Why would Ajayi have signed a contract extension here? I wouldn’t have.
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2 excellent posts by you.... enjoyed reading them both. Well reasoned and objective. Objectivity is a bit of an alien concept on here unfortunately.
I’m pleased for Ajayi but in my opinion he’s an average Championship level defender at best... and we’ve had, and still have, a bunch of those
I'm not sure where i said we should be dropping first choice centrebacks for Ajayi, what I said is that we could have tried to keep him with a promise that his chance would come soon given the age of those in front of him and the possible departure of Manga. Based on the quote from him that has been posted in the thread, that may well not have been enough to keep him here, but, as I said earlier, the success he's had since leaving us does raise questions about decision making at the club regarding his contract, especially in light of the fee spent on Aden Flint.
I accept that I'm banging this drum loud, but I've never had a problem on here admitting to having made a mistake and I might be here, but to accuse me (presumably you meant me?) of lacking objectivity and then saying Ajayi is "an average Championship level defender at best" in your next sentence is going it a bit when you consider that he was a regular starter both for a promotion winning side last season and again in the Premier Division. Do you seriously think he would be doing that if he was just "average" for the division below the one he is currently playing in?
This in my opinion is where your intransigence is shining through. What have you seen that says he’s anything more than an average Championship defender, which is what he’ll be again next season.
I also think that Morrison who had exactly the same credentials you are espousing for Ajayi is also just an average Championship defender... as were Bamba, Manga, Bennett and Peltier (who also got signed by WBA).
So, you're saying that Ajayi plus all of the defenders we had at the club when we got promoted were average at Championship level? I accept that there is an argument to say that they aren't Premier League standard, but you genuinely believe that none of those you list are good Championship defenders (and weren't when we got promoted?)? All I can say is that you have very demanding standards.
Sean Morrison appeared in the 2019-2020 Whoscored team of the year:
He did not appear in the PFA team of the year for the same season. Ajayi didn't make that PFA team either but he does appear in the Sky Championship pundits team of the year:Quote:
Partnering Hutchinson at the back is Cardiff's Sean Morrison. Only Preston's Patrick Bauer (249) won more aerial duels than Morrison (243) in the Championship this season. The 29-year-old scored four and assisted two for the Bluebirds, while no player won more WhoScored.com man of the match awards than Morrison (10) to contribute towards his inclusion in this team with a rating of 7.26.
Think you might have higher expectations for really good Championship defenders than is fair considering two of those who described as average were in some (not all) of the best 11 for last season.Quote:
And White's partner at the back is West Brom's Ajayi, signed from Rotherham in the summer and has quickly established himself as one of the top defenders in the Championship. Four of our six pundits selected him in their side
Maybe it’s our respective definitions of Championship defenders... I suppose my perspective is that none of them are anything more than average. I’d suggest that you could probably take a centre half from any team in the Championship and drop them into any of the other 23 teams and they’d probably do just fine. Let’s say there are 92 regular starting centre halves ... it’s very rare you get a stand out player in that position in this league... if they existed there’d be a queue of interested top half premier league teams for them...
I don’t recall anyone ever being interested in any of our defenders being in those conversations. In fact we’ve only really had a few that have ever been able to bridge the gap between average (because that’s what I think a Championship level player generally is) and having a Premier League career... Outside of Gabbidon, Collins and maybe Johnson (who went downhill quickly) I’m struggling with any more who made their name with us in that position
When I started this thread my point was really that he never made a single appearance in any competition for us before being released on a Free. With that in mind I’m surprised there are so many insights about him as he went completely under the radar for me. I posted it after reading a post by a WBA fan stating he thought he was Bilic’s best signing for their club.
Reply to Surge:
You’d probably be right about my expectations but I’m not sure that some select XI’s from whoscored.com and a bunch of Championship ‘pundits’ are significant enough for me to change my perspective
I think you’ve done a good job of showing that certain players aren’t Premier League standard there, but I struggle to se how you can lump almost every centre back in the Championship together as being much of a muchness. A week on Friday, Sean Morrison will be thirty and so that might well be enough to put some clubs off him, but if we had been looking to sell him at any time in the four or five years since we signed him, I think there may have been one or two PremierLeague teams interested in him, but I’m pretty sure there would have been a fair few from the Championship because I think he’s seen as a good defender in this division within the game.
I think your last sentence is where we differ. Good defenders at this level are just that... and I do think they are much of a muchness, which is where my ‘average’ language comes from. Very rarely do they turn into anything more. They may get you into the top half of the Championship but that’s about it for most of them.
Are good defenders at this level more about consistency of performance rather than talent levels? Morrison is one of the most consistently above average defenders at this level but you could probably find an equally talented defender who shows their skills once every four games. That's why McNaughton could do it at CB for 2 games in a row but was found out if asked to do more than that.
Premier league is looking for talent and consistency and most defenders at this level aren't able to get there while some others can but still need coaching up.
Unlikely that Morrison was ever going to attract premier league interest but he's definitely one of the better ones at this level.
This will be a quiet thread tonight
The fact that Lee Peltier started just reinforces the average nature of Championship defenders... the fact that they conceded 5 puts a cherry on the top