you blame for the negative things. If it’s the board then the positives are to their credit. If you don’t blame the board for the demise, you are free to credit someone else for the positives.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

If they appoint a bad Manager and we struggle, it's down to them. Who appointed this so far excellent Manager?

Whose job is it to get the best Manager you can, to hopefully save you a fortune in the transfer market and get the best from the academy?

They've done a great job on this appointment, for once!

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Despite the promise of a root and branch review after relegation, nothing has changed, There isn't even a plan for conducting a review!

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There was a recent vlog where Omer Riza was being interviewed and he mentioned the different areas of the club (on the football side) and how they are working independently of each other. He cited it as a problem and even had a conversation about it with Vincent Tan after he left the club.

Riza didn’t call anybody out personally, but it’s clear we had a recruitment department that operated separately from the first team manager/coaches.

You’re probably correct, the ‘root and branch’ review may not have materialised, but what has happened this transfer window is that all three incomings are Barry-Murphy’s and it was reported that the recruitment strategy at the club was ripped up by Barry-Murphy when he arrived.

That is a change in approach at Cardiff. What will be interesting is if we get to November/December and Barry-Murphy doesn’t approve of any of the potential targets Patrick Deboys has put in front of him for the January transfer window, then I think we’ll start seeing some personnel changes at the club as well.

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Originally Posted by Jamsarnie

There was a recent vlog where Omer Riza was being interviewed and he mentioned the different areas of the club (on the football side) and how they are working independently of each other. He cited it as a problem and even had a conversation about it with Vincent Tan after he left the club.

Riza didn’t call anybody out personally, but it’s clear we had a recruitment department that operated separately from the first team manager/coaches.

You’re probably correct, the ‘root and branch’ review may not have materialised, but what has happened this transfer window is that all three incomings are Barry-Murphy’s and it was reported that the recruitment strategy at the club was ripped up by Barry-Murphy when he arrived.

That is a change in approach at Cardiff. What will be interesting is if we get to November/December and Barry-Murphy doesn’t approve of any of the potential targets Patrick Deboys has put in front of him for the January transfer window, then I think we’ll start seeing some personnel changes at the club as well.

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I think the role will change for Deboys; he'll have clear instructions on who to scout, and he'll have full profiles and will combine with the analysis team. Ultimately, he will be reporting to BBM and doing what he's told, and you're probably right if he doesn't do it to BBM's satisfaction, he'll find someone who can.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

No, apparently, Dalman was blown away and insisted on him while others fancied Buckingham and Ramsey. Getting Chesterfield in to act as a recruitment football man was a good decision, and they got this one right, credit where it's due.

They then gave BBM the DOF type role, and he was allowed to shape the last transfer window with the new quality over quantity objective, so far, it looks to have worked a treat.

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You can't have a manager playing the director of football role.. it is doomed to failure. One is focused on short-term success. The other should be focused on long-term success. We still need a director of football who can continue the good work BBM is currently doing.

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Originally Posted by Bald Barry Bastad

You can't have a manager playing the director of football role.. it is doomed to failure. One is focused on short-term success. The other should be focused on long-term success. We still need a director of football who can continue the good work BBM is currently doing.

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Having the ‘manager in a director of football type role’ entirely misses the point of a director of football imo. As you’d expect

We know Tan ogives a final “yes/no” decision on appointments - but not based on any football knowledge of his own.

He is given guidance and recommendations by others, and whoever short-listed and recommended BBM deserves credit.

Convincing Tan, I believe, was solely down to BBM, and how he conducted himself in his meetings with Tan.

Tan made a sensible decision…for once…but I’m churlish enough to give him zero credit for that 😄

You are churlish.Do you not think that during 10+ years of doing something that a person would not have learnt some lessons?
Wouldn’t you have done so?

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Originally Posted by PhyllisStant

I've seen a few people saying 'let's give the board some credit' for backing BBM and turning the club round.

I have to say I completely disagree. BBM must take almost all the credit for the great start we've had to life in League One

I wouldn't even say he's been backed in the transfer market. We've saved hundreds of thousands of pounds on wages and any of the new players or new contrancts will be more than covered by that off set. BBM is just working with the new slimmed down budget the board have set.

The marque signing of Osho too was almost certainly nothing to do with the board and will have been down to 1. freeing up a huge chunk in our budget by BBM reducing the deadwood 2. Previous good working relationship BBM had with Osho.

I am loving the start of the new era with BBM - but my memory is long enough to realise we're sucessing inspite of the board, not becuase of them.

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Wilst I agree with most of what you said I hate (and you can check my posts to cofirm this) when posters say things as fact when in reality it is their opinion, albeit a shrewd guess. Do you know the information as a fact? If so please show us where you got it from, otherwise it is no more than your opinion.

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Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY TOO

You are churlish.Do you not think that during 10+ years of doing something that a person would not have learnt some lessons?
Wouldn’t you have done so?

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On last season’s evidence, no he hasn’t learned anything. Since the end of last season, he’s made a good managerial appointment (even if he appeared to favour Nathan Jones over BBM) and there’s been evidence that the Academy has been working well. These are reminders that Tan has done some good things, but, if Xaesiff City seems to be a club on the up at the moment, that’s far more down BBM than Tan and co.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

On last season’s evidence, no he hasn’t learned anything. Since the end of last season, he’s made a good managerial appointment (even if he appeared to favour Nathan Jones over BBM) and there’s been evidence that the Academy has been working well. These are reminders that Tan has done some good things, but, if Xaesiff City seems to be a club on the up at the moment, that’s far more down BBM than Tan and co.

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Not sure I can blame predictive rent for Xaediff, probably more down to me typing messages within ten minutes of waking up!

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Not sure I can blame predictive rent for Xaediff, probably more down to me typing messages within ten minutes of waking up!

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Even Xaesiff :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Bald Barry Bastad

You can't have a manager playing the director of football role.. it is doomed to failure. One is focused on short-term success. The other should be focused on long-term success. We still need a director of football who can continue the good work BBM is currently doing.

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That’s a fair point. For now, we’ll just have to hope BBM stays with us for a long time and that the growth continues. But you’re right, when he leaves, we’d be back to square one, as we’ve quickly become heavily reliant on him.

We would need a DOF to provide success and longevity. If the former then the latter becomes more unlikely.

I suspect most of our recent managers would not have wanted a DOF and if they did it would need to be somebody who has established a good reputation.

Finding and retaining a good DOF is probably more difficult than finding a good manager and just somebody else to blame.

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Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY TOO

We would need a DOF to provide success and longevity. If the former then the latter becomes more unlikely.

I suspect most of our recent managers would not have wanted a DOF and if they did it would need to be somebody who has established a good reputation.

Finding and retaining a good DOF is probably more difficult than finding a good manager and just somebody else to blame.

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So we keep on going down the Tan knows best route?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Wilst I agree with most of what you said I hate (and you can check my posts to cofirm this) when posters say things as fact when in reality it is their opinion, albeit a shrewd guess. Do you know the information as a fact? If so please show us where you got it from, otherwise it is no more than your opinion.

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:hehe:
so Ramsey, Ralls, Rinomhota, Hovarth, Collins, Darland, El Ghazi, Goutas, Meite, O'Dowda, Raheem Conte, Simic, Tsonda, Kieran Evans, Etete ....combined wages are less than......

Trott, Kellyman and Osho?????

Do I know the exact amount? No. Would I bet both my bolox it's serval milions less this season. Yes.

Stay off the drugs kids. :hehe:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So we keep on going down the Tan knows best route?

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That would be a recipe for extinction. We've been fortunate to have recruited what appears to be a talented young manager by accident rather than design: let's not fool ourselves into somehow thinking this dysfunctional board will see the error of it's former ways and suddenly become effective.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

The club (Vincent Tan) appear to have made a very good managerial appointment, and in a slightly different way.

The club have also invested in the Academy and are seeing the benefits of that on the pitch and in transfer fee savings.

The club also do some other things well (ticket prices, Foundation).

Alongside the things they do very badly (communication, engagement, governance, club oversight and strategy).

But the Board appears to be a shell, and mostly disfunctional. Some individuals do a job of keeping the club running, and ensuring decisions are eventually made - but the key individuals are part-time and/or absent most of the time.

It is a useless model and one that will lead to failure more often than success. Despite the promise of a root and branch review after relegation, nothing has changed, There isn't even a plan for conducting a review!

I don't think the appointment of BBM was a lucky accident. There was a drawn-out process and finally a decision. The 'safe' options were rejected and so far that looks a smart move.

So credit is due to whoever made that happen - whether Vincent Tan, or Gavin Chesterfield, or Mehmet Dalman, or consultants, or all of the above.

But the bigger and more long term problems remain and if some credit is due for a good decision on the manager, then massive discredit is due for the abject failure to deal with those.

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Very good post Jon.
Spedger