Where's the magic gone and will it ever come back?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

We played some of the best stuff i’ve ever seen down the City under Dave Jones, but he still got slated from his hole to his pole, because he didn’t ‘smile’ enough.

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I slated Jones because I thought he was tactically poor. A constant weak central midfield 2 and a squad not fit enough who ultimately continued to fall short.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

I slated Jones because I thought he was tactically poor. A constant weak central midfield 2 and a squad not fit enough who ultimately continued to fall short.

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Weak central midfield two. 😀

It would be like prime Pirlo and Zidane to have a Jones midfield in comparison to what we have now.

Still we'll stay up and that is success to some.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

I think it is caused by a lot of factors but for many football is not how it was.

The move from Ninian Park to the new ground, while needed, lost a lot of character and sanitised the whole experience for many. Some might have welcomed it but it changed the actual match experience for many including myself.

Football has changed, a lot of the aspects I enjoyed have gone out of the game. The meaty challenge, the midfield tussle where players got stuck into one another. I dislike aspects of the game now for the same reason I've never enjoyed watching friendlies. It is like a non contact sport and becoming increasingly so.

There seems a lack of connection between the fans and players that there was. The current team seems a world away from some of the players mentioned here. Your Earnie's, Ledley's and the like. Can't put my finger on why but they just seem disconnected from the fans in a way that wouldn't happen before.

The owners, while still being here, seem to be disinterested and running things on a shoe string while still expecting fans to turn up and give 100% our end just through blind loyalty.

All the above with the pandemic thrown in and people realising that there are things outside of football that they could be doing. I don't think you are the only one who feels less of a buzz about the whole thing.

If that makes me a bed wetter, a Jack or a bed wetting Jack I don't care. I'm not going to say the football is great, the owners and board are clued up or the matchday experience is top notch because it is simply not the case.

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The picture of our fans celebrating with our 3 young players Harris Colwill and Bagan at Forest (of course youve suggested some or all of these are simply not good enough) shows there is a connection with the fans.

Its hard to dispute the football is sh!t but you have a downer on just about everything.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

The picture of our fans celebrating with our 3 young players Harris Colwill and Bagan at Forest (of course youve suggested some or all of these are simply not good enough) shows there is a connection with the fans.

Its hard to dispute the football is sh!t but you have a downer on just about everything.

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I've given my reasoning behind it.

I don't think an academy that doesn't produce players for the first team suddenly starts doing because those above demand it. That's not how these things work but you obviously disagree. Makes you wonder why we didn't do it sooner if it was that easy.

The football is bad, the owner can't be bothered to turn up and is running us on a shoe string with his people and not a football man in sight and people are now saying survival in the Championship is success a little over two seasons after being in the Premier League. I truly am gobsmacked at those that paint a rosy picture out of that but fair play to them.

I asked in another thread but people chose not to answer. What have we changed in the academy for it to now be producing such a glut of players when for years it produced nothing?

Or is the truth closer to the board saying we have to use the kids because we are not giving you the money for new signings?

If people can work out that academies do not start churning out Championship level players time and again overnight but we're forced to use them anyway then what happens is a gradual fall down the league.
Our manager building up Bournemouth as if Real Madrid had rolled into town may be managing expectations in view of this.

People can believe what they like. Nothing wrong with positivity but blind positivity and not seeing things for what they are is something different. I know what I think is going on.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

Just come back from Benidorm where the universal attitude when Cardiff was mentioned was "you should be paid to watch it"

Never mind its better than the dungeon days.:facepalm:

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Oh well if they're saying that in Benidorm that's the final nail for me

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

I asked in another thread but people chose not to answer. What have we changed in the academy for it to now be producing such a glut of players when for years it produced nothing?

Or is the truth closer to the board saying we have to use the kids because we are not giving you the money for new signings?

If people can work out that academies do not start churning out Championship level players time and again overnight but we're forced to use them anyway then what happens is a gradual fall down the league.
Our manager building up Bournemouth as if Real Madrid had rolled into town may be managing expectations in view of this.

People can believe what they like. Nothing wrong with positivity but blind positivity and not seeing things for what they are is something different. I know what I think is going on.

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Academy:

i) Think I'm right in saying this is the group of kids that were very successful at youth level. Others will be able to answer better but didn't we have a youth side competing near the top of their table a few years ago (which we haven't always had) and now we're seeing them come through?

ii) Neil Harris was vocal about creating pathway for youth to first team, Steve Morrison has been a permanent fixture since, the style of play is reportedly now more similar creating and easier transition and 1.5 years later that greater interest in pathway is coming to fruition.

iii) We have a greater interest in youth because a) we need to because of cost cutting and b) it suits our overall vision for the club - younger and more skillful and, presumably, more sustainable without Tan constantly propping us up.

Bournemouth comments:

i) We've got the smallest squad in the division according to Transfer Markt, had played Sunday, Wednesday and Saturday, had at least three first team players out to injuries/covid/need to rest and were playing one of the three sides everyone expects to finish in the top two. Now of course being in that position isn't positive but moaning about an honest comment is boring - it's not unrealistic to identify that it was a tough challenge.

Nothing wrong with negativity but blind negativity and not seeing things for what they are is something different.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

I asked in another thread but people chose not to answer. What have we changed in the academy for it to now be producing such a glut of players when for years it produced nothing?

Or is the truth closer to the board saying we have to use the kids because we are not giving you the money for new signings?

If people can work out that academies do not start churning out Championship level players time and again overnight but we're forced to use them anyway then what happens is a gradual fall down the league.
Our manager building up Bournemouth as if Real Madrid had rolled into town may be managing expectations in view of this.

People can believe what they like. Nothing wrong with positivity but blind positivity and not seeing things for what they are is something different. I know what I think is going on.

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Academies rarely produce finished championship level players. Almost all of them need playing time at a good level in order to reach that level. We've thrown in a bunch of inexperienced players in the last 18 months or so and none of them have looked completely out of place. Will they all spend the majority of their career at this level or higher? no probably not - but a couple of them might.
If we hadn't started to introduce them into the team then probably none of them would ever make it at this level.

There are probably young players in previous academy groups that could have made it but never had the opportunity.
Other clubs in this division have had a pathway to the first team for years, we are just putting in place what should always have been there.

Now we can attract good players to the academy, and the intensity in academy games is probably higher as thy know if they perform well there's a chance they'll get into the first team.

Yes we have almost certainly done this out of necessity rather than lofty ambitions, but it is a good thing to be doing so lets see where it goes .

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Oh well if they're saying that in Benidorm that's the final nail for me

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I think most clubs do their market research in benidorm. That's the best way to get a finger on the pulse.

It does feel a little like we are seeing the fruits of years of football corporatism, fans being disregarded and taken for granted, coupled now with a totally disingenuous PR movement within football that doesnt relate or consider fans much, and just leads a bitter taste in the mouth.

I felt it at the Barnsley game; huge queues, my kid being unable to buy a programme with coins, naff atmosphere, all of it. Even not having a paper ticket - i wanted one for me and my kids for the first game after Covid. City means more than going to Primark or Burger King, but we are just treated like someone with an app attached to us. It's hard to put into words, but there is very little soul, although I'm sure thats an age thing too.

After covid, the wages players earn just seem obscene and genuinely offensive in a way they never were before too. Don't get me wrong, footballers deserve to be paid handsomely and I'd rather they pay tax in the UK than in Spain etc, but £500,000 a week? Even shite City players on £20,000 a week. Seriously, piss off.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It does feel a little like we are seeing the fruits of years of football corporatism, fans being disregarded and taken for granted, coupled now with a totally disingenuous PR movement within football that doesnt relate or consider fans much, and just leads a bitter taste in the mouth.

I felt it at the Barnsley game; huge queues, my kid being unable to buy a programme with coins, naff atmosphere, all of it. Even not having a paper ticket - i wanted one for me and my kids for the first game after Covid. City means more than going to Primark or Burger King, but we are just treated like someone with an app attached to us. It's hard to put into words, but there is very little soul, although I'm sure thats an age thing too.

After covid, the wages players earn just seem obscene and genuinely offensive in a way they never were before too. Don't get me wrong, footballers deserve to be paid handsomely and I'd rather they pay tax in the UK than in Spain etc, but £500,000 a week? Even shite City players on £20,000 a week. Seriously, piss off.

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Attachment 4559

Thing is those dismissing these posts as just moaning is the exact reason fans walk away from the game.

A decent club sees the increasing moans and tries to address them.
Your club who is not in touch with the fans, like City are currently, carries on and alienates people more and more.

If your customers are unhappy with the product (leaving the football out of it for a second) then you listen or pay the price of not doing so.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Oh well if they're saying that in Benidorm that's the final nail for me

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🤣🤣🤣

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Attachment 4559

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tbf, I acknowledged it may be an age thing. My little kids think it's magic.

Nonetheless, if the club just treat me as a customer., as someone that comes with a phone and an app, and I feel exploited then I won't go. Or i wont go as much.

The irony is, not only are we treated like customers, but in many cases we are treated worse than almost any other customer experience.

Asda's cafe provides meals for £1 for the kids. Cardiff ring as much out of a pint as they can.

The glimmer of hope for better days came towards the end on the Bournemouth match when Bagan and Colwill's interplay showed that we can string a few passes together and pose a threat. This season was always going to be one of transition as younger players are grafted onto an older team. That doesn't excuse poor customer service and "hoof it to Kieffer" one track approach to the way we play. Right now, it's a case of going through the motions to attend matches. No excitement leads to lack of motivation. For the first time in a long time, there were empty seats by us in the Canton 104. Seats that are always occupied. And that does not bode well. Lack of communicated ambition (if there is any) and direction, from the club management, adds to the "why bother going" feeling. That said, Blackburn awaits. Some of us are daft enough to turn up come what may.

Cardiff City have ALWAYS been crap at engaging with the fans , it's appalling and I can't see that changing

The move to the new ground hasn't improved things

However our fans have also MOANED for Wales since I have watched them

The team is crap , they moan , they moan , the team is still crap

It's our club and we all love ccfc in our own ways but it's always struggled for support , it's always been financially on the ropes and when we did have chops , boothroyd etc playing good football we were spending money we didn't have to keep them here , on huge wages

I think we are cursed myself

However our fans moan about the club even when we are winning !

It's highly amusing sometimes

From the joy of seeing all those city fans going mad with the young players at forest ........to suicidal despair a week later

This is Cardiff City

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

We are proper rubbish, really bad.
Absolutely Fcking terrible in fact...but the amount of Knicker Wetting is worse than the Football.

Our fans have become a bunch of “Waitrose types”
Right bunch of fcking herberts!!!

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Not sure "Knicker Wetting" is an acceptable term in the 21st century.

I don't think people are talking solely about the football. More the whole game day product package.

i don't know why the board don't paint some fake piss marks down the cladding or recreate a plastic version of The Corp or something....authentic old school matchday experience.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

We are proper rubbish, really bad.
Absolutely Fcking terrible in fact...but the amount of Knicker Wetting is worse than the Football.

Our fans have become a bunch of “Waitrose types”
Right bunch of fcking herberts!!!

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Bloody girls blouses

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

Not sure "Knicker Wetting" is an acceptable term in the 21st century.

I don't think people are talking solely about the football. More the whole game day product package.

i don't know why the board don't paint some fake piss marks down the cladding or recreate a plastic version of The Corp or something....authentic old school matchday experience.

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Yapping police dogs and horses chasing hundreds of Cardiff fans down sloper road as about 80 away fans were kept behind

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Bloody girls blouses

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I think the stand for any old $hit and pretend everything is OK brigade are the big girls blouses if I'm honest but each to their own.

After all we used to be crap....

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

I think the stand for any old $hit and pretend everything is OK brigade are the big girls blouses if I'm honest but each to their own.

After all we used to be crap....

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Grow a pair of bollocks

Derby County and Forest are on their arses

They are bigger clubs than us

We are 9th and a couple of wins from the play offs

The fact is this

A lot of people have been wanting MM to fail even before he managed a game for us and now they can say see , told you so

I think it's infantile and the man needs to be given a chance

If anyone thinks this football club could deal with relegation .....and regroup with a new footballing ethos .......they need a good psychiatrist

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Cardiff City have ALWAYS been crap at engaging with the fans , it's appalling and I can't see that changing

The move to the new ground hasn't improved things

However our fans have also MOANED for Wales since I have watched them

The team is crap , they moan , they moan , the team is still crap

It's our club and we all love ccfc in our own ways but it's always struggled for support , it's always been financially on the ropes and when we did have chops , boothroyd etc playing good football we were spending money we didn't have to keep them here , on huge wages

I think we are cursed myself

However our fans moan about the club even when we are winning !

It's highly amusing sometimes

From the joy of seeing all those city fans going mad with the young players at forest ........to suicidal despair a week later

This is Cardiff City

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I think difference between what your talking about and what the OP is talking about though is the difference between "giving stick" and being disenchanted.

I think that is in part due to a "flatpack" generic stadium ; However shit and unfit for modern football NP was , I think we can ALL agree it had bags more life and character to it than the CCS. I think that is a given.

On top of that, the people who run the club have no real desire to understand its' history or its' supporters. They only want to sell their brand and become successful business people.

The football being shit is by the by.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Grow a pair of bollocks

Derby County and Forest are on their arses

They are bigger clubs than us

We are 9th and a couple of wins from the play offs

The fact is this

A lot of people have been wanting MM to fail even before he managed a game for us and now they can say see , told you so

I think it's infantile and the man needs to be given a chance

If anyone thinks this football club could deal with relegation .....and regroup with a new footballing ethos .......they need a good psychiatrist

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Why don't you grow a pair of bollocks and stop pointing to the basket cases of the footballing world. Forest and Derby are on their arses. Some football clubs are actually in decent shape. You always give examples of the crap end of football.

You think it's infantile. I think it is idiotic to think this board and manager is going to achieve anything.

Happy clappers like you watching $hite football and telling us it is OK and it could be worse are the same big girls blouses that will see the relegation that you speak of.

The tune will change then though. Be something along the lines of 'We're in League One. We used to be the old fourth division. You don't know you're born'.

Why don't you grow a set of bollocks and take your rose tinted specs off while you're at it.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Why don't you grow a pair of bollocks and stop pointing to the basket cases of the footballing world. Forest and Derby are on their arses. Some football clubs are actually in decent shape. You always give examples of the crap end of football.

You think it's infantile. I think it is idiotic to think this board and manager is going to achieve anything.

Happy clappers like you watching $hite football and telling us it is OK and it could be worse are the same big girls blouses that will see the relegation that you speak of.

The tune will change then though. Be something along the lines of 'We're in League One. We used to be the old fourth division. You don't know you're born'.

Why don't you grow a set of bollocks and take your rose tinted specs off while you're at it.

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:hehe:


And

:hehe:

We'll end up in League 1 a lot quicker with happy clappers like Sludge excusing the crap football and the decision makers at this club than with people who are actually concerned about things that aren't right at the club.