A time when young footballers were trusted.

I’m watching the Big Match Revisited from 79/80 at the moment with the main match being an entertaining First Division game between Palace and Man City - Palace are winning 1-0 thanks to a goal by Ian Walsh and Dave Bennett is playing for Man City.

Anyway, the reason for my starting this thread is that Brian Moore said that eleven of the twenty four players involved were teenagers and I immediately thought of the number of times I’ve read on here and other places that so and so is not ready yet for the senior side at, say, twenty one- what has changed in the past forty or so years to make it okay to have teenagers making up half of your team that doesn’t apply now?

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another big difference would be the length of employment of managers. I'm not sure what the average tenure of a manager was then but I'm guessing 4 or 5 seasons? these days it is slightly under 18 months, so there is very little incentive for managers to bother bringing youth players through.

Perhaps it's because there is a lot more pressure on the modern day footballer to represent the club properly these days and they need time to "grow up".

This could be nonsense and it could just be that the game today is more physically demanding and the body needs time to develop.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

another big difference would be the length of employment of managers. I'm not sure what the average tenure of a manager was then but I'm guessing 4 or 5 seasons? these days it is slightly under 18 months, so there is very little incentive for managers to bother bringing youth players through.

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I think four or five years is too long - I’d say about half of that would be about right.

As for this game, the teams were managed by Terry Venables and Malcolm Allison and both were gone, for different reasons, within a year or so. Venables lasted four years, but Allison just the one.

I’m not sure finance would be a reason for not selecting a youngster these days because if a teenager could establish themselves in the first team, they would get an awful lot of money for him if they decided to sell given the way the market is these days.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think four or five years is too long - I’d say about half of that would be about right.

As for this game, the teams were managed by Terry Venables and Malcolm Allison and both were gone, for different reasons, within a year or so. Venables lasted four years, but Allison just the one.

I’m not sure finance would be a reason for not selecting a youngster these days because if a teenager could establish themselves in the first team, they would get an awful lot of money for him if they decided to sell given the way the market is these days.

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Another goal by an ex City man on this edition - Tim Gilbert for Sunderland.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think four or five years is too long - I’d say about half of that would be about right.

As for this game, the teams were managed by Terry Venables and Malcolm Allison and both were gone, for different reasons, within a year or so. Venables lasted four years, but Allison just the one.

I’m not sure finance would be a reason for not selecting a youngster these days because if a teenager could establish themselves in the first team, they would get an awful lot of money for him if they decided to sell given the way the market is these days.

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I guess there is probably a steeper decline in finances due to relegation these days, and clubs seem to be much more highly leveraged with a huge percentage of income going on wages

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Another goal by an ex City man on this edition - Tim Gilbert for Sunderland.

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I'll be watching that programme tonight. Poor Tim Gilbert died young at just 36 years old.

I think there's more focus on the here and NOW; immediate success NOW. No time to blood youngsters, we have to bring in a proven player for 23 million NOW. Very sad for the youngsters.

modern football

Success , now , today

Money Money Money

Earnie , Ramsey etc ?

But if you are good enough then you are in the team

There must be talent out there in South Wales, on our doorstep in Grangetown, Docks

Rugby has produced Glen Webbe , Steve Ford , Martin Madden , Billy Boston , Mark Ring , David Bishop etc

What are Cardiff City doing about it ?

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I guess there is probably a steeper decline in finances due to relegation these days, and clubs seem to be much more highly leveraged with a huge percentage of income going on wages

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our spending on wages over turnover under Dave Jones was unbelievable

He didn't give youth much of a chance , preferring to bring in high wage earners on short term contracts

Hasselbaink scored a great goal against wolves in the FA Cup but he cost us thousands and I honestly don't think he offered much

Sinclair , ditto

Fowler , ditto

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

our spending on wages over turnover under Dave Jones was unbelievable

He didn't give youth much of a chance , preferring to bring in high wage earners on short term contracts

Hasselbaink scored a great goal against wolves in the FA Cup but he cost us thousands and I honestly don't think he offered much

Sinclair , ditto

Fowler , ditto

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Our wage bill when we went up under Warnock was 55 million. there's no way it got anywhere near that under jones.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Our wage bill when we went up under Warnock was 55 million. there's no way it got anywhere near that under jones.

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it was ten years later though

Although I am not defending high wages , that's what has fecked us in the first place

Years of trying to get into the Premier league paying wages we couldn't afford , then being unable to stay there

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Our wage bill when we went up under Warnock was 55 million. there's no way it got anywhere near that under jones.

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Although during the Dave Jones / Peter Risdale era we brought in a lot of old pros, at the end of their career (on big money), we did see a lot of youngsters come through too.

We had Cameron Jerome, Ledley, Gunter, Blake, Ramsey, Matthews...and previously to that Gabbs, Earnie, Collins...

There was a bit of a purple patch for a brief period and some of the transfer fees enabled us to keep the taxman at bay.

It's worrying that we have not been able to produce a young player of note in recent times, or maybe we have but they have not been given the opportunities.

The risk of blooding youngsters, who might make mistakes, is too high for clubs these days with the amount of money on the line. That attitude has to change though, for clubs like us we are going to need to be able to produce talent we can sell on at some stage to survive.

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Originally Posted by Hometown Unicorn!

Although during the Dave Jones / Peter Risdale era we brought in a lot of old pros, at the end of their career (on big money), we did see a lot of youngsters come through too.

We had Cameron Jerome, Ledley, Gunter, Blake, Ramsey, Matthews...and previously to that Gabbs, Earnie, Collins...

There was a bit of a purple patch for a brief period and some of the transfer fees enabled us to keep the taxman at bay.

It's worrying that we have not been able to produce a young player of note in recent times, or maybe we have but they have not been given the opportunities.

The risk of blooding youngsters, who might make mistakes, is too high for clubs these days with the amount of money on the line. That attitude has to change though, for clubs like us we are going to need to be able to produce talent we can sell on at some stage to survive.

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some clubs seem to manage it still, at every level. I don't think the players born in those areas are likely to be any more talented than any other areas.
last season Middlesbrough fielded 7 or 8 former academy players in one game, and they still have several in the side now.
this season players who first went to Reading's academy have played for at least half of the club's in the division.
whenever we have put players in they've done ok.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Our wage bill when we went up under Warnock was 55 million. there's no way it got anywhere near that under jones.

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The club paid over £20m in promotion bonuses that season.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

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Liverpool were clearly best team over last two years with some amazing youth coming through but all the talk last summer was still about which players they needed to buy to maintain their good run. Liverpool suffered injuries this year that they hadn't previously, Klopp is feeling the pressure and is grumpy towards media, fans are overly critical of youth still learning the game (players are either brilliant or cr*p with nothing in between) and they may or may not make top four at end of the year which has massive financial implications, at least until they can ring fence champions League.

I don't know if money was such an important part to the game back in period OP is talking about but it's certainly driving things now.

Are there any owners/fans/local media out there who would accept not being as high up the table as possible for two years if it meant remaining three years in five year cycle had higher chances of success? Patience seems capped at ten games now which is not good environment for backing younger players who will be more inconsistent.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I’m watching the Big Match Revisited from 79/80 at the moment with the main match being an entertaining First Division game between Palace and Man City - Palace are winning 1-0 thanks to a goal by Ian Walsh and Dave Bennett is playing for Man City.

Anyway, the reason for my starting this thread is that Brian Moore said that eleven of the twenty four players involved were teenagers and I immediately thought of the number of times I’ve read on here and other places that so and so is not ready yet for the senior side at, say, twenty one- what has changed in the past forty or so years to make it okay to have teenagers making up half of your team that doesn’t apply now?

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I think football in 2021 is probably 95% results-orientated. Pragmatism rules. Also 40 yrs ago a manager playing a teenager would probably be there in 2/3 seasons' time to see the benefit of such players coming through and getting better with experience. It's a shame, but we're all really supporting a business nowadays - certainly at the top end..