'Gatherings' - I've lost track...

Today's announcements that people can gather in groups of six (England) or eight (Scotland) from tomorrow (Scotland) and Monday (England) led me to wonder exactly what the rules are in Wales right now because, to be honest, I lost track a while back after each country's government started doing their own thing.

According to the Welsh government's guidance on their website, their intention is to prohibit all public gatherings of more than two people. The exercise guidelines on the same web pages suggest people in Wales should only exercise alone or with members of their own household, but in terms of 'gatherings' the guidance talks about stopping more than two people, except when those people are members of the same household or are attending funerals, carrying out essential work, giving emergency assistance, etc.

Does this therefore mean that, throughout the lockdown, I could have met up with a friend or relative from another household in a public space provided we had kept two metres apart? If that's not the case, then why does the guidance talk about prohibiting gatherings of more than two people?

I want to point out that I'm genuinely not looking to score any political points here - I'm pretty sure the current guidance in Wales is the same as was being given to people in England until fairly recently, and from a personal perspective I believe that both the Westminster government and the Welsh government have been utterly hopeless in their handling of this crisis. It's just that, to me, regulations that prohibit gatherings of more than two people would suggest that 'gatherings' of just two people are acceptable, when I've believed all along that they aren't.

https://gov.wales/staying-home-and-away-others-guidance

The WG, and possible UK Government have a habit of making minor tweaks to the regulations. You are quite right, you can meet up with 1 pal in a public place. How long that has been in force for, I am not sure, but almost certainly not before the last 3 weekly change.
Personally I think UK government have been appalling and given everything, Wales and Scotland have been better over this this pandemic. UK deaths have risen last 2 days. We are far from beating this virus.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Today's announcements that people can gather in groups of six (England) or eight (Scotland) from tomorrow (Scotland) and Monday (England) led me to wonder exactly what the rules are in Wales right now because, to be honest, I lost track a while back after each country's government started doing their own thing.

According to the Welsh government's guidance on their website, their intention is to prohibit all public gatherings of more than two people. The exercise guidelines on the same web pages suggest people in Wales should only exercise alone or with members of their own household, but in terms of 'gatherings' the guidance talks about stopping more than two people, except when those people are members of the same household or are attending funerals, carrying out essential work, giving emergency assistance, etc.

Does this therefore mean that, throughout the lockdown, I could have met up with a friend or relative from another household in a public space provided we had kept two metres apart? If that's not the case, then why does the guidance talk about prohibiting gatherings of more than two people?

I want to point out that I'm genuinely not looking to score any political points here - I'm pretty sure the current guidance in Wales is the same as was being given to people in England until fairly recently, and from a personal perspective I believe that both the Westminster government and the Welsh government have been utterly hopeless in their handling of this crisis. It's just that, to me, regulations that prohibit gatherings of more than two people would suggest that 'gatherings' of just two people are acceptable, when I've believed all along that they aren't.

https://gov.wales/staying-home-and-away-others-guidance

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Just take a walk into Whitchurch Village tomorrow, it must be a sovereign state as the over 50s are doing what the **** they want.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Today's announcements that people can gather in groups of six (England) or eight (Scotland) from tomorrow (Scotland) and Monday (England) led me to wonder exactly what the rules are in Wales right now because, to be honest, I lost track a while back after each country's government started doing their own thing.

According to the Welsh government's guidance on their website, their intention is to prohibit all public gatherings of more than two people. The exercise guidelines on the same web pages suggest people in Wales should only exercise alone or with members of their own household, but in terms of 'gatherings' the guidance talks about stopping more than two people, except when those people are members of the same household or are attending funerals, carrying out essential work, giving emergency assistance, etc.

Does this therefore mean that, throughout the lockdown, I could have met up with a friend or relative from another household in a public space provided we had kept two metres apart? If that's not the case, then why does the guidance talk about prohibiting gatherings of more than two people?

I want to point out that I'm genuinely not looking to score any political points here - I'm pretty sure the current guidance in Wales is the same as was being given to people in England until fairly recently, and from a personal perspective I believe that both the Westminster government and the Welsh government have been utterly hopeless in their handling of this crisis. It's just that, to me, regulations that prohibit gatherings of more than two people would suggest that 'gatherings' of just two people are acceptable, when I've believed all along that they aren't.

https://gov.wales/staying-home-and-away-others-guidance

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I am devastated personally as me and

five metal mates were going to turn up at your place for a surprise party

We will never get that opportunity now

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Originally Posted by Former Labour leader

The WG, and possible UK Government have a habit of making minor tweaks to the regulations. You are quite right, you can meet up with 1 pal in a public place. How long that has been in force for, I am not sure, but almost certainly not before the last 3 weekly change.

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With respect (genuinely), I think you're wrong. The thing about stopping gatherings of more than two people didn't make sense to me at the time the lockdown was announced as that line seemed to be somewhat contrary to the rest of the message.

In this report from today, it says: "It has been illegal for groups of more than two people to meet since lockdown began in March."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52832552

On the UK government website, the guidance from 23rd March (now withdrawn) reads as follows:

"When we reduce our day-to-day contact with other people, we will reduce the spread of the infection. That is why the government has introduced (23 March 2020) three new measures.

1) Requiring people to stay at home, except for very limited purposes.

2) Closing certain businesses and venues.

3) Stopping all gatherings of more than two people in public.

"Every person in the UK must comply with these new measures, which came into effect on Monday 23 March. The relevant authorities, including the police, have been given the powers to enforce them – including through fines and dispersing gatherings."

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ay-from-others

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Just take a walk into Whitchurch Village tomorrow, it must be a sovereign state as the over 50s are doing what the **** they want.

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They've been doing the same since day one in the People's Republic of Rhiwbina.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I am devastated personally as me and five metal mates were going to turn up at your place for a surprise party. We will never get that opportunity now.

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Shut up. The adults are talking.

Can I travel to my second home in England from Wales now ??

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Just take a walk into Whitchurch Village tomorrow, it must be a sovereign state as the over 50s are doing what the **** they want.

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That's not on the nos 27 bus route is it ??

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Today's announcements that people can gather in groups of six (England) or eight (Scotland) from tomorrow (Scotland) and Monday (England) led me to wonder exactly what the rules are in Wales right now because, to be honest, I lost track a while back after each country's government started doing their own thing.

According to the Welsh government's guidance on their website, their intention is to prohibit all public gatherings of more than two people. The exercise guidelines on the same web pages suggest people in Wales should only exercise alone or with members of their own household, but in terms of 'gatherings' the guidance talks about stopping more than two people, except when those people are members of the same household or are attending funerals, carrying out essential work, giving emergency assistance, etc.

Does this therefore mean that, throughout the lockdown, I could have met up with a friend or relative from another household in a public space provided we had kept two metres apart? If that's not the case, then why does the guidance talk about prohibiting gatherings of more than two people?

I want to point out that I'm genuinely not looking to score any political points here - I'm pretty sure the current guidance in Wales is the same as was being given to people in England until fairly recently, and from a personal perspective I believe that both the Westminster government and the Welsh government have been utterly hopeless in their handling of this crisis. It's just that, to me, regulations that prohibit gatherings of more than two people would suggest that 'gatherings' of just two people are acceptable, when I've believed all along that they aren't.

https://gov.wales/staying-home-and-away-others-guidance

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I have no idea of how the regulations have unfolded in Wales but in England a person could meet one other person from another household as long as they stayed outdoors. I think that must have been announced about two weeks ago as I walked with a friend a day or so later.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

That's not on the nos 27 bus route is it ??

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I don't think it is, the 27 goes past my house, if you're ever on it i'll give you a naked wave from my bedroom.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I have no idea of how the regulations have unfolded in Wales but in England a person could meet one other person from another household as long as they stayed outdoors. I think that must have been announced about two weeks ago as I walked with a friend a day or so later.

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I don't think that's the same in Wales, from what i believe.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I have no idea of how the regulations have unfolded in Wales but in England a person could meet one other person from another household as long as they stayed outdoors. I think that must have been announced about two weeks ago as I walked with a friend a day or so later.

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I know, but the thing is the law prohibiting gatherings of more than two people was in force from 23rd March in both England and Wales (and it's still in force here). It's never made any sense to me. After all, if it's against the law for more than two people to gather, then it surely must be within the law for two people to get together?

[QUOTE=The Lone Gunman;5081301]They've been doing the same since day one in the People's Republic of Rhiwbina.[/Q

Don't make me laugh. You make Rhiwbina sound like it is some form of a Communist Utopian region! It's more like an enclave of Trumpism!!

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Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68

Don't make me laugh. You make Rhiwbina sound like it is some form of a Communist Utopian region! It's more like an enclave of Trumpism!!

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I have a suspicion you entirely missed the point I made, ie: that many of the pensioners in this neck of the woods have been whatever they like throughout the lockdown.

However, we do have a Labour MP round these parts.....

I've just gone back over the original regulations and yes it did say in 23 March that no more than 2 people could gather.
Of course that has to be read in conjunction with other parts of the regulation. At the time you could only go out to 1 exercise 2 shop 3 work 4 medical needs. None of those were allowed to be done with anyone but a member of your household (save very exceptional cases).

It is starting to get confusing. We really need to be doing things at the same time now. Heath park is far busier now than it was a few weeks back, people sitting down these days as opposed to keeping on moving.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I have a suspicion you entirely missed the point I made, ie: that many of the pensioners in this neck of the woods have been whatever they like throughout the lockdown.

However, we do have a Labour MP round these parts.....

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Weird, most pensioners I know of haven’t been out the front door!

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Today's announcements that people can gather in groups of six (England) or eight (Scotland) from tomorrow (Scotland) and Monday (England) led me to wonder exactly what the rules are in Wales right now because, to be honest, I lost track a while back after each country's government started doing their own thing.

According to the Welsh government's guidance on their website, their intention is to prohibit all public gatherings of more than two people. The exercise guidelines on the same web pages suggest people in Wales should only exercise alone or with members of their own household, but in terms of 'gatherings' the guidance talks about stopping more than two people, except when those people are members of the same household or are attending funerals, carrying out essential work, giving emergency assistance, etc.

Does this therefore mean that, throughout the lockdown, I could have met up with a friend or relative from another household in a public space provided we had kept two metres apart? If that's not the case, then why does the guidance talk about prohibiting gatherings of more than two people?

I want to point out that I'm genuinely not looking to score any political points here - I'm pretty sure the current guidance in Wales is the same as was being given to people in England until fairly recently, and from a personal perspective I believe that both the Westminster government and the Welsh government have been utterly hopeless in their handling of this crisis. It's just that, to me, regulations that prohibit gatherings of more than two people would suggest that 'gatherings' of just two people are acceptable, when I've believed all along that they aren't.

https://gov.wales/staying-home-and-away-others-guidance

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I think it's been updated but not sure at what point.

I'm having a quick look through the statutory instruments to see if I can spot it.

If you're more than 2 metres away someone, are you actually meeting them anyway?

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Originally Posted by goats

Weird, most pensioners I know of haven’t been out the front door!

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It was something that amused me greatly during the first few weeks in particular. I’ve been walking home from work in Splott on a regular basis. In the early stages, Cathays was like a ghost town, Heath was all-but deserted, but as soon as you got to Rhiwbina it was noticeably busier and most of those out and about on the streets were pensioners.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I have a suspicion you entirely missed the point I made, ie: that many of the pensioners in this neck of the woods have been whatever they like throughout the lockdown.

However, we do have a Labour MP round these parts.....

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I am well aware that you have a Labour MP in your constituency. Mostly voted or by those living in Whitchurch, I am willing to bet. Although I haven't been to Rhiwbina since the lockdown I have visited the area at least once a week for the last 41 years, since leaving there in May '79. My parents till live in Rhiwbina. It's like the land that time forgot. Most pensioners living there, still think Harold MacMillan is still the prime minister

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

It was something that amused me greatly during the first few weeks in particular. I’ve been walking home from work in Splott on a regular basis. In the early stages, Cathays was like a ghost town, Heath was all-but deserted, but as soon as you got to Rhiwbina it was noticeably busier and most of those out and about on the streets were pensioners.

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Maybe they are so old they don’t give a sh**? My mother’s a bit like that....I’ve had a good life she says, if I go I go

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Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68

I am well aware that you have a Labour MP in your constituency. Mostly voted or by those living in Whitchurch, I am willing to bet. Although I haven't been to Rhiwbina since the lockdown I have visited the area at least once a week for the last 41 years, since leaving there in May '79. My parents till live in Rhiwbina. It's like the land that time forgot. Most pensioners living there, still think Harold MacMillan is still the prime minister

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Like the land that time forgot. Interesting. In what respect?

[QUOTE=Mr Soul '68;5081350]

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

They've been doing the same since day one in the People's Republic of Rhiwbina.[/Q

Don't make me laugh. You make Rhiwbina sound like it is some form of a Communist Utopian region! It's more like an enclave of Trumpism!!

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Is this a double whoosh or did you really think that he was comparing Rhiwbina to China?

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Originally Posted by goats

Maybe they are so old they don’t give a sh**? My mother’s a bit like that....I’ve had a good life she says, if I go I go

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I had a brief chat with one of my pensioner neighbours last weekend. Her and another neighbour were happily chatting away about two feet from each other when I arrived. I mentioned social distancing, but she said: “Oh, I don’t believe in that any more.”

There was no answer to that really. Lots of people around here seem to have given up on the notion of social distancing in recent weeks. The change in attitude has been noticeable.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Today's announcements that people can gather in groups of six (England) or eight (Scotland) from tomorrow (Scotland) and Monday (England) led me to wonder exactly what the rules are in Wales right now because, to be honest, I lost track a while back after each country's government started doing their own thing.

According to the Welsh government's guidance on their website, their intention is to prohibit all public gatherings of more than two people. The exercise guidelines on the same web pages suggest people in Wales should only exercise alone or with members of their own household, but in terms of 'gatherings' the guidance talks about stopping more than two people, except when those people are members of the same household or are attending funerals, carrying out essential work, giving emergency assistance, etc.

Does this therefore mean that, throughout the lockdown, I could have met up with a friend or relative from another household in a public space provided we had kept two metres apart? If that's not the case, then why does the guidance talk about prohibiting gatherings of more than two people?

I want to point out that I'm genuinely not looking to score any political points here - I'm pretty sure the current guidance in Wales is the same as was being given to people in England until fairly recently, and from a personal perspective I believe that both the Westminster government and the Welsh government have been utterly hopeless in their handling of this crisis. It's just that, to me, regulations that prohibit gatherings of more than two people would suggest that 'gatherings' of just two people are acceptable, when I've believed all along that they aren't.

https://gov.wales/staying-home-and-away-others-guidance

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It's not been changed unless the legislation website isn't up to date although the latest amendments around recycling centres are in there which was the 11th May.

Does this therefore mean that, throughout the lockdown, I could have met up with a friend or relative from another household in a public space provided we had kept two metres apart? If that's not the case, then why does the guidance talk about prohibiting gatherings of more than two people?

I don't think you could have met someone as earlier paras in the reg prohibit leaving the house for most things other than exercise extra unless alone or with members of your house or carer. Without reading through the lot it could be a bit of a catch all around incidental meetings or a clumsily bit of legislation which would come as no surprise given the speed it was written.

You could meet, but not arrange to meet.

If you both happened to walk the same route every day at the same time, though in opposite directions, and stopped to talk when you saw each other, while socially distanced, that would be ok.

If you arranged to meet at that spot and went there to do so, that would be in breach of the rules.

It is somewhat nuanced, to say the least!

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Originally Posted by rich munn

You could meet, but not arrange to meet.

If you both happened to walk the same route every day at the same time, though in opposite directions, and stopped to talk when you saw each other, while socially distanced, that would be ok.

If you arranged to meet at that spot and went there to do so, that would be in breach of the rules.

It is somewhat nuanced, to say the least!

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Just apply Cummins law

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I had a brief chat with one of my pensioner neighbours last weekend. Her and another neighbour were happily chatting away about two feet from each other when I arrived. I mentioned social distancing, but she said: “Oh, I don’t believe in that any more.”

There was no answer to that really. Lots of people around here seem to have given up on the notion of social distancing in recent weeks. The change in attitude has been noticeable.

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This is why track and trace won't work here. If people get an alert (assuming they've even downloaded the app) telling them they've been in contact with a carrier and they need to self isolate for a week when they feel fine, it won't happen in most cases