Bottom line. Are we a mid table team because of the squad or the Manager?

I had long believed that a number of our players were capable of more. I am not so sure now.
However it would be unfair to dismiss the injuries or the fixture list. Similarly if players are on the subs bench they should be be good enough to start.

What I believe we do know is that our style of football doesn’t sustained success.

I think we're the probably the 9th best side in the league because of our squad (specifically the previous manager's odd take on squad building) and are currently placed 12th with a good chunk of the difference down to the current manager.

I think we’ll know by the end of January, we have a lot of winnable games coming up over the next 5 weeks, if the team doesn’t look like challenging for the top six by then it’ll either be down to poor tactics and/or team selection or too many individual mistakes and performances. My feeling is we’ve got a better than mid mid table squad, anything other than top six at the end of the season and I think we’ll be under new management for the 2021/22 season, Harris has been a manager who can get teams a winning runs, but also see them get stuck in a rut, he needs a consistent second half of the season to keep his job.

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Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY

I had long believed that a number of our players were capable of more. I am not so sure now.
However it would be unfair to dismiss the injuries or the fixture list. Similarly if players are on the subs bench they should be be good enough to start.

What I believe we do know is that our style of football doesn’t sustained success.

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It is the squad. Harris over achieved last season in getting the team to the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY

I had long believed that a number of our players were capable of more. I am not so sure now.
However it would be unfair to dismiss the injuries or the fixture list. Similarly if players are on the subs bench they should be be good enough to start.

What I believe we do know is that our style of football doesn’t sustained success.

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Which ones?

The squad isnt strong enough.

We need a right back , midfielder and a striker at a minimum to challenge.

It looks like we need to get players out to get some in.

Squad. Which of our players get in Norwich, Watford, Bournemouth or Brentford’s team? I don’t think one player. It’s a complete freak year but the point still stands, we are mid table because we have mid table players. I think if Moore gets back fit and replicates his form, he could be a PL footballer.

Because of the club. Joe ralls has done well with us, i reckon that if he'd have been developed by a club that invested more in footballing awareness, comfort in possession and confidence in advanced areas, he'd be a much better player.

Both

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Which ones?

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Wilson.
Ralls.
Murphy.
Hoilet.
Bacuna.

To be honest it is a bit of both.
If you look at the current clubs in the top 6 then you would be hard pressed to see more than a couple of City players who would push for a place. One of them might be Wilson, who is a loanee.
Our recruitment in the last 2-3 seasons has been poor with extremely average signings to fit into an average style of play.
The top 6 teams make us look like there is a gap of a division in the way we play. That has got to be the fault of the coach.
I did state when Warnock was dismissed, that we needed a manager with new ideas and a 2-3 year period for implementation. Mid table mediocrity while building in the correct way would have been far more acceptable than what we are doing today.
Posters who keep talking about a top 6 finish are completely deluded.

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Originally Posted by DubaiDai

To be honest it is a bit of both.
If you look at the current clubs in the top 6 then you would be hard pressed to see more than a couple of City players who would push for a place. One of them might be Wilson, who is a loanee.
Our recruitment in the last 2-3 seasons has been poor with extremely average signings to fit into an average style of play.
The top 6 teams make us look like there is a gap of a division in the way we play. That has got to be the fault of the coach.
I did state when Warnock was dismissed, that we needed a manager with new ideas and a 2-3 year period for implementation. Mid table mediocrity while building in the correct way would have been far more acceptable than what we are doing today.
Posters who keep talking about a top 6 finish are completely deluded.

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Under Warnock and under Harris last season we could compete with the better sides, the ones who played. It was a stretch although we seemed to find a way of doing it. This season has seen us found out by the better sides, they've worked out the final number in the combination to stopping us having any success against them, and that's to match us physically. Do that and we can't compete against the likes of Norwich, Bournemouth, Swansea etc. I would say Watford, but i don't think that they were that good.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Wilson.
Ralls.
Murphy.
Hoilet.
Bacuna.

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What has Murphy done to be included? Hoilett is a fine player but starting to show just how long he's been involved in high profile football.

Biggest criticism of transfers made under Harris would be starting season with just one RB. Think it's really hard to be critical of any other decision that's been made, if you're being realistic about our options. In retrospect, extending Tomlin and Nelson may be considered misses but they were each hits at the time of doing the deals. Transfer business has been one of the major strengths during Harris' time so far and without this we'd be a lot worse than being 9th best.

The Top four at the moment are clearly the best footballing teams and should finish there, in no particular order. Watford arent as fluent but they do have match winners so they should make the play offs too. The rest of us are scrapping it out for 6th. It's early days but I think Warnock will have the edge and sneak it for Boro.

There's plenty of points to play for and in typical toe to toe championship matches we will win more than we lose. We're just incapable of beating slick footballing teams as we chase shadows and tire in games.

If we are lucky enough to see Tomlin & Moore for a significant part of the season that could be the key to a late surge as they're both quality at this level but without that combination I'm afraid we're bang average, or slightly above. We desperately need Jordi back too.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Wilson.
Ralls.
Murphy.
Hoilet.
Bacuna.

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Would you swap Wilson for Buendia, Sarr, Mbuemo, Cantwell, Brooks etc? No.

Hoilett's legs have gone, Ralls is limited (but I agree), Bacuna is out of position and Murphy has stunk out the place for the best part of 3 seasons. Comes a time when it stops being the manager and starts to be the player.

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Originally Posted by 198bore

The Top four at the moment are clearly the best footballing teams and should finish there, in no particular order. Watford arent as fluent but they do have match winners so they should make the play offs too. The rest of us are scrapping it out for 6th. It's early days but I think Warnock will have the edge and sneak it for Boro.

There's plenty of points to play for and in typical toe to toe championship matches we will win more than we lose. We're just incapable of beating slick footballing teams as we chase shadows and tire in games.

If we are lucky enough to see Tomlin & Moore for a significant part of the season that could be the key to a late surge as they're both quality at this level but without that combination I'm afraid we're bang average, or slightly above. We desperately need Jordi back too.

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IF Boro go up through the playoffs, will they replace Warnock in the summer - which is what we should have done?

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Originally Posted by fingers

IF Boro go up through the playoffs, will they replace Warnock in the summer - which is what we should have done?

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I think the last two seasons have shown the massive limitations of the squad and not even Pep or Mourninho would have kept us up with the money we spent.

I'd say both. After 21 games, the top five in the Championship table are the three sides who were relegated from the Premier League last season and two of the three teams who contested last season's play-offs with eventual winners Fulham. No prizes for guessing which of last season's play-off semi-finalists is missing from the current shake-up.

I doubt they'll make it but if they do, and he does have that x-factor to cause an upset, then I expect they'll be as grateful as we were and stick with him. We did scrap it out until the penultimate game despite everything going against us that season.

Both.

We've a manager with a proven track record for mediocrity, and a team that isn't as good as the likes of Norwich, Brentford or Swansea. Mid-table to just outside the top six is what we are.

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Originally Posted by elytillidie

We've a manager with a proven track record for mediocrity, and a team that isn't as good as the likes of Norwich, Brentford or Swansea. Mid-table to just outside the top six is what we are.

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Unfortunately true. Finishing 5th and adding Moore, Wilson & Jodri seemed promising though.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Because of the club. Joe ralls has done well with us, i reckon that if he'd have been developed by a club that invested more in footballing awareness, comfort in possession and confidence in advanced areas, he'd be a much better player.

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Great point.

I think Harris overacheived last season, brought in some good signings but has been limited by the mess Warnock left

I don't think Harris is a particularly good manager, but he's done better than I expected

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Originally Posted by surge

What has Murphy done to be included? Hoilett is a fine player but starting to show just how long he's been involved in high profile football.

Biggest criticism of transfers made under Harris would be starting season with just one RB. Think it's really hard to be critical of any other decision that's been made, if you're being realistic about our options. In retrospect, extending Tomlin and Nelson may be considered misses but they were each hits at the time of doing the deals. Transfer business has been one of the major strengths during Harris' time so far and without this we'd be a lot worse than being 9th best.

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With regards to Murphy I was responding to this line : Originally Posted by*BLUEAWAY*"I had long believed that a number of our players were capable of more"

I belive he is capable of more and has undelivered.