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Where do we go from here?
We haven't got the players to dramatically change our style and Tan isn't willing to invest big (rightly so in the middle of a pandemic if I'm letting my head rule my heart). We are stuck with what we have got sadly; do we really think a better manager could do much better with what we have left at the club? Tactics are poor yes, but we lack any real quality or creativity and haven't filled the massive gap that Tomlin has left in the squad. I've never seen a Cardiff team that looks so uncomfortable on the ball, the basics just aren't there.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
As said before it starts above Mick McCarthy.
The club has been mis managed for years by Tans cronies that have absolutely no football knowledge at all.
It's all well and good saying we have no creativity or pace but the club hasn't just stumbled upon this it's been allowed to happen over several seasons.
Anyone who thought Harris and then mick would be the answer in the long run ie Dalmen Choo and Tan showed that lack of knowledge.
Fans see a win at Forest and can't see the bigger picture.
You need to have a long term plan change the club from top to bottom and as a fan accept short term losses for the bigger picture.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Changes needed at the top. Grateful to Tan but if he thinks Dalman and Choo are the people to guide us then he is wrong.
If he wants any return on his investment and to stop the club hemorrhaging money then he needs the right people in place.
People might point to the two promotions we got. I think about 80% of this board could have taken us up with the budget Malky had and they just struck lucky with Warnock as he is very good at manipulating those around him to get what he wants and at most clubs he has short term success. A stopped clock is right twice a day.
As for the footballing style I think rip off the plaster now rather than this gradual change in philosophy (is it even happening?).
We are throwing kids into the mix as a cost cutting measure and labelling it 'bringing through youth' like it is some well thought out plan. Problem being these kids try to play football then hit a first team and manager that actively encourages getting rid of the ball as quickly as possible and has under the last three manager including Mick.
Saying we have no money and we can't play that way with what we have just compounds the problem for me and excuses what they are doing. To change things they need to at least start going in that direction. All the money needs to be spent on improving our playing style. Signing midfielders, loaning them out and sticking with your toothless and ponderous midfield will not see change any time soon.
For anything to happen though the board need to have even the slightest idea what they are doing or plan to do. We need change at board level and nothing they have done since being here convinces me otherwise.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
I woke up with a hangover, watching that rubbish served to us last night - and I hadn't even been drinking.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
insider
As said before it starts above Mick McCarthy.
The club has been mis managed for years by Tans cronies that have absolutely no football knowledge at all.
It's all well and good saying we have no creativity or pace but the club hasn't just stumbled upon this it's been allowed to happen over several seasons.
Anyone who thought Harris and then mick would be the answer in the long run ie Dalmen Choo and Tan showed that lack of knowledge.
Fans see a win at Forest and can't see the bigger picture.
You need to have a long term plan change the club from top to bottom and as a fan accept short term losses for the bigger picture.
:thumbup:
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Re: Where do we go from here?
These threads should start by posting link to side Warnock left us (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E...ty_F.C._season) and posters saying what they would have done differently since.
Most will say they'd spend money or magically get the players playing a different style....would you actually have done differently to what the board have done since Warnock left?
Next step is asking where we'll be at the end of the season and whether we think we'll need to change direction at that point. That's the next time we have a clean slate.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
These threads should start by posting link to side Warnock left us (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E...ty_F.C._season) and posters saying what they would have done differently since.
Most will say they'd spend money or magically get the players playing a different style....would you actually have done differently to what the board have done since Warnock left?
Next step is asking where we'll be at the end of the season and whether we think we'll need to change direction at that point. That's the next time we have a clean slate.
In short, what I would have done as a board if they were serious about going in a new direction would be not to have employed Neil Harris followed by Mick McCarthy.
I'm not even sure anybody at the club knows what they want other than to save money. If they are or ever were serious about changing the way we play and being a more footballing, entertaining team then their choice of manager since that statement (Harris and McCarthy) is worrying.
The fans are slowly getting fed up with it and I can honestly see it hitting attendances soon. What then, save more money? Play all of the Under 23s?
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Mick keeps us in the division for the next 2 years brings through a core of young players and a new coach when his contract expires.
You cant just write off the 2 promotions as a cheque book achievement and lucky.
Malky took a depleted squad in a mess left by 442 Jones who had splashed the cash including pathetic money wasted on the likes of Fowler JFH Sinclair and got us up with Helgusson as a free as our striker.
Warnock took us from a possible relegation scrap to the PL.
Its going to be a difficult few years. Stay in the division and bring through young players looks the plan.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
That was the worst performance I’ve seen in a long time last night. Cannot remember a game where we barely had a shot never mind tested the keeper in a while. You could even question the effort of a few of the players.
It will be a tough season results wise no doubt with bringing through a few youngsters but it’s the manner of the performances for me. I’m not sure what Colwill and Harris will have learned yesterday from chasing 15 balls into the channel and seeing how many throw ins they can win. That genuinely seemed the tactic. Can’t get on board with McCarthy at all, last time I remember a reaction that bad in the away end was Swansea away under Warnock.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Mick keeps us in the division for the next 2 years brings through a core of young players and a new coach when his contract expires.
You cant just write off the 2 promotions as a cheque book achievement and lucky.
Malky took a depleted squad in a mess left by 442 Jones who had splashed the cash including pathetic money wasted on the likes of Fowler JFH Sinclair and got us up with Helgusson as a free as our striker.
Warnock took us from a possible relegation scrap to the PL.
Its going to be a difficult few years. Stay in the division and bring through young players looks the plan.
Tend to agree with that
We haven't flourished like we could have, but we haven't withered like so many others.
Yes we could have been Brighton or Leicester, but we could have also been Derby, Wednesday etc.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Huge change of ownership and structure which brings its own risks, ask Swansea, Sunderland Portsmouth .
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Huge change of ownership and structure which brings its own risks, ask Swansea, Sunderland Portsmouth .
It doesn't even take that. Someone who understands the game at board level would be a start. That's hardly revolutionary.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
This almost guarantee that Mick will keep us in the division while throwing kids in at all angles is far from certain in my opinion.
If teams could throw kids in and it was just a case of them getting exposure and improving and they will reach the level required then every team would do it. Why spend money if it was that easy?
I've seen a few signs one or two of our kids may not be up to it. Give the kids chance yes, when they are good enough and when the situation allows and their confidence doesn't get shot to bits. I don't think some of the kids are at the level needed and it certainly isn't an environment to nurture them and gradually bring them into the team. Apart from against Blackpool we've been bad for large spells of the other games. It is worrying.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Mick keeps us in the division for the next 2 years brings through a core of young players and a new coach when his contract expires.
You cant just write off the 2 promotions as a cheque book achievement and lucky.
Malky took a depleted squad in a mess left by 442 Jones who had splashed the cash including pathetic money wasted on the likes of Fowler JFH Sinclair and got us up with Helgusson as a free as our striker.
Warnock took us from a possible relegation scrap to the PL.
Its going to be a difficult few years. Stay in the division and bring through young players looks the plan.
Reluctantly agree with this. Won't be pretty at all, we're just going to have to survive for a few years and hopefully turn a corner like Stoke/Brum appear to have done.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Mick keeps us in the division for the next 2 years brings through a core of young players and a new coach when his contract expires.
You cant just write off the 2 promotions as a cheque book achievement and lucky.
Malky took a depleted squad in a mess left by 442 Jones who had splashed the cash including pathetic money wasted on the likes of Fowler JFH Sinclair and got us up with Helgusson as a free as our striker.
Warnock took us from a possible relegation scrap to the PL.
Its going to be a difficult few years. Stay in the division and bring through young players looks the plan.
Yeah all that money Jones wasted...
Season CCFC transfer spend CCFC transfer income Manager
05/06 1.58m 4.46m Jones
06/07 1.72m 4.01m Jones
07/08 0 10.31m Jones
08/09 1.11m 8.89m Jones
09/10 6.82m 5.72m Jones
10/11 0.11m 0.4m Jones
11/12 2.56m 1.73m Malky
12/13 11.77m 1.38m Malky
13/14 41.23m 3.37m Malky
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
insider
As said before it starts above Mick McCarthy.
The club has been mis managed for years by Tans cronies that have absolutely no football knowledge at all.
It's all well and good saying we have no creativity or pace but the club hasn't just stumbled upon this it's been allowed to happen over several seasons.
Anyone who thought Harris and then mick would be the answer in the long run ie Dalmen Choo and Tan showed that lack of knowledge.
Fans see a win at Forest and can't see the bigger picture.
You need to have a long term plan change the club from top to bottom and as a fan accept short term losses for the bigger picture.
Hear hear
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cardiff Ultra
Yeah all that money Jones wasted...
Season CCFC transfer spend CCFC transfer income Manager
05/06 1.58m 4.46m Jones
06/07 1.72m 4.01m Jones
07/08 0 10.31m Jones
08/09 1.11m 8.89m Jones
09/10 6.82m 5.72m Jones
10/11 0.11m 0.4m Jones
11/12 2.56m 1.73m Malky
12/13 11.77m 1.38m Malky
13/14 41.23m 3.37m Malky
Its not unusual so lets bring back Jones
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Re: Where do we go from here?
The youth will be ruined here, frantically hooking balls into the channel and scrapping for seconds. Cardiff is no place to learn your craft.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue lewj
In short, what I would have done as a board if they were serious about going in a new direction would be not to have employed Neil Harris followed by Mick McCarthy.
I'm not even sure anybody at the club knows what they want other than to save money. If they are or ever were serious about changing the way we play and being a more footballing, entertaining team then their choice of manager since that statement (Harris and McCarthy) is worrying.
The fans are slowly getting fed up with it and I can honestly see it hitting attendances soon. What then, save more money? Play all of the Under 23s?
What manager are you hiring to change style of play who can't be promised money to spend on squad? What manager is interested in coming to work with players Warnock left?
Simple facts are that Warnock left a squad which wasn't ready to compete for promotion (at least in a non-covid year) and work Harris and Mick have done so far suggests our squad will be far closer to that once they've gone*.
*depending on what is done at end of this season in terms of renewals and replacements. If we play hoofball next year then concerns about what we're teaching the kids are well founded.
Fans might not be inclined to stick around but that's not the best measure of how well things are going - they usually show up in number right at the end of a process when things are obviously better.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UNDERHILL1927
We haven't got the players to dramatically change our style and Tan isn't willing to invest big (rightly so in the middle of a pandemic if I'm letting my head rule my heart). We are stuck with what we have got sadly; do we really think a better manager could do much better with what we have left at the club? Tactics are poor yes, but we lack any real quality or creativity and haven't filled the massive gap that Tomlin has left in the squad. I've never seen a Cardiff team that looks so uncomfortable on the ball, the basics just aren't there.
We can't go anywhere. We're stuck for another 20 months. At least.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
We can't go anywhere. We're stuck for another 20 months. At least.
I still can't quite believe they gave Mick a 2 year deal
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
I still can't quite believe they gave Mick a 2 year deal
It'll probably get extended before Christmas, knowing those absolute pellets.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue lewj
This almost guarantee that Mick will keep us in the division while throwing kids in at all angles is far from certain in my opinion.
If teams could throw kids in and it was just a case of them getting exposure and improving and they will reach the level required then every team would do it. Why spend money if it was that easy?
I've seen a few signs one or two of our kids may not be up to it. Give the kids chance yes, when they are good enough and when the situation allows and their confidence doesn't get shot to bits. I don't think some of the kids are at the level needed and it certainly isn't an environment to nurture them and gradually bring them into the team. Apart from against Blackpool we've been bad for large spells of the other games. It is worrying.
Agree with part of this. If fans truly believe we have too much to be relegated then they are under an illusion.
Check the tables again after 15 games and see where we are. Also ask our friends down west if they think they have too much quality to go down.
Yes we seem to be playing many more youngsters, but are they being coached the Mick way ?
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
I still can't quite believe they gave Mick a 2 year deal
As soon as he won a couple of games I knew that was it. Such is our board. And people think Tan is a smart bloke.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
What's so dramatic about not instructing Sean Morrison not to hoof the ball 70 yards up the pitch and play it 10 yards up the pitch to an open team mate?
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
These threads should start by posting link to isde Warnock left us (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E...ty_F.C._season) and posters saying what they would have done differently since.
Most will say they'd spend money or magically get the players playing a different style....would you actually have done differently to what the board have done since Warnock left?
Next step is asking where we'll be at the end of the season and whether we think we'll need to change direction at that point. That's the next time we have a clean slate.
Oh. Sorry boss.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
As soon as he won a couple of games I knew that was it. Such is our board. And people think Tan is a smart bloke.
A man who is smart does not employ Neil Harris followed by Mick McCarthy in a bid to entertain fans.
He is also one of the men in the transfer committee and signs off the players that we sign.
All roads lead to Tan.
The product served up on the pitch is a direct result of the players, the way they play, the way the manager wants them to play and the tactics outlined by the manager. All of which overseen by Choo and Dalman who are overseen and picked by Tan.
We may be stuck with him but if he wants any return on his investment then I am sorry but he is not going the right way about it.
Cutting our budget to next to nothing while employing managers with a woefully bad style is not the way to go sadly. I wait with baited breath for the 'but he funds this club out of his own pocket' lot.
He might not have to pay so much to keep us afloat if him and his cronies had a scooby what they were doing.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
I tell you where we go from here
In an Ideal world Cardiff City would be a big club with people queuing round the block to get into the ground and others lining up to buy us
And a long list of managers dying to get a job
But we don't have any of the above so we have to stick with what we have and hope that the 9th place we are in becomes 6th
What other alternative do people think we have ?
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Re: Where do we go from here?
What I would ask here is why he, Choo and Dalman are on the transfer committee if they believe they have been caught out by Mackay with the Cornelius deal among others? There have been many since this and for what it is worth I think there was a player in Cornelius, we just didn't see it.
If you don't know what you are assessing and managers can get bad signings past the committee then what is the point of a committee? Surely three man saying that the manager has made a bad signing is an admission in itself that they are naive and do not know what to look for in a good signing.
Or is it a case of good signing and they were hands on involved and take credit, bad signing throw the manager under the bus?
The owner and board seem to be very much playing at running a football club. Directionless guess work.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I tell you where we go from here
In an Ideal world Cardiff City would be a big club with people queuing round the block to get into the ground and others lining up to buy us
And a long list of managers dying to get a job
But we don't have any of the above so we have to stick with what we have and hope that the 9th place we are in becomes 6th
What other alternative do people think we have ?
Are you saying our only options are Mick McCarthy with Dalman and Choo pulling the strings and there is no other option outside of this?
Sorry but I can't agree in the slightest.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
What manager are you hiring to change style of play who can't be promised money to spend on squad? What manager is interested in coming to work with players Warnock left?
Simple facts are that Warnock left a squad which wasn't ready to compete for promotion (at least in a non-covid year) and work Harris and Mick have done so far suggests our squad will be far closer to that once they've gone*.
*depending on what is done at end of this season in terms of renewals and replacements. If we play hoofball next year then concerns about what we're teaching the kids are well founded.
Fans might not be inclined to stick around but that's not the best measure of how well things are going - they usually show up in number right at the end of a process when things are obviously better.
You're deluded if you think mick is going to change his style from what we've already seen this season. If he was we would have seen signs by now.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
I would add that Tan and the people he surrounds himself with have picked the following succession of managers after Dave Jones -
Malky Mackay
Ole
Slade
Trollope
Warnock
Harris
McCarthy
Now even if you're being kind that is quite a random mix of managers. More bad than good for me. At least 4 failed without question for me, one is still here and even the ones that had success more than undone that further down the line and brought us back to where we were or played a part in doing.
I highlight these managerial picks as there seems no rhyme of reason to them. The only link I can make with any of them is the last 3 playing crap football.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Tan has picked the managers.
If he has been conned into buying the wrong player for inflated fees then he picked the man who did it to him. He will have also signed off the money to complete the signings before they were.
Let's argue that he was not knowledgeable enough to work out that the player was a dud or overpriced. Then he has chosen to take on those decisions and not employ somebody with the knowledge to oversee this.
We have had issues until recently with the academy not producing players. Sorry but an academy that Tan overseen for over a decade means that he has not corrected it. Nobody else.
Tan picks the manager, oversees the academy, releases funds/or not to sign players, or if he doesn't do these things is directly responsible for employing the people that do.
Tan and his cronies can point the finger all they like but they have the power to change every element of this club to their liking. The success of this football club or otherwise is totally down to them. Good, bad or ugly.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bald Barry Bastad
You're deluded if you think mick is going to change his style from what we've already seen this season. If he was we would have seen signs by now.
If we split your statement up:
I) we'd have seen signs of change by now - I disagree.
II) Mick's not going to change - I'm inclined to agree but we can't say definitely until end of this season with renewals/new signings etc.
I'm not saying we shouldn't push for better but that we can't do that without some resources to work with (money, youth players coming through) and we're in the process of building up our resources.
Fans on here speaking about mistakes from between DJ leaving and Harris coming in doesn't describe our club's current situation - though does have a role in explaining why we have so few resources to build on.
Just asking for a bit more patience really so that if it goes wrong next summer posters on here haven't exhausted their moaning during a time when things are going reasonably well given our circumstances.
Enjoy the re-building process! There's actually some things within it going well.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
If we split your statement up:
I) we'd have seen signs of change by now - I disagree.
II) Mick's not going to change - I'm inclined to agree but we can't say definitely until end of this season with renewals/new signings etc.
I'm not saying we shouldn't push for better but that we can't do that without some resources to work with (money, youth players coming through) and we're in the process of building up our resources.
Fans on here speaking about mistakes from between DJ leaving and Harris coming in doesn't describe our club's current situation - though does have a role in explaining why we have so few resources to build on.
Just asking for a bit more patience really so that if it goes wrong next summer posters on here haven't exhausted their moaning during a time when things are going reasonably well given our circumstances.
Enjoy the re-building process! There's actually some things within it going well.
I admire your stance but time for patience ended last season. We needed to see changes by now. We can go all year with Mick but the style won't change much and the youngsters won't benefit. It is who he is. IMO a wasted season if we stick with him.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
surge
If we split your statement up:
I) we'd have seen signs of change by now - I disagree.
II) Mick's not going to change - I'm inclined to agree but we can't say definitely until end of this season with renewals/new signings etc.
I'm not saying we shouldn't push for better but that we can't do that without some resources to work with (money, youth players coming through) and we're in the process of building up our resources.
Fans on here speaking about mistakes from between DJ leaving and Harris coming in doesn't describe our club's current situation - though does have a role in explaining why we have so few resources to build on.
Just asking for a bit more patience really so that if it goes wrong next summer posters on here haven't exhausted their moaning during a time when things are going reasonably well given our circumstances.
Enjoy the re-building process! There's actually some things within it going well.
One man's rebuild process is another man's using kids because we have allowed our squad to become paper thin.
What parts of the rebuild process are going well for you?
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I tell you where we go from here
In an Ideal world Cardiff City would be a big club with people queuing round the block to get into the ground and others lining up to buy us
And a long list of managers dying to get a job
But we don't have any of the above so we have to stick with what we have and hope that the 9th place we are in becomes 6th
What other alternative do people think we have ?
Sounds like you’re saying that we should pin our hopes on getting a promotion.
Personally, I think a promotion this season would be a disaster with the squad we have.
I don’t have a problem with another season in the Championship, as long as the club is steadily building towards a good tilt at promotion and a squad that doesn’t need a complete rebuild if we actually get there. What we have is a team that would be annihilated in the Premier League, with slow older players and young, inexperienced ones.
The emphasis needs to be on good performances, entertaining the fans and genuinely building something and that is what the club appears to be failing to deliver.
I actually feel that Dalman and Choo take us for fools, as their replies to the supporters questions were full of fluff.
And before the lynch mob accuse me of being a Jack, I believe that true supporters want the best for their club and should be trying to hold the management to account for their failings.
McFootball is, however, the status quo for now.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue lewj
One man's rebuild process is another man's using kids because we have allowed our squad to become paper thin.
What parts of the rebuild process are going well for you?
We've removed a huge chunk of the wage bill, that was spent on players who just weren't justifying that expenditure. While our income has dropped by half we just couldn't afford to be wasting so much of it.
We've reduced the average age of the squad significantly, and we are trying to bring youngsters though. Some may not ultimately make it at this level, but they have a far better chance if we actually try.
Yes we aren't going to be in the hunt for promotion this season, and possibly not even next, but to continue as we were would have been madness. If we can stay around midtable in this division while the squad gets such an extreme overhaul then I'd consider that a big success.
That should then be a platform to push for more - if we have got rid of the premier league wages and old players, if we have developed 3 or 4 players to be good at this level then we can look to concentrate our remaining funds on the other players and have another go.
I'd say we are probably bang on schedule. Narrowly losing a game away at Coventry doesn't change that.
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Re: Where do we go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
We've removed a huge chunk of the wage bill, that was spent on players who just weren't justifying that expenditure. While our income has dropped by half we just couldn't afford to be wasting so much of it.
We've reduced the average age of the squad significantly, and we are trying to bring youngsters though. Some may not ultimately make it at this level, but they have a far better chance if we actually try.
Yes we aren't going to be in the hunt for promotion this season, and possibly not even next, but to continue as we were would have been madness. If we can stay around midtable in this division while the squad gets such an extreme overhaul then I'd consider that a big success.
That should then be a platform to push for more - if we have got rid of the premier league wages and old players, if we have developed 3 or 4 players to be good at this level then we can look to concentrate our remaining funds on the other players and have another go.
I'd say we are probably bang on schedule. Narrowly losing a game away at Coventry doesn't change that.
So the rebuild process in short is letting players leave and replacing them with kids because we have to?
We are talking as though it will be a successful overhaul as well. It is an overhaul headed up by Mick McCarthy and the transfer committee that picked him. I shudder to think what will happen.