https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/el...mayors-1407490
appalling stuff this, straight out of the American right wing playbook.
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https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/el...mayors-1407490
appalling stuff this, straight out of the American right wing playbook.
How do you come to that conclusion? It's the norm in western European liberal democracies.
If anything, it's straight out of that playbook.
because the discourse around it is practically the same as in the states, where the right are bringing it in under the pretence of counteracting a miniscule problem with voter fraud, when the real reason is to dissuade certain groups of people from voting.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I'm amazed there aren't any Tory MPs with the integrity to speak out against this.
it's clearly not the same as some European countries that have various long standing I'd requirements. i.e. in France everyone must carry ID at all times anyway, so it doesn't have any bias effect at the polling station
If it makes society worse you can guarantee that jameswales will find a way to justify it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Another ad hominem attack, and it's not even 10.30am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
As usual, you have taken a rather radical reaction to this. Scandinavian countries are generally considered the best societies om earth, they require voter ID.
It will have absolutely no impact on society and if anything will booster faith in democracy. As standard, you take an extreme position on it, whipped up no doubt by things you've read online that are designed to make you angry.
Never understood the opposition to this ??
That is no surprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
In all seriousness though, whilst I get the issue in principle, do you have any evidence from the multitude of countries (incl Northern Ireland) that require ID to vote that justifies the rather strongly worded fears people have?Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
There is a lot of evidence that the requirement (especially where ID cards are not already part of normal civil society) has the effect - and the intention (!) - of suppressing electoral participation from particular groups. Those groups are normally poorer, blacker and more marginalised, and less likely to support parties that most benefit the rich, powerful establishment. We should be taking down barriers to voting, not putting more up.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/...racy/voter-id/
If there were evidence of electoral fraud on a significant scale you might understand it. But there isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Good to see David Davies speaking out against this. I'm sure he's not bee "whipped up by things he's read online to make him angry about it"
Yeah he has a very long standing opposition to all forms of ID cards I believe. I'm not saying people have to support it, but this talk of wicked governments trying to steal votes from poor and non-white people etc. That's just false, and dangerously false stuff really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
FWIW, I think it would need to be trialled first and then initially should be paper ID being acceptable. I see no issue with someone bringing a form of address or something. I've worked many elections and if anything it speeds things up when people bring the letters with them. I just dont think we have much to lose.
It doesn't matter if they're not trying to steal votes (even though they are), this is the result.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Many people can't afford ID or don't have any, what's your plan to get around that?
Free ID?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doucas
In terms of stealing votes, I note a lot of people apoplectic about this ID proposal were happy to endorse a second referendum on EU membership, so I shall take their democratic concerns with a pinch of salt.
Free ID would be a small step to answering the main concerns - but just a small one.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
On your second point, the only person I remember advocating a second Brexit vote solely on the grounds that he wanted a second go was Nigel Farage - on the night of the referendum when he thought his side had lost. All other calls for a second referendum were on the basis that the first one was a blind vote on the principle; a second vote would be on the detailed 'offer'. I didn't (and don't) support a second referendum, but I do like a bit of honesty in how the case is presented.
Basically you're putting up calls for more democracy as a counter argument to prospective moves that would suppress votes in an election (or referendum). Given that I will take all your comments with more than a pinch of salt!
All this I'd nonsense doesn't stop folk giving up their details for : free by pass , benefit, vaccine , NHS registration, old age Pension claim , winter fuel claims, topping up gas / electricity payment cards , ordering on amazon ,credit cards spends , house rents mobile phone ,TV subscriptions. Ffs
What's to hide ?
I have to say, I am sympathetic to your position, as I dont support compulsory ID, I oppose things like a cashless society, CCTV everywhere, covid passes etc. I am in essence a libertarian.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
However, I also object to rather extreme reactions to things. This is something that is the absolute norm in many parts of the world where the things being stated simply don't happen. If anything, turnout is higher and people are more engaged.
I also know, from working at elections which I do, that there are no checks whatsoever. IF someone knew someone wasnt voting there is nothing to stop them going to vote on their behalf. We simply have no idea to what extent this happens as its impossible to assess.
As a first step, I think its reasonable at least to trial this and see what the impact is. At the very least the debate should be done with less hysteria because the net result of that is to create paranoia within certain communities that the government hates them - something which perhaps has consequences when certain communities in turn are less likely to trust the government on vaccines etc.
I just think turn the dial down a bit - the stuff you posted before from the campaign group against this is perfecrly reasonable stuff, but some of the far-left rhetoric is just ridiculous and not based on any democratic concerns, but all about stirring the race pot for their own benefit.
ya know, it just isnt the case that the big bad government are trying to steal your vote. Thats extreme conspiracy theory stuff.