Sala case

Taken from the trust email:

EMILIANO SALA LEGAL CASE: THE LATEST

Trust Chair Keith Morgan attended an online meeting today with the Cardiff City FC lawyer dealing with the case. The meeting was also attended by various members of the media, both local and national.

This is Keith's report on that briefing.

The court hearing will take place in the Nantes Commercial Court at 5pm local time on Monday, December 8th with an estimated hearing time of 2 to 3 hours.

The hearing is open to the public so likely to be attended and reported on by the media.

A French judge will give an initial summary of the matter based on all the documents submitted by both sides which he has fully reviewed. Then there will be the chance for lawyers on both to present their verbal case as to why he should rule in their favour.

He has to consider two assertions. Firstly, liability. Is FC Nantes liable for the financial loss to Cardiff City FC caused by the actions of their agent Willie McKay and, secondly, what quantum of loss are they liable for the Cardiff City FC claim(It is for €120.2m)?

The judge is unlikely to finally give his formal verdict until early Spring 2026.


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At least the end is in sight.

the whole thing from start to a finish in sight! is too tragic

If we get back the asking price, we'll be doing well. Can't see anyone awarding anything for what might have happened.

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Originally Posted by tforturton

If we get back the asking price, we'll be doing well. Can't see anyone awarding anything for what might have happened.

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I guess CCFC are asking for losses of future earnings if they had stayed up. That is a hard one to judge as we would have to prove on the balance of probabilities Sala would have made enough difference for us to avoid relegation.

Obviously we have to win the case first before wondering about compensation.

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

I guess CCFC are asking for losses of future earnings if they had stayed up. That is a hard one to judge as we would have to prove on the balance of probabilities Sala would have made enough difference for us to avoid relegation.

Obviously we have to win the case first before wondering about compensation.

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that's a lot of whataboutism tho. pure speculation from CcFc

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

I guess CCFC are asking for losses of future earnings if they had stayed up. That is a hard one to judge as we would have to prove on the balance of probabilities Sala would have made enough difference for us to avoid relegation.

Obviously we have to win the case first before wondering about compensation.

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The Trust have said in the past that the Cardiff City claim is for the value of the transfer fee (and associated costs) and for the loss of income resulting from Premier League relegation.

As I understand it the numbers were produced by 'expert' forensic accountants but how they are able to estimate the probable impact of Emiliano Sala on the league table (in the first and maybe successive seasons) is a mystery to me.

It must be based on 'balance of probability', and translating his record in other leagues to his likely impact for Cardiff in the Premier League, and looking at churning the data to provide a 'probable' ('possible') league table in which Sala made a full impact.

It is educated guesswork - but those seem to be the rules.

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Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK

that's a lot of whataboutism tho. pure speculation from CcFc

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But a claim that can be made hence a judge considering it

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Originally Posted by Trigger

The court hearing will take place in the Nantes Commercial Court at 5pm local time on Monday, December 8th with an estimated hearing time of 2 to 3 hours.

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Is the judge a FC Nantes supporter?

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

But a claim that can be made hence a judge considering it

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how often do those claims go in your/our favour. just sayin'

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Is the judge a FC Nantes supporter?

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He's not a City supporter.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

The Trust have said in the past that the Cardiff City claim is for the value of the transfer fee (and associated costs) and for the loss of income resulting from Premier League relegation.

As I understand it the numbers were produced by 'expert' forensic accountants but how they are able to estimate the probable impact of Emiliano Sala on the league table (in the first and maybe successive seasons) is a mystery to me.

It must be based on 'balance of probability', and translating his record in other leagues to his likely impact for Cardiff in the Premier League, and looking at churning the data to provide a 'probable' ('possible') league table in which Sala made a full impact.

It is educated guesswork - but those seem to be the rules.

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It probably is within the rules to submit an 'expert' estimate. As it is a civil case it all comes down to the Judge and how he sees it.

Let's hope he is a Stade Rennais F.C. fan (apparently they don't like Nantes)
:hehe:

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Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK

that's a lot of whataboutism tho. pure speculation from CcFc

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That generally is the case in Civil cases. Even divorces rely on what about's like the value of property and pensions etc.

It will come down to how much weight the Judge attaches to forensic accountants evidence

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Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK

that's a lot of whataboutism tho. pure speculation from CcFc

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lot of speculation on here about the workings of the French legal system

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Is the judge a FC Nantes supporter?

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The FC Nantes fans that I know just want Kita in jail…. asap.

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Originally Posted by G rangetown Blue

The FC Nantes fans that I know just want Kita in jail…. asap.

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Amazing how well connected people are these days.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

lot of speculation on here about the workings of the French legal system

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The French legal system is similar to the one in the UK. In civil cases the court works on the balance of probabilities and each side is allowed expert witnesses before a judge.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

He's not a City supporter.

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I remember a bloke that looked like him sharing an African roll up near the old Grange End

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

The French legal system is similar to the one in the UK. In civil cases the court works on the balance of probabilities and each side is allowed expert witnesses before a judge.

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There are significant differences between the Civil Law system in France, which was originally based on Napoleonic Code, and English Civil Law. The former is more inquisitorial with the judges being involved in investigating and the latter being more adversarial.

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

Amazing how well connected people are these days.

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

There are significant differences between the Civil Law system in France, which was originally based on Napoleonic Code, and English Civil Law. The former is more inquisitorial with the judges being involved in investigating and the latter being more adversarial.

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But they both work on the balance of probabilities which is the most important thing.

I have taken part in Civil court proceedings on several occasions and I can assure you the Judge in very case was inquisitorial and investigative on the evidence before him. True there is amount of adversarial conflict but generally that happens under cross examination. I don't know if that happens in France but it would be odd if it didn't.

As said the two systems while not being exact copies of each other are very similar.

Club statement just released:

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...-court-hearing

Tomorrow, Nantes’ commercial court will finally hear the substance of Cardiff City Football Club’s case against FC Nantes. We want FC Nantes to be held accountable for the faults committed by Willie McKay, FC Nantes’ true agent.

This tragedy, which began nearly seven years ago, cost Emiliano Sala his life. It is a tragedy that could and should have been avoided, had the people involved in the transfer on FC Nantes’ side not relied on the services of a banned agent, who went on to organise illegal flights to get the deal done.

On the eve of the hearing, however, there is hope. The hearing marks another step towards uncovering the truth and establishing more accountability in football.

This case isn’t about harming football: it’s about protecting its integrity. This is about ensuring higher standards across our sport, especially surrounding transfers.

Because Emiliano Sala deserved better. Because football deserves better.

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Originally Posted by NinianKnight

But they both work on the balance of probabilities which is the most important thing.

I have taken part in Civil court proceedings on several occasions and I can assure you the Judge in very case was inquisitorial and investigative on the evidence before him. True there is amount of adversarial conflict but generally that happens under cross examination. I don't know if that happens in France but it would be odd if it didn't.

As said the two systems while not being exact copies of each other are very similar.

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Judges in the English system don't investigate, as such.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Club statement just released:

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...-court-hearing

Tomorrow, Nantes’ commercial court will finally hear the substance of Cardiff City Football Club’s case against FC Nantes. We want FC Nantes to be held accountable for the faults committed by Willie McKay, FC Nantes’ true agent.

This tragedy, which began nearly seven years ago, cost Emiliano Sala his life. It is a tragedy that could and should have been avoided, had the people involved in the transfer on FC Nantes’ side not relied on the services of a banned agent, who went on to organise illegal flights to get the deal done.

On the eve of the hearing, however, there is hope. The hearing marks another step towards uncovering the truth and establishing more accountability in football.

This case isn’t about harming football: it’s about protecting its integrity. This is about ensuring higher standards across our sport, especially surrounding transfers.

Because Emiliano Sala deserved better. Because football deserves better.

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Embarrassing statement.

Pretending to care about justice for sala when just want the money back

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Originally Posted by G rangetown Blue

The FC Nantes fans that I know just want Kita in jail…. asap.

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Are you serious?

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Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub

Embarrassing statement.

Pretending to care about justice for sala when just want the money back

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Genuine question - why can't it be both? I can't conceive of any scenario where an organisation wouldn't care about both, especially given the specific circumstances of Sala's death.

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Originally Posted by TaffsWellThatEndsWell

Genuine question - why can't it be both? I can't conceive of any scenario where an organisation wouldn't care about both, especially given the specific circumstances of Sala's death.

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We were tucked up in bed with the same agent a year previously. All we care about is getting money back, our board couldn’t care less about Sala

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Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub

We were tucked up in bed with the same agent a year previously. All we care about is getting money back, our board couldn’t care less about Sala

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And the very substantial trust fund the club and owner set up for the Sala family soon after the tragedy occurred? Was that a sign of " couldn`t care less"? The same fund that FC Nantes refused to contribute to?

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Originally Posted by Ninian1962

And the very substantial trust fund the club and owner set up for the Sala family soon after the tragedy occurred? Was that a sign of " couldn`t care less"? The same fund that FC Nantes refused to contribute to?

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I donÂ’t believe the amount we put in was ever disclosed so hard to comment on whether it was substantial

The club states it is after justice for Sala and for accountability for the whole of football then on the other hand is demanding 120m (having paid 15m)

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Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub

I donÂ’t believe the amount we put in was ever disclosed so hard to comment on whether it was substantial

The club states it is after justice for Sala and for accountability for the whole of football then on the other hand is demanding 120m (having paid 15m)

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"Substantial" is the word the reports used at the time

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Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub

I donÂ’t believe the amount we put in was ever disclosed so hard to comment on whether it was substantial

The club states it is after justice for Sala and for accountability for the whole of football then on the other hand is demanding 120m (having paid 15m)

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I think the club would be happy to get the fee paid for Sala back. A principle is at stake here. You recall that FIFA, the EFL and the Court of Abitration for Sport all determined, before the full facts of the case were known , that the club were in the wrong. Not only did Nantes not contribute to the Sala family fund but neither did the EFL and the club were sanctioned by the various governing bodies into transfer embargoes and fee restraints and also had to pay the legal fees of those organisations threatening us with action.The Kita family that own Nantes are already under investigation by the French police for fraud, money laundering and the use of illegal agents. If the case goes the clubs way, and there is no guarantee of that, I am of a mind that Tan will take FIFA , the EFL and the Court of Arbitration for Sport to the cleaners, then hopefully we will see some justice for the Sala family!!

I hate this whole entire thing and I just want it to be over. I don't care if we win or lose, just get it over with, and hopefully it'll never have to be revisited.

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

I think the club would be happy to get the fee paid for Sala back. A principle is at stake here. You recall that FIFA, the EFL and the Court of Abitration for Sport all determined, before the full facts of the case were known , that the club were in the wrong. Not only did Nantes not contribute to the Sala family fund but neither did the EFL and the club were sanctioned by the various governing bodies into transfer embargoes and fee restraints and also had to pay the legal fees of those organisations threatening us with action.The Kita family that own Nantes are already under investigation by the French police for fraud, money laundering and the use of illegal agents. If the case goes the clubs way, and there is no guarantee of that, I am of a mind that Tan will take FIFA , the EFL and the Court of Arbitration for Sport to the cleaners, then hopefully we will see some justice for the Sala family!!

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Living in cloud cuckoo land. He was our player and the club were happy to announce him as a Cardiff City player. Nantes using a dodgy agent (same as the one we used previously many times under Warnock) doesn’t change that. If this was truly about justice for Sala we wouldn’t be trying to get millions out of Nantes, a club that I also think have acted despicably.

The only thing that should matter here is whether criminal proceedings should be taken against certain people who set up the flight. As far as I can see this is all a civil matter regarding money so for the club to frame it as something different is embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub

Living in cloud cuckoo land. He was our player and the club were happy to announce him as a Cardiff City player. Nantes using a dodgy agent (same as the one we used previously many times under Warnock) doesn’t change that. If this was truly about justice for Sala we wouldn’t be trying to get millions out of Nantes, a club that I also think have acted despicably.

The only thing that should matter here is whether criminal proceedings should be taken against certain people who set up the flight. As far as I can see this is all a civil matter regarding money so for the club to frame it as something different is embarrassing.

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Your multiple responses imply that you are determined for the club to be at fault here. Even if the club had a relationship with the McKay family prior to Sala's death, why does that matter given Willie's son is a licensed intermediary? (Not entirely relevant, but I saw that as Warnock's influence rather than anyone currently at the club). As far as I can see, the club made an effort to expel the McKay family from the club once details emerged of their involvement with the incident.

Source for the above:
https://www.theguardian.com/football...o-sala-cardiff


As a more general point, I can't see that there is anything morally wrong with an organisation pursuing damages for loss of earnings. Indeed, it sounds to me that the club are the one who have dedicated money to Sala's foundation, so anything that comes from the lawsuit is more likely to do good with the club than any of the other parties involved.

Irrespective of that, the club's statement doesn't say anything about this case being truly about solely seeking justice for Sala. Even so, it's plain to see that it could have a knock on effect which builds towards that. The statement did say that Sala deserved better and that all other footballers do too, which is hard to disagree with...

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Originally Posted by TaffsWellThatEndsWell

The statement did say that Sala deserved better and that all other footballers do too, which is hard to disagree with...

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I agree with this part of your post, just not convinced that is the aim.

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Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub

Living in cloud cuckoo land. He was our player and the club were happy to announce him as a Cardiff City player. Nantes using a dodgy agent (same as the one we used previously many times under Warnock) doesn’t change that. If this was truly about justice for Sala we wouldn’t be trying to get millions out of Nantes, a club that I also think have acted despicably.

The only thing that should matter here is whether criminal proceedings should be taken against certain people who set up the flight. As far as I can see this is all a civil matter regarding money so for the club to frame it as something different is embarrassing.

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If your money was lost, you'd want it back, too. The courts will decide who was at fault, not fans.

It does surprise me how many holier-than-thou fans we have that are siding against the club.

Biggest mistake the club made was claiming the lad wasn't officially signed.

I don't mind them going after Nantes if they believe they were in any way involved.

The club isn't a billion pound business, it's run at a loss and employs local people directly as well indirectly through supply contracts etc, it can't afford to just write of tens of millions.

I'd have included the champ relegation in the case, for me the lack of focus and investment has come from the club having this case hanging over it.

I feel for Sala's family having to keep hearing about it but hopefully this will be the end of it all.

I'm aware the club had a minimal insurance payout and didn't someone buy some of the rights to any potential payout? As much as I want the club to get what they can I don't want this going any further. Tan probably needs to find someone else to take the club on and hopefully when this case is done that will be one of the green lights for him to do so.

The club's statement is a bit cringe, we aren't doing it for football and that's ok.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

It does surprise me how many holier-than-thou fans we have that are siding against the club.

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On the flip side it surprises me how many people blindly side with the club due to supporting them. I have supported the club for 40+ years but don’t support this and never will. I was here before the current owner and il be here long after him. This will always be looked back on as another poor saga of his ownership and in years to come people will realise they were wrong to support it.

This thread would be a completely different read if it was another club involved.

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Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub

On the flip side it surprises me how many people blindly side with the club due to supporting them. I have supported the club for 40+ years but don’t support this and never will. I was here before the current owner and il be here long after him. This will always be looked back on as another poor saga of his ownership and in years to come people will realise they were wrong to support it.

This thread would be a completely different read if it was another club involved.

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so anyone who doesn't agree with you is blindly siding with the club?

The way I see it is the club feel that we didn't do anything wrong, and Nantes did everything wrong, yet we are the ones who have been made to pay so far.
I totally understand the club's approach in those circumstances. Nothing to do with blindly supporting the club. And I've seen a lot of fans from a range of clubs responding favourably to the club's statement on social media.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Club statement just released:

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...-court-hearing

Tomorrow, Nantes’ commercial court will finally hear the substance of Cardiff City Football Club’s case against FC Nantes. We want FC Nantes to be held accountable for the faults committed by Willie McKay, FC Nantes’ true agent.

This tragedy, which began nearly seven years ago, cost Emiliano Sala his life. It is a tragedy that could and should have been avoided, had the people involved in the transfer on FC Nantes’ side not relied on the services of a banned agent, who went on to organise illegal flights to get the deal done.

On the eve of the hearing, however, there is hope. The hearing marks another step towards uncovering the truth and establishing more accountability in football.

This case isn’t about harming football: it’s about protecting its integrity. This is about ensuring higher standards across our sport, especially surrounding transfers.

Because Emiliano Sala deserved better. Because football deserves better.

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Very ill advised.

Neither club will come out of this with any integrity; City especially.

I feel desperately sorry for Sala's family.