Is violence to genuine football fans what religion is to actual Christianity?

Religion has rightly has been criticised on a recent thread - but do the majority who oppose religion realise that just as the genuine City fan has often been confused with those seeking mindless violence, genuine Christianity is not to be confused with dead man-made religion? :sherlock:

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Religion has rightly has been criticised on a recent thread - but do the majority who oppose religion realise that just as the genuine City fan has often been confused with those seeking mindless violence, genuine Christianity is not to be confused with dead man-made religion? :sherlock:

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The word 'Christianity' somehow evokes the name of a man who was once alive but now dead. The people who selected and edit various screeds that form the current version of The Bible were men who are now dead. If Matthew, Mark, Luke and John ever existed it's pretty safe to assume they are no more. Noah, who supposedly lived until he was 950, presumably snuffed it eventually. The disciples must be rather old if they aren't dead. Adam has to have croaked by now surely. Various heads of churches throughout the centuries, including popes and archbishops have, if they are fortunate, met their makers. Maybe we should consider plant-formed deities as they are far more organic.

I have no idea what's going on here.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Religion has rightly has been criticised on a recent thread - but do the majority who oppose religion realise that just as the genuine City fan has often been confused with those seeking mindless violence, genuine Christianity is not to be confused with dead man-made religion? :sherlock:

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I can see what you are saying but the very edifice that is pure Christianity is based on no evidence at all so its very difficult but to question its existence .

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I can see what you are saying but the very edifice that is pure Christianity is based on no evidence at all so its very difficult but to question its existence .

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As pure Christianity is Biblical Christianity and the events of the life, death and resurrection of Christ can be affirmed within and without Biblical support, then your 'no evidence at all' makes little sense?

Doesn’t being a genuine christian, just mean living an honest life, and helping as many folk as possible?

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

As pure Christianity is Biblical Christianity and the events of the life, death and resurrection of Christ can be affirmed within and without Biblical support, then your 'no evidence at all' makes little sense?

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You can prove the somebody called Jesus died and was resurrected?

Most of what was written about Jesus was done after he died so the witnesses to this resurrection were not even there

Affirm is to prove or provide evidence ?

I know that if I pour petrol on a fire it gets more powerful , that's evidence backed up by science

For me there is no evidence of the existence of God, christ doing miracles etc and the afterlife so unless someone comes up with any it all stops there .

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Doesn’t being a genuine christian, just mean living an honest life, and helping as many folk as possible?

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Just cut out the Christian bit

Leviathan..get ****ed..

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Originally Posted by kendoddsdadsdogsdead

Leviathan..get ****ed..

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Take up thy bed and walk ? Its a giveaway !

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

I have no idea what's going on here.

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Haha join the club

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Originally Posted by UNDERHILL1927

Haha join the club

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I've read it more than once as well.

I read once that if you give a typewriter to a chimpanzee, and let them randomly hit the keyboard for long enough, they'd eventually type out the entire bible.
Is that how Christianity started?

I don't get what anyone gets from taking the piss out of it?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Doesn’t being a genuine christian, just mean living an honest life, and helping as many folk as possible?

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Being a good person and helping others does not qualify as being a Christian in itself and non-believers shouldn't expect a benevolent ticket to the afterlife based purely on good deeds:

John 3:36: “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Thessalonians 1:8-9
"In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

Deuteronomy 28:47-48 ESV / 38 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you.

Deuteronomy 28:47-48
"Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you"

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

I read once that if you give a typewriter to a chimpanzee, and let them randomly hit the keyboard for long enough, they'd eventually type out the entire bible.
Is that how Christianity started?

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Probably

I was forced to try and read it as a kid , I was given a book called catacisms or something , I used to come home from school saying to my old man this is all silly

I was 12 , I was more interested in going fishing

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Being a good person and helping others does not qualify as being a Christian in itself and non-believers shouldn't expect a benevolent ticket to the afterlife based purely on good deeds:

John 3:36: “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Thessalonians 1:8-9
"In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

Deuteronomy 28:47-48 ESV / 38 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you.

Deuteronomy 28:47-48
"Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you"

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The big contradiction being that this only applies to non-believers in the eyes of believers. As a non-believer it's irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

I've read it more than once as well.

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And you have said that more than once too

Why bother reading a thread about Christianity if you know there will be people justifying it , people argue in against it and people taking the piss

You know the score , go and do a crossword or something

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Being a good person and helping others does not qualify as being a Christian in itself and non-believers shouldn't expect a benevolent ticket to the afterlife based purely on good deeds:

John 3:36: “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Thessalonians 1:8-9
"In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"

Deuteronomy 28:47-48 ESV / 38 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you.

Deuteronomy 28:47-48
"Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you"

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Well if that's what God is like I will stick to Black Sabbath

Sounds like right nasty git

Maybe God as people think of him/her died years ago and nobody bothered telling the masses???

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

And you have said that more than once too

Why bother reading a thread about Christianity if you know there will be people justifying it , people argue in against it and people taking the piss

You know the score , go and do a crossword or something

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Well done.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

The big contradiction being that this only applies to non-believers in the eyes of believers. As a non-believer it's irrelevant.

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It's not really a contradiction. Dem's da rules for those in da club.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

It's not really a contradiction. Dem's da rules for those in da club.

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I am joining another club

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Doesn’t being a genuine christian, just mean living an honest life, and helping as many folk as possible?

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No, because you can be an Atheist a Muslim or a Buddhist and do all that, which would not mean that you would suddenly become a Christian.

When Paul wrote to Titus, in chapter 3v5 he said this - "He (Christ) saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit".

Again that's what scientific speculation often says, hoping to be true!
In fact monkeys have been left for long periods of time and typed loads of letters on page after page.
The result was this, even given that a proper word could be a space followed by an "I" (or an "A") then followed by another space, the monkeys didn't even produce one legitimate word, let alone the encyclopedia britannica or even one word from the Bible.
And no, they didn't use monkeys from the Swansea area :hehe:

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

I read once that if you give a typewriter to a chimpanzee, and let them randomly hit the keyboard for long enough, they'd eventually type out the entire bible.
Is that how Christianity started?

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Again that's what scientific speculation often says, hoping to be true!
In fact monkeys in a controlled experiment have been left for long periods of time and typed loads of letters on page after page.
The result was this, even given that a proper word could be a space followed by an "I" (or an "A") then followed by another space, the monkeys didn't even produce one legitimate word, let alone the encyclopedia britannica or even one word from the Bible.
And no, they didn't use monkeys from the Swansea area :hehe:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Probably

I was forced to try and read it as a kid , I was given a book called catacisms or something , I used to come home from school saying to my old man this is all silly

I was 12 , I was more interested in going fishing

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You were force fed religion, I would agree with you that religion makes no sense and only drives people away from their Creator, not the opposite.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You can prove the somebody called Jesus died and was resurrected?

Most of what was written about Jesus was done after he died so the witnesses to this resurrection were not even there
Affirm is to prove or provide evidence ?
I know that if I pour petrol on a fire it gets more powerful , that's evidence backed up by science
For me there is no evidence of the existence of God, christ doing miracles etc and the afterlife so unless someone comes up with any it all stops there .

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Yes, most of what was written about Christ was written after His death, resurrection and ascension.
However it was written by eye witnesses who saw Him AND many who lived and/ or travelled with Him.

Also, does Science provide the answers to the biggest questions about life?

Origin - Purpose - Destiny?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You can prove the somebody called Jesus died and was resurrected?

Most of what was written about Jesus was done after he died so the witnesses to this resurrection were not even there

Affirm is to prove or provide evidence ?

I know that if I pour petrol on a fire it gets more powerful , that's evidence backed up by science

For me there is no evidence of the existence of God, christ doing miracles etc and the afterlife so unless someone comes up with any it all stops there .

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PROVE that somebody died and was resurrected?

Have you watched this 2017 Film about an skeptical award winning journalist who investigates this - and like you, the last thing he wants to find is that he is looking at actual History.....

THE CASE FOR CHRIST (2017)

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

You were force fed religion, I would agree with you that religion makes no sense and only drives people away from their Creator, not the opposite.

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Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Interesting.

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I said what I said concerning religion because it has so many futile man-made ideas in it that it only serves to keep people away from genuine Christianity. When most people encounter the real thing then they notice that there is a difference :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Religion has rightly has been criticised on a recent thread - but do the majority who oppose religion realise that just as the genuine City fan has often been confused with those seeking mindless violence, genuine Christianity is not to be confused with dead man-made religion? :sherlock:

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Surely all religions are man-made, so the whole basis of the question is flawed.

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Originally Posted by cityhammer

Surely all religions are man-made, so the whole basis of the question is flawed.

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Correct, all religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to a Holy God.

Although many would class following Christ to also be a religion (hence your above comment) then I will explain the difference as revealed in the Bible:-

1. We are informed - "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" - in other words despite our best efforts, we will not make it, like swimming from Ireland to New York no matter how well we can swim, we will perish.
Therefore we are all guilty before God and without hope of saving ourselves. Hence religion is hopeless.

2. Christ offers to pay our fine and stand in our place, meaning He offers us the Gift of being saved from the penalty of our rebellion/ sin/ failure - whatever you wish to call it. He acheived the ability to offer us this by suffering and dying at Calvary after He had lived a sinless life and therefore needn't have died at all - ie He laid down His life for you & me.

The Bible puts it this way > "But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners" (Romans 5:8).

If you have any questions on this then please fire away :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Correct, all religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to a Holy God.

Although many would class following Christ to also be a religion (hence your above comment) then I will explain the difference as revealed in the Bible:-

1. We are informed - "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" - in other words despite our best efforts, we will not make it, like swimming from Ireland to New York no matter how well we can swim, we will perish.
Therefore we are all guilty before God and without hope of saving ourselves. Hence religion is hopeless.

2. Christ offers to pay our fine and stand in our place, meaning He offers us the Gift of being saved from the penalty of our rebellion/ sin/ failure - whatever you wish to call it. He acheived the ability to offer us this by suffering and dying at Calvary after He had lived a sinless life and therefore needn't have died at all - ie He laid down His life for you & me.

The Bible puts it this way > "But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners" (Romans 5:8).

If you have any questions on this then please fire away :thumbup:

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I think you'll actually find that all religions are man made to keep the lower classes in check and make them work harder on earth in the hope of a better afterlife. As Marx said, Religion is the opiate of the people. Religion is the drug that is used to control the masses.

I cant decide if you are being serious or ironic, but any intelligent person who believes in religion, is by definition, not that intelligent.

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Originally Posted by cityhammer

I think you'll actually find that all religions are man made to keep the lower classes in check and make them work harder on earth in the hope of a better afterlife. As Marx said, Religion is the opiate of the people. Religion is the drug that is used to control the masses.

I cant decide if you are being serious or ironic, but any intelligent person who believes in religion, is by definition, not that intelligent.

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So only simple people have 'religion' as you put it, yet you currently don't seem to appreciate the point being made here, that what is freely offered is not dead religion at all, but a living relationship?

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Originally Posted by cityhammer

I think you'll actually find that all religions are man made to keep the lower classes in check and make them work harder on earth in the hope of a better afterlife. As Marx said, Religion is the opiate of the people. Religion is the drug that is used to control the masses.

I cant decide if you are being serious or ironic, but any intelligent person who believes in religion, is by definition, not that intelligent.

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On this point, I know many current professors who trust God on a daily basis and for their eternal soul. In fact the man who invented MRI which itself has saved countless lives, believes in the God of the Bible and trusts in Christ.

However, while most of us don't take a great deal of interest in top scientists, here's someone we've all heard of:-

“Put God first in everything you do … Everything that I have is by the grace of God, understand that. It’s a gift … I didn’t always stick with Him, but He stuck with me.” – Denzel Washington

With the switch to miserable weather, dark clouds over the CCS and the immediate future at CCFC, grab yourself a hot drink and listen to someone (mentioned above) who knows what it takes to change things for the better.

Wise words from Denzel Washington >> CLIP :sherlock: