Pre-season review - agree?

I've watched all of our pre-season games and while I understand many think pre-season performances can be taken with a pinch of salt, I do think it's worth reflecting on progress so far.

It is very worrying that, apart from Bath, we haven't dominated ANY side for any length of time in any of the games. Bath hadn't played a competitive game for six months as their season ended early due to COVID, so you expected them to be rusty after only a few friendlies.

It is shocking to me that playing teams a number of tiers below us that they all look more creative and comfortable on the ball than us.

The lack of pace is startling. While Giles looks quick, the rest of the team seem to be so much slower than the teams we have played. And it's not just about being quick running with the ball, it's the speed of passing, movement off the ball, making runs behind etc.

Apart from when Tomlin is on the pitch we look like we have zero creativity in the central midfield areas. Yesterday we relied on Aiden Flint launching the ball forward and hoping something comes off.

At the back - considering we play with three centre backs and two defensive midfielders, the possession we concede in midfield is staggering and the goals we conceded appalling. When the opposition runs at us we really struggle and we conceded most of our goals from crosses, corners or free kicks.

Lack of pace and creativity in the middle have been a problem for years and successive managers have either never realised it or have been unable to address it.

Mick seems to be sticking his head in the sand about it.

While we have a few players to come back who will make a difference, I can't see them making enough of a difference to address these issues.

I am not hopeful about the new season. We look a bang average boring side who will score plenty from long throws and corners but have little else in our attacking armoury.

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Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird

I've watched all of our pre-season games and while I understand many think pre-season performances can be taken with a pinch of salt, I do think it's worth reflecting on progress so far.

It is very worrying that, apart from Bath, we haven't dominated ANY side for any length of time in any of the games. Bath hadn't played a competitive game for six months as their season ended early due to COVID, so you expected them to be rusty after only a few friendlies.

It is shocking to me that playing teams a number of tiers below us that they all look more creative and comfortable on the ball than us.

The lack of pace is startling. While Giles looks quick, the rest of the team seem to be so much slower than the teams we have played. And it's not just about being quick running with the ball, it's the speed of passing, movement off the ball, making runs behind etc.

Apart from when Tomlin is on the pitch we look like we have zero creativity in the central midfield areas. Yesterday we relied on Aiden Flint launching the ball forward and hoping something comes off.

At the back - considering we play with three centre backs and two defensive midfielders, the possession we concede in midfield is staggering and the goals we conceded appalling. When the opposition runs at us we really struggle and we conceded most of our goals from crosses, corners or free kicks.

Lack of pace and creativity in the middle have been a problem for years and successive managers have either never realised it or have been unable to address it.

Mick seems to be sticking his head in the sand about it.

While we have a few players to come back who will make a difference, I can't see them making enough of a difference to address these issues.

I am not hopeful about the new season. We look a bang average boring side who will score plenty from long throws and corners but have little else in our attacking armoury.

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Have to agree, every game has been played with an intensity of a testimonial game.
This coming week hopefully things will improve as we edge closer to the season, but it is glaringly obvious we are way too short of quality playing behind the strikers.

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Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird

I've watched all of our pre-season games and while I understand many think pre-season performances can be taken with a pinch of salt, I do think it's worth reflecting on progress so far.

It is very worrying that, apart from Bath, we haven't dominated ANY side for any length of time in any of the games. Bath hadn't played a competitive game for six months as their season ended early due to COVID, so you expected them to be rusty after only a few friendlies.

It is shocking to me that playing teams a number of tiers below us that they all look more creative and comfortable on the ball than us.

The lack of pace is startling. While Giles looks quick, the rest of the team seem to be so much slower than the teams we have played. And it's not just about being quick running with the ball, it's the speed of passing, movement off the ball, making runs behind etc.

Apart from when Tomlin is on the pitch we look like we have zero creativity in the central midfield areas. Yesterday we relied on Aiden Flint launching the ball forward and hoping something comes off.

At the back - considering we play with three centre backs and two defensive midfielders, the possession we concede in midfield is staggering and the goals we conceded appalling. When the opposition runs at us we really struggle and we conceded most of our goals from crosses, corners or free kicks.

Lack of pace and creativity in the middle have been a problem for years and successive managers have either never realised it or have been unable to address it.

Mick seems to be sticking his head in the sand about it.

While we have a few players to come back who will make a difference, I can't see them making enough of a difference to address these issues.

I am not hopeful about the new season. We look a bang average boring side who will score plenty from long throws and corners but have little else in our attacking armoury.

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So many supporters express similar views, yet successive managers, clearly don’t think there’s a problem. Sadly Cardiff City do have a playing identity and it is all to do with a style that was in vogue about thirty five years ago - a personal gripe is that we’ve spent so much money in putting together teams that are such a hard watch, it’s almost as if it’s been a deliberate plan to play such boring football.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So many supporters express similar views, yet successive managers, clearly don’t think there’s a problem. Sadly Cardiff City do have a playing identity and it is all to do with a style that was in vogue about thirty five years ago - a personal gripe is that we’ve spent so much money in putting together teams that are such a hard watch, it’s almost as if it’s been a deliberate plan to play such boring football.

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It’s bizarre, isn’t it.

seem to remember the jacks had a bad pre-season last year.
they did pretty well tho:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by C1C9F2C7

seem to remember the jacks had a bad pre-season last year.
they did pretty well tho:thumbup:

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Yeah you can't read too much into pre season. I rather look at the positives, Collins banging them in so hopefully a great compliment to Moore (as it seems like we'll keep him).

I think we have to be realistic, we're going to be in transition for a few seasons, transition to what I don't know.

I'm surprised that you're surprised, we haven't dominated many games for a long time. Even our successes have been largely built on the counter and just being quite effective at what we do. I haven't seen a minute if pre season and its not really a reflection of what is to come, but I think the last 6 years or so is.

It won't be pretty, and if not winning it is generally quite ugly but we have a skill and I don't see us getting a more progressive style under the current owner, hard to argue with the promotions though.

Only hope I have is Tomlin stays fit and hungry in a good way. Maybe Giles and Moore link up well.

But we will be back in the stands, that's something I am looking forward to.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Pre-season is mainly about getting fitness back up and the new lads integrating with the rest of the team IMO.

If City won all their pre-season games 3-0, it could create a complacency in the squad.

I see where you’re coming from but I’m not as worried because it’s just been about getting as many players as many minutes. A lot of these players will be nowhere near the starting eleven when the season starts. Bowen? Patten? Mick said himself after the game it was never going to be Tomlin - Whyte - Collins as our top three vs. Barnsley. They were our three vs. Exeter. Because it’s preseason and he’s seeing what’s what.

As for returning players, two of them were among our best players last season. Morrison and Moore. That will definitely make a difference. My concern is that these injuries are worse than we think. I just want to see our best eleven players together once before passing judgement because right now we haven’t seen anything even close to that, including yesterday.

I think the concern is not about the results, but around the archaic style of football which is no longer effective in the long run.
We are going to be found out (again) against the better teams.

The reason I don't think we'll get promoted this year or be one of the genuine contenders - if you think that there are three/four fighting for two automatic spots and then a group of four/five good enough to fill remaining play-off spots - is because we're still reliant on largely the same midfield and defence who have struggled to control and move the ball.

Pre-season will be forgotten by the time season starts but for me it's all about building towards the season after/whether moves we make now set us up to be one of the genuine contenders for 2022-2023.

We've made some moves I think will do us well going forward (Wintle in, Watters out on loan, pragmatic decisions on Bennett, Hoilett and Bamba), some I'm neutral about (McGuiness) and there are some big decisions about contract extensions to come which will have a telling impact.

Style of play is unlikely to change too much this year and it's largely about how an experienced group help newer, younger faces establish themselves while keeping us safely in this division.

there are CONCERNS

Up until now, the squad have been getting to know each other and getting fitness in their legs. Half of the likely first team have also been missing for one reason or another and the majority of the squads used have been young, inexperienced players. Simple as that. To use terms like very worrying, staggering, appalling, lack of pace, zero creativity etc etc is a total over reaction and frankly ridiculous. People appear to be assuming that we will play exactly the same way right through the season. This is very naive and shows a total lack of understanding about the way football pre season works. It is mainly being pedalled by people who never have a good word to say about anything the manager or players do and who obviously have an agenda against the club. They are so used to swimming around in a morass of negativity about anything Cardiff City, that they now think it is the norm and have convinced themselves that they speak for the masses and are always right. Give it a rest for goodness sake.

I don't agree that McCarthy has his head in the sand. What's he supposed to say? "We'd like to be more progressive but look at some of the cloggers we've got"? He'll know what he's working with.

I wouldn’t care if we got thumped 3-0 each game as long as I could see what the plans and progress was.

I watched the full game against Exeter and the highlights of the others and it’s a case of just play it round and hope something opens up

I’ll pass judgement after the first game but I’m not hopeful

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Originally Posted by Trigger

I'm surprised that you're surprised, we haven't dominated many games for a long time. Even our successes have been largely built on the counter and just being quite effective at what we do. I haven't seen a minute if pre season and its not really a reflection of what is to come, but I think the last 6 years or so is.

It won't be pretty, and if not winning it is generally quite ugly but we have a skill and I don't see us getting a more progressive style under the current owner, hard to argue with the promotions though.

Only hope I have is Tomlin stays fit and hungry in a good way. Maybe Giles and Moore link up well.

But we will be back in the stands, that's something I am looking forward to.

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People always mention the promotions as a positive, which is fair enough of course, but it's not the full picture is it. Our record after we get promoted is uniquely appalling. In fact, it couldn't be worse, we go straight back down and aren't able to build a side capable of taking us straight back up - any fair analysis of the Tan years has to acknowledge both the promotions and the relegations.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Up until now, the squad have been getting to know each other and getting fitness in their legs. Half of the likely first team have also been missing for one reason or another and the majority of the squads used have been young, inexperienced players. Simple as that. To use terms like very worrying, staggering, appalling, lack of pace, zero creativity etc etc is a total over reaction and frankly ridiculous. People appear to be assuming that we will play exactly the same way right through the season. This is very naive and shows a total lack of understanding about the way football pre season works. It is mainly being pedalled by people who never have a good word to say about anything the manager or players do and who obviously have an agenda against the club. They are so used to swimming around in a morass of negativity about anything Cardiff City, that they now think it is the norm and have convinced themselves that they speak for the masses and are always right. Give it a rest for goodness sake.

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Jeez.

The only agenda I have is wanting to see my club be successful on and off the pitch.

As a decent player myself I know all about pre season.

The fact that we don't seem to be progressing football wise is worrying. Pre season results may not matter but so far we have played teams, also in pre season, who are by far inferior teams to us and we have struggled to pass the ball around, create changes and we've conceded very poor goals.

In isolation these things in one pre season would mean nothing.

However, seeing the footballing style being so limited at tye club and successive managers failing to address it is alarming. It's the trend of having low possession, long balls and grafting without much technical approach is the worry.

The kind of long ball / low possession game has proven to bring limited success.... Because we've been the kings of it for years and despite a promotion we've been relegated and are awful to watch.

So these are real concerns that fans have and you know what, fans have the right to express them.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

People always mention the promotions as a positive, which is fair enough of course, but it's not the full picture is it. Our record after we get promoted is uniquely appalling. In fact, it couldn't be worse, we go straight back down and aren't able to build a side capable of taking us straight back up - any fair analysis of the Tan years has to acknowledge both the promotions and the relegations.

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I agree.

The kind of football we play means that we can never be consistent and will get caught out.

Trollope wanted to change the style. Unfortunately we looked like we were heading down and he was gone.

I tend to not be too effected by pre season there is a feel Mick has been mixing it up which does effect fluidity and patterns of play.

The games have been played in extreme heat .

We've played players coming back from injury or potentially on the way out .

Not shaped up with Moore .

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Trollope wanted to change the style. Unfortunately we looked like we were heading down and he was gone.

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Not given time and Club reverted to the in situ style, fans wanted Trollope out and are still not satisfied. It seems the hierarchy at the Club just don’t know which way to go and settle for safety which in the end will prove disastrous.

Not sure we have played our strongest 11 even from those available yet, seems to be a mishmash every game. Still missing a number of players as well.

No alarm bells from pre season well none that were not expected when they gave MM a longer contract. I don't see us dominating any games going forward either.