BBC Eu referendum debate

"Boris....Boris...Boris, can I make one point"

Everyone seems to want to talk to Boris tonight but I'm waiting for the person so desperate for British voters to be given a chance to make British law away from the unelected EU to tell us what his stance on the AV referendum was or his concerns about Lynton Crosby and Rupert Murdoch's ties to his party.

So much misinformation in this referendum that no matter what your stance you are going to end up to siding with some pretty dodgy quotes and characters. Is there any point at having referendums if this has been the case for the last three?

When John Major implies that only in a general election can you enter squalid debate and misinformation then surely we have our own democracy to sort out before looking at whether we can reform the EU or need to leave?

Ruth Davidson has been star tonight.Very strong.

Tonight's ratings:

Johnson 6
Stuart 5
Leadsom 5

Davidson 8
Khan 5
O Grady 2

turned off after 1/2 hour as the questions and answers were the same as the last tv debate

any how i,ve already voted so nothing can change my mind now !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Ruth Davidson has been star tonight.Very strong.

---

They could do with her in Westminster.

What was the reason for Cameron's absence?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhiw-Blue

What was the reason for Cameron's absence?

---

No taxi's :hehe:

Ruth Davidson did well tonight and I can see how she's moving ahead of Labour in Scotland, but the Tories backed SNP more than most and want to be called the opposition? I wonder how much of her seemingly sensible comments reflect their actions....just like with most other vocal politicians on this matter.

Who is the former Tory adviser who appeared on question time with Ed Milliband recently? To me the leave campaign should be far more of his ilk than Boris, Farage and Patel: they should be looking at painting us as a country that can open up our own democracy and innovate because we're small rather than having many hours of negotiation. Instead the faces of the leave campaign look like wanting to take back control for themselves and friends.

I could'nt disagree more.I am not sure the best way to go but found the remain trio weak and rude a complete turn off as far as I am concerned.

Davidson was the only remain candidate to speak well even if from my point of view it was more of the same scaremongering drivel.
If Cameron chose to sit that one out it was a mistake imo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhiw-Blue

Davidson was the only remain candidate to speak well even if from my point of view it was more of the same scaremongering drivel.
If Cameron chose to sit that one out it was a mistake imo

---

Do you include the secondary panel in that? Tim Farron has been the only one to consistently spout the positive points of the EU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by surge

Do you include the secondary panel in that? Tim Farron has been the only one to consistently spout the positive points of the EU.

---

I don't no. I was referring to the 3 on the main stage.
I actually like Caroline Lucas too but don't agree on this matter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elysium

Tonight's ratings:

Johnson 6
Stuart 5
Leadsom 5

Davidson 8
Khan 5
O Grady 2

---

That'll be Gisela Stuart, nee Gschaider, who was born in Germany and migrated to England when she was twenty voting to deny others the same opportunity she had yeah?
Tells you all you need to know about the motives of most politicians doesn't it?

I must confess, I was watching Spain v Croatia (#Crospa?) so only saw a few minutes during half time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TH63

That'll be Gisela Stuart, nee Gschaider, who was born in Germany and migrated to England when she was twenty voting to deny others the same opportunity she had yeah?
Tells you all you need to know about the motives of most politicians doesn't it?

I must confess, I was watching Spain v Croatia (#Crospa?) so only saw a few minutes during half time.

---

That's not very fair is it? I don't think anyone wants to deny anyone of anything, you simply can't provide what you haven't got, if there is a lack of housing and school places then it's not really the same opportunity that she had.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R

That's not very fair is it? I don't think anyone wants to deny anyone of anything, you simply can't provide what you haven't got, if there is a lack of housing and school places then it's not really the same opportunity that she had.

---

Around the time she migrated to the UK, (1974), we were in recession, double digit inflation, petrol rationing, the three day week. My point being, we were in a far worse state than we are now.
As I said, I didn't really watch the debate, and I acknowledge your point about housing, but the reason for a lack of housing is not as simple as immigration. Sure that's an issue, but not the only one.
We currently build less than half the number of houses per year than we did in the 50's - 70's, and less than the last labour government's target, there are a number of factors including private developers drip-feeding building land in order to keep land values high, planning regulations and the lack of council houses.
i may walk around cardiff in a daze half the time, but I don't see much evidence of immigration, but I accept that people are concerned about it, but IF we leave the EU and IF we secure a trade deal with them, that deal will come at a price. And that price may well be to accept the same terms on free movement that we have now, the only difference being we would have zero influence on them.

I've cast my postal vote already after hearing nothing from the leave side to make me change my view that we would, marginally, be better off that way. I did so with no great enthusiasm, but i'll admit that a factor in my decision was that the thought of me being partly responsible for leaving the likes of Johnson and Farage in a much more powerful position on Friday than they are now.

However, I may just have felt differently about which way to vote if I had read this article first.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ur-party-loser

On the other hand, after reading this piece by the same lady, maybe I was right along.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ity-other-side

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R

That's not very fair is it? I don't think anyone wants to deny anyone of anything, you simply can't provide what you haven't got, if there is a lack of housing and school places then it's not really the same opportunity that she had.

---

That is such a phoney argument as if school places and houses are finite and migrants are people who have to be given things and looked after. You are better than that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mrs Steve R

That's not very fair is it? I don't think anyone wants to deny anyone of anything, you simply can't provide what you haven't got, if there is a lack of housing and school places then it's not really the same opportunity that she had.

---

But that's a fault of this government in my opinion. Public services have been squeezed financially. Not enough housing has been built.

We know as fact that migration earns the treasury a few billion in tax receipts every year and costs very little in comparison in benefits. A fraction of that money would ease the situation, but we've got a government hell bent on austerity for political reasons. Most economists say the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TH63

I accept that people are concerned about it, but IF we leave the EU and IF we secure a trade deal with them, that deal will come at a price. And that price may well be to accept the same terms on free movement that we have now, the only difference being we would have zero influence on them.

---

That's exactly it and people don't see this.

If we vote to leave, at some point the UK will have to get around the same table as the EU to discuss trade deals etc. When we announce we're going to control EU immigration, do people really believe the EU would let emigration from the UK carry on as normal, if we've restricted the flow in the opposite direction? Of course they won't. That'll mean lots of UK nationals being less able to work, live and study abroad.

It's the same with trade deals. I understand that trade from the EU accounts for something like 12% of our GDP. Trade with the UK accounts for something like 3-4% of the EU GDP. That means in future discussions, the EU will hold the upper hand. The line spun that the EU needs the UK more than we need the EU is absolute bollocks.

If we vote leave I think relations with the EU will end up becoming more distanced as the UK is unable to get its own way as Brexit believes it can. To "take control" we'll be negotiating deals elsewhere in the hope that covers the shortfall. To make Britain great again we need a solid manufacturing base. Erm, not looking good because our attention has been almost entirely on the finance sector.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TH63

Around the time she migrated to the UK, (1974), we were in recession, double digit inflation, petrol rationing, the three day week. My point being, we were in a far worse state than we are now.
As I said, I didn't really watch the debate, and I acknowledge your point about housing, but the reason for a lack of housing is not as simple as immigration. Sure that's an issue, but not the only one.
We currently build less than half the number of houses per year than we did in the 50's - 70's, and less than the last labour government's target, there are a number of factors including private developers drip-feeding building land in order to keep land values high, planning regulations and the lack of council houses.
i may walk around cardiff in a daze half the time, but I don't see much evidence of immigration, but I accept that people are concerned about it, but IF we leave the EU and IF we secure a trade deal with them, that deal will come at a price. And that price may well be to accept the same terms on free movement that we have now, the only difference being we would have zero influence on them.

---

Not sure where I blamed the lack of housing on immigration? tbh I feel sorry for anyone who comes here hoping for a better future because they are heading for the same shitfest of tyranny that we are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

That is such a phoney argument as if school places and houses are finite and migrants are people who have to be given things and looked after. You are better than that.

---

Given things? I am not saying that at all, it does not matter who comes here or where from, it's a legal requirement in this country to send your children to school is it not? you are not given school places, you have to have them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

But that's a fault of this government in my opinion. Public services have been squeezed financially. Not enough housing has been built.

We know as fact that migration earns the treasury a few billion in tax receipts every year and costs very little in comparison in benefits. A fraction of that money would ease the situation, but we've got a government hell bent on austerity for political reasons. Most economists say the same.

---

Everything is the fault of the government, always. :biggrin: