The “special relationship” between England and Germany in football.

Switched on the car radio this morning to hear the phrase “it had to be Germany didn’t it” spoken by different presenters within five minutes. The implication being that this would be the latest in a series of epic struggles which have had the rest of the world on the edge of their seats through the sheer tension of it all down the decades.

In this version of events, millions of Germans wiill be spluttering “Gott im himmel, we’ve got the schweinhund Englanders again!” into their cornflakes, but maybe some of those on here who have lived in Germany can confirm or deny my suspicion that this is a one sided special relationship with far more comment and media talk being generated on this side of the English Channel than the other side of it?

It seems that Gareth Southgate is a big fan of Winston Churchill, so, not that they need any encouraging, you can expect plenty of World War 2 references from the red tops over the next week or so. I think England could well beat what doesn’t look the strongest of German sides this time, but am hoping that it turns out to be business as usual in this fixture with the result, almost always, going the same way when there is something serious to be played for.

Mike Bushell said on BBC breakfast that it stirred memories of the 'ghost' goal in 2010 and the 5-1 victory in Munich.
My memories are of England losing that game 4-1, Keegan resigning after the last game at old Wembley and some plastic chairs being thrown about in Charleroi.

Klinsman forecasts the game will go to pelanties

I'd be amazed if England weren't favourites for this one. While they have been boring, they have been competent. Germany has a few ageing greats like Kroos and Mueller, but nothing else. They were decent against a very crap Portugal, and seem very prone to errors in a way that German sides of the past were not. And England have home advantage too. If you look at the draw, I think anyhing less than a semi final would be an under-achievement for England. Although if they do get there I expect the Netherlands will give them a pasting. All of the talent is in the other half of the draw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick

I'd be amazed if England weren't favourites for this one. While they have been boring, they have been competent. Germany has a few ageing greats like Kroos and Mueller, but nothing else. They were decent against a very crap Portugal, and seem very prone to errors in a way that German sides of the past were not. And England have home advantage too. If you look at the draw, I think anyhing less than a semi final would be an under-achievement for England. Although if they do get there I expect the Netherlands will give them a pasting. All of the talent is in the other half of the draw.

---

Sweden's 94th minute winner yesterday shifted Spain to the other side of the draw and kept Sweden as potential opponents for England or Germany.

............and who has been allowed to forget 1966? Any needy Russian assistant referees about these days.

I hope England get leathered

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Switched on the car radio this morning to hear the phrase “it had to be Germany didn’t it” spoken by different presenters within five minutes. The implication being that this would be the latest in a series of epic struggles which have had the rest of the world on the edge of their seats through the sheer tension of it all down the decades.

In this version of events, millions of Germans wiill be spluttering “Gott im himmel, we’ve got the schweinhund Englanders again!” into their cornflakes, but maybe some of those on here who have lived in Germany can confirm or deny my suspicion that this is a one sided special relationship with far more comment and media talk being generated on this side of the English Channel than the other side of it?

It seems that Gareth Southgate is a big fan of Winston Churchill, so, not that they need any encouraging, you can expect plenty of World War 2 references from the red tops over the next week or so. I think England could well beat what doesn’t look the strongest of German sides this time, but am hoping that it turns out to be business as usual in this fixture with the result, almost always, going the same way when there is something serious to be played for.

---

I think it's true that the fixture doesn't carry quite the same weight in Germany as it does in England. They recognise it as an historically significant fixture as England and Wembley are closely associated with the history of the game but the Germans have,historically, often considered Italy and The Netherlands to be their main rivals. No doubt Portugal and France must be coming up on the rails.
I watch such games on German TV as they tend not to drone on past fixtures in quite the same way and I consider find their football commentaries less fatuous, jingoistic and patronising.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">8 - England will face Germany at a major tournament (World Cup/EUROs) for an eighth time - more than any other opponent for the Three Lions. England last eliminated the Germans in the knockout rounds of a major tournament in the 1966 World Cup final. Foes. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENG?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENG</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GER?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GER</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EURO2020?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#EURO20 20</a> <a href="https://t.co/3zPTDtp9dU">pic.twitter.com/3zPTDtp9dU</a></p>&mdash; OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) <a href="https://twitter.com/OptaJoe/status/1407812559965655041?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 23, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Switched on the car radio this morning to hear the phrase “it had to be Germany didn’t it” spoken by different presenters within five minutes. The implication being that this would be the latest in a series of epic struggles which have had the rest of the world on the edge of their seats through the sheer tension of it all down the decades.

---

That's the implication you arrived at. Nothing more.

As highlighted by LeningradCowboy, England have faced Germany in major tournaments more often than any other opponents, so it's entirely natural that the fixture should have massive significance for the English - especially as it's almost always the Germans who have triumphed in such games.

When speaking about 1996 in the build-up to this game I think far more should be said about August 1996: Arsene Wenger arrived in the UK shortly after that tournament and he transformed English football in a way that has had a lasting impact on the club scene, English youth scene and now potentially senior men's side as well.

Pep arrived February 2016 and has had a similar impact - I believe Spain won international tournaments while he was at Barcelona and then Germany when he was at Bayern.

I suspect tabloids will go "Revenge for Southgate" but would really like at least some to add "Legacy for Wenger" as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

That's the implication you arrived at. Nothing more.

As highlighted by LeningradCowboy, England have faced Germany in major tournaments more often than any other opponents, so it's entirely natural that the fixture should have massive significance for the English - especially as it's almost always the Germans who have triumphed in such games.

---

Oh you're really not going to try and say that the England v Germany fixture is treated the way it is merely because they have played each other quite often down the years are you? There's so much extra crap that goes with it on the English side at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Oh you're really not going to try and say that the England v Germany fixture is treated the way it is merely because they have played each other quite often down the years are you?

---

Of course not. That's merely an implication you've arrived at (again).

In your opening post, you suggested the radio presenters you listened to this morning were implying "this would be the latest in a series of epic struggles which will have had the rest of the world on the edge of their seats...."

I think that's rubbish. Simple as that really.

England and Germany have played each other 32 times over the years. 19 of those games were friendlies, including 3 friendlies played during the inter-war years. They have played 4 friendlies over the last 8 years. The 1966 cup final was their first 'competitive' game which extended England's winning run to 7 consecutive games. Since 1966, England have won 6 of the 24 games between the two countries with Germany winning 15, though honours have been more evenly shared this millennium with 5 German wins, 4 English wins and a draw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Of course not. That's merely an implication you've arrived at (again).

In your opening post, you suggested the radio presenters you listened to this morning were implying "this would be the latest in a series of epic struggles which will have had the rest of the world on the edge of their seats...."

I think that's rubbish. Simple as that really.

---

Perhaps, but I'd prefer to call it artistic licence to help make a point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seabird

............and who has been allowed to forget 1966? Any needy Russian assistant referees about these days.

---

Russian??? Our home ground is named after him:thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seabird

............and who has been allowed to forget 1966? Any needy Russian assistant referees about these days.

---

He wasn't Russian he was from the USSR.Tofig Barimov

As someone above has said, I thought Germany / Netherlands was their “derby” although more keenly felt on the Dutch side.

An English expert on German football was on the radio earlier and apparently the Germans liken the rivalry to an equivalent of a West Ham v Spurs rivalry, with England being the equivalent of West Ham. He said Germans respect England mainly for how big League football is and the history of it. He said Germans consider Italy and Holland as bigger rivals internationally.

Gary Linakers description of football: _ "It's when 22 blokes kick a ball round a field for a while..... and Germany win"

If England lose , I expect the English FA to sack Southgate, or for him to resign. He was the wrong choice in the first place, but a convenient appointment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mario Miethig

An English expert on German football was on the radio earlier and apparently the Germans liken the rivalry to an equivalent of a West Ham v Spurs rivalry, with England being the equivalent of West Ham. He said Germans respect England mainly for how big League football is and the history of it. He said Germans consider Italy and Holland as bigger rivals internationally.

---

I can't see that the London clubs analogy is meaningful in any way whatsoever. By the way, I am in the bowels of deepest Devon at the moment (in order to spend the weekend walking the SW Coast Path) and have just partaken in a couple of pints of draught SA in the village pub!

Basically West Ham consider Spurs their biggest rival, but Spurs don’t see it the same way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mario Miethig

Basically West Ham consider Spurs their biggest rival, but Spurs don’t see it the same way.

---

Chelsea are Spurs main rival to true Spurs fans

Plastic Arsenal fans outside of London think the North London Derby is the one but its spurs chelsea

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Chelsea are Spurs main rival to true Spurs fans

Plastic Arsenal fans outside of London think the North London Derby is the one but its spurs chelsea

---

My experience of living in London is that there’s some form of needle, to different degrees, between Spurs/Chelsea/West Ham. For some reason Arsenal, despite being the most successful side from London (I think, still) are a bit of an afterthought strangely, almost like an interloper.